XJ ( X351 ) 2009 - 2019

Factory trim issues

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Old Nov 24, 2023 | 11:05 AM
  #21  
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I too hope that his original issue is more cosmetic than structural. There's only one way to find out ...
Do a "Post-Purchase Inspection", which will be a lot more thrilling than a PPI, 'cause he's now playing with his money instead of the houses'. In addition to researching his transaction paperwork for written or implied guarantees, he could ask this forum and elsewhere for an independent shop recommendation near Fresno, which he will need anyway. Next, find a good auto body shop, either from personal experience or by asking around at local Cars & Coffee events. This shop could give him a written quote for repairs to his vehicle, as well as looking for Bondo as you suggest. Back to the good indy shop, where they know what to look for in these cars. Code scans, etc.
Next, gather these items, wait a few days, pour an adult beverage and try to come up with a strategy and a plan. I would not approach the selling dealer until completion of the last step.
 
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Old Nov 25, 2023 | 12:59 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse
Looking at my car, I don't think the missing seal and the misaligned seal are a 100% sign of accident or damage repair to the panels. It's possible something broke in the trunk with the lifting mechanism that caused them to remove that panel for repair. And maybe the other seal went missing somehow in a separate issue, such as the small glass getting broken by a rock or who knows. I would definitely get a good paint thickness meter to see if there is evidence of repaint before approaching the dealer.
The triangle window seal is not flush with the C-pillar because the window is not pulled in enough, the way it is installed leaves a slight gap, almost imperceptible unless you really try to see. You can push on the window and it wiggles, which it should not. The driver side window is pulled in tightly, the seal is very tight and the window will not wiggle in place. I will take to a body shop and see what they say about it. If it has been repaired, the paint match is incredibly good and the quarter panel gaps are perfect all around, light fittings etc. are perfect. Very hard to know.
 
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Old Nov 25, 2023 | 02:04 PM
  #23  
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A CarFax report is not worth the paper it's printed on. Read their Terms of Use:
CarFax Term of Use

Similarly, you can't rely on anything a car salesperson tells you. Always get it in writing .

You can not rely on CarFax to buy a car. But you can rely on CarFax to not buy a clunker.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2024 | 03:02 AM
  #24  
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I've talked to a couple of body shops who say I need a lawyer, and here is what a legal website states:

Lemon Law and automobile fraud aren’t a side job for me. My firm specializes in helping consumers who have been sold a damaged or defective automobile. When you buy a car, truck or other vehicle from a dealership, you have a legal right to expect that the vehicle will be in good working order and safe for your family. If not, laws require a dealer or manufacturer to repair, replace or buy back the defective vehicle- whether you bought it new or previously owned. I will fight hard to make sure justice is served, your rights are protected, and that you don’t settle for less than you deserve.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2024 | 03:05 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Baltobernie
I'm not a lawyer either. The car you bought had one of these on the drivers side windw. What does yours say?


That is all moot because superseded by state law. Your information is not credible here.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2024 | 06:06 AM
  #26  
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If that BUYERS GUIDE is checked "AS IS - NO DEALER WARRANTY", do you have absolutely no recourse whatsoever against that dealer? The answer depends on the laws of the state in which that sale occurred. Here's the law in Connecticut:

"Ordinarily, when a car dealership sells a car, there is an “implied warranty of merchantability”. This warranty is called an “implied” warranty because it arises under the law even without the dealer doing anything to give the consumer the warranty rights. Under the implied warranty, the dealership is responsible to cure any defects that would make the car “unmerchantable”. Generally, that means that the car has to be fit for the purpose for which cars are ordinarily used, i.e., safe transportation on public roadways. To be merchantable, the car also has to be in a condition that it would pass in the auto trade without objection. So, a car with a defective transmission or with a nasty oil leak will probably not be merchantable. The laws in most states permit car dealerships to sell cars “As Is”, which means that it is sold without any warranty, including the implied warranty of merchantability. But, sometimes a consumer has rights even when a dealer is claiming an “As Is” sale. Here are some examples of circumstances when a dealer might be responsible to make repairs. 1) When state law requires that a warranty be provided. Many states require that cars meeting certain criteria be sold with a minimum warranty. In Connecticut, cars that are less than six model years old that are sold for more than $5,000 must be “mechanically operational and sound” for 60 days or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first If the car cost less than $5,000 but more than $3,000, then the warranty is for 30 days or 1,500 miles. If the car has mechanical issues during that period, then the dealership is required to repair it – but the consumer must bring the car to the dealer. 2) When the Vehicle is sold with an extended warranty plan. When a consumer enters into a service contract with a dealership, then the dealer is not permitted to sell a car “As Is.” Sometimes, the may or may not be aware that they bought a warranty, because auto dealers have been known to add these contracts without disclosing them. In any event, if the consumer enters into a warranty plan with the dealer at the time of sale or within 90 days of the purchase, the dealer cannot rely on a claim that the vehicle was sold “as-is”. In such a case, the dealer is responsible at least for the implied warranties, that is, that the Vehicle is fit for its ordinary purposes and conforms to its description. Vehicles experience significant mechanical defects often do not comply with implied warranties. 3) When the dealership provides a 50/50 warranty. One type of service plan that many dealers give to a consumer is a 50/50 plan, where the consumer has to pay only half the cost of labor and half the cost of parts to repair the car. But, if the dealer gives a 50/50 warranty, that means that the implied warranty of merchantability is in effect, and the dealer is responsible for the FULL cost of repairs that are necessary to make the car merchantable. 4) When the defects immediately impact the Vehicle’s safety. Connecticut law, like most states, provides for a safety exception. Disclaimers of warranty do not apply to the requirement that Connecticut dealerships sell cars that are roadworthy. Thus, if a dealer sells a consumer a vehicle with defects that make the vehicle unsafe for driving (such as defective brakes, bald tires, rotted frame, or vehicle shuts down at highway speeds), the dealership may be responsible for the cost of repairs. 5) When there is fraud. Connecticut law also provides for an exception when dealers lies about the vehicle’s condition. For example, if a consumer decides to purchase a car on an “as-is” basis after the dealer tells him or her that the Vehicle is in great condition, or that certain defects have been or will be repaired prior to delivery, the disclaimer of warranties will not apply. Dealers cannot hide behind the “As Is” disclaimer after they have misrepresented the vehicle’s condition or falsely promised that it will make necessary repairs. Proving these claims can be tough, though, so it is always best to get all promises in writing. 6) When a Buyers Guide provides there is a warranty. Both federal and Connecticut laws require all used vehicles to be sold with a document called a “Buyers Guide” affixed to the window or windshield of the vehicle. The Buyers Guide, an example of which is pictured below, must inform the consumer whether a warranty is provided and with the basic terms of any warranty. Used Car Buyer’s Guide The Buyer’s Guide is considered to be part of the contract, so if it provides that the car is subject to a warranty, then the dealership is stuck with the warranty If no warranty is provided, the guide must specify that the vehicle is sold “as-is”. Under the law, only the consumer may remove the Buyers Guide from the Vehicle window. If a dealer sells a vehicle to a consumer without the guide, the dealer may be prohibited from disclaiming the implied warranty of merchantability. CONCLUSION Many consumers mistakenly believe that there is nothing they can do after purchasing a lemon car on an as-is basis. However, given the number of exceptions to “as-is” sales, many times the dealer may be responsible for repairs. Consumers that purchase vehicles on an “as-is” basis should review their purchase paperwork carefully and should contact a consumer attorney if they experience problems with their vehicles; they may have more options than they think. They may be able to sue for the cost of repairs, or they may even be able to cancel the sale and get their money back. Federal law provides that the dealership may even be responsible for the consumer’s attorney’s fees!

https://www.consumerlawgroup.com/blo...y-disclaimers/

The above is a solicitation for business by the law firm that posted it on the Internet. Lawyers don't work for free, so know that the cost to pursue a claim against a used car dealer might not make financial sense if that dealer has insufficient assets.
 

Last edited by Stuart S; Jan 21, 2024 at 06:11 AM.
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Old Jan 21, 2024 | 02:39 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by safulop
That is all moot because superseded by state law. Your information is not credible here.
Maybe stop looking for legal advice on the Internet, and talk with an attorney admitted to the California bar. Not an attorney advertising as a "specialist" in motor vehicle law, but someone arms-length with your situation.

When the FTC announced revisions to the Used Motor Vehicle Trade Regulation Rule in 2016, you can be sure that NADA and NIADA attorneys (and their lobbyists) went over it with a fine-tooth comb. The revised Rule resulted in the window sticker which I posted above. It is almost elegant in wording, with no ambiguity or legalese.

If you checked the "As Is" box on this form, your attorney must convince the judge or jury that the JLR dealer defrauded you. You're going to have to prove that the selling dealer knowingly sold you a car that had serious issues. If it ever gets to court, the dealer will undoubtedly produce the Buyers Guide that you signed and their pre-delivery form detailing all the items they inspected and measured on this car, and claim that: (1.) The issues are cosmetic and you should have called them out and negotiated them before purchase, or (2.) All we did was inspect, service and detail the car. Anything that occurred during previous owners is unknown to us, or (3.) You bought the car three months ago. How do we know, Your Honor, that these issues were even present at the time of sale?

Ask your attorney neighbor, friend or relative to explain "deference" as a legal term. They will tell you that, with few exceptions, Federal law trumps State law. You'd have to convince the judge that your transaction is an exception the the Buyers Guide. Lastly, should you decide to hire an attorney, for goodness' sake read everything he/she puts in front of you before signing anything!

ps Any way to discover and contact the previous owner? If they sold or traded this car with damage and the dealer fixed it, you've got a chance.
 
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Old Jan 22, 2024 | 09:37 AM
  #28  
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Since it's a trim issue I am not sure this would qualify for a lemon or buy back? There is no safety problems and the car drives fine. I agree they should fix those two trim items but it is a somewhat minor issue.
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Old Mar 12, 2024 | 04:33 PM
  #29  
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Default Update: dealer fixed issues, which were shown to be minor

OK, after much conversation the dealership said they didn't believe what my "expert" bodyshop here had said about the car being in a wreck and the quarter panel replaced, so they asked me to bring it up to Sacramento so their own bodyshop could evaluate. They decided that in fact, the panel had never been replaced but that trim had been removed in order to paint it at some point (scratches, got keyed, perhaps?) and that trim had either been lost or damaged. In fact, the quarter panel C-pillar joint does have a half-inch gap normally, which is smoothed over by that rubber piece you see there that extends beneath the quarter-glass. They replaced that trim, and also repaired the quarter-glass trim with a new molding because it had been broken by whoever took it apart before.

If you compare the picture here with the first one I posted you can see it is now all repaired. This was all free of charge, so they did feel responsible for selling a car with this type of flaw. Kudos to Niello JLR Sacramento and many thanks for being so decent. Moreover I no longer trust my local shop that went crazy with all the wild theories about the damage to the car, they clearly didn't understand how these cars are assembled.


 
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Old Mar 12, 2024 | 04:56 PM
  #30  
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safulop,

Thanks for the follow up. So often these type of threads end without a resolution.

wombat
 
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Old Mar 13, 2024 | 10:02 AM
  #31  
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That looks WAY better! Shame the local place got all confused but I think your right in that the Aluminum body XJ is a rare beast and few have any experience with these sort of repairs.
Glad to hear Jaguar fixed it and helped you out too. We have many bad dealer stories and not many good ones!
Plus your car has not been wrecked as you had feared.
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Old Mar 13, 2024 | 01:49 PM
  #32  
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Looking good for me too now. Enjoy the car.
 
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