I experienced a fatal blow to my 2014 XJL v 8 Supercharged when the coolant pipe burst spewing cooltant all over the engine ...which led to a severe overheating.

I had my baby towed to the dealer where they fixed the coolant pipe. Handed me a $4,000 bill. And said that the car will not run (but the coolant pipe is fixed). There next possible solution was to resurface the heads for $10k but no guarantees.

So before truly scrapping my all time favorite baby, I tried one last fix. Everything was going fine... Until I shut the car off after running it for 30 minutes. Then it would not start.

It began as a CRANK - NO START. But, I pushed it and pushed it trying to get it started. Certainly the battery had become low. Then one start sounded a bit different and then I found myself in a NO CRANK-NO START situation.

I have attempted to jump start it from the F-Pace. Nothing. Just hit the start button and hear the solenoid "CLICK".
I bought a battery charger....charged it overnight+. Nothing.
Used the engine starter on the batter charger..nothing.
Check all the fuses and relays in the car, they all look fine.
Check battery connections all look fine.
Remove the negative battery connector from the terminal - left over night...nothing.

I still, I get the "click".

Here is my current dilemma: The car is in my garage and no way to get it up on ramps. I have been searching the internet for hours upon hours...and find nothing in the way of an engine diagram to show me the starter location. All the parts diagrams are just the starter assembly. The 8669 pages of the 2014 service manual has no diagram of the starter.

I know that some members on this forum have said that maybe if I bumped the starter it may kick over. But, I am so confused as to where it is that I go back and forth if it is on the passenger side or the drivers side. I believe it to be on the engine towards the bottom passenger side behind the alternator. Though I go back and forth as to which side the alternator is on because it looks a little bit like the compressor.

I feel that if I could confirm the location, I might stand a chance. Any guidance would be so very appreciated and would save me the untold hours search "2014 Jaguar XJL Supercharged X351 engine diagram starter repair". I see now that I should have paid more attention to my dad when he used to work on cars and build his hot rods.

Again thank you!

I feel like a fool that I can not find this anywhere. It is truly a best kept secret. If I had not seen starters available for purchase, I would believe that it doesn't even have a starter!!

UGH stranded.

 

On the home page for this Forum, in the stickies you will an item regarding the X351 shop manual which you can down load at no cost. The manual is quite voluminous but you should be able to locate where the starter is by searching the manual. Good luck!!

 

I think the starter motor "cooked". Its vise to let the starter cool down a while, because they are not actually made for long and continous usage.
For AJ133 component locations this kind of videos are gold

 

Ralphwg-

Thank you for your reply. I found the manual and reviewed it more than twice all 8669 pages. Nothing that shows the starter location. Only a brief reference to "starter" in codes and when looking at the electrical diagrams. I was shocked honestly. I scoured the internet to see what I could find different for my car, but nothing. The manual out in the wild is the very same that someone was kind enough to make available in this forum.

The hunt continues!

 

Vasara:

I actually found this video too. And I thought that for sure it would be on the tear down. BUT, no starter, or mention of a starter, or even a passing reference or side comment such as "if there was a starter it would be mounted her..." But, it was interesting to watch the complete tear down. Now, that was pretty cool.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen the starter exactly there. Obviously, having the big plastic undertray off makes it much easier to spot. Get the car up on jack stands, and you should be able to crawl under without ramps.

BTW, welcome to the forum, fellow Texan.

 

yea, that's where it is.

 

There are no starter motor present on the video, but clear noticeble mounting for starter are visible exsample the time 32:42-> (round opening on lower part of the engine, flywheel end)
Typically starters are removed on thse videos, because the transmissions are taken out, but ofcource you can see the mounting. (in most cases, round hole on engine "skirt".

 

I replaced the starter ….myself ( which I consider a huge success) and we crank again. This time only trying a few times a day. Back to a crank - no start. I guess I will start looking at cylinder wash solutions!

I was able to check the connections at the starter motor to make certain that I did not have a voltage drop. I bumped the starter without luck and found all the fuses to be in good and working order.

You guys are great!!! I am hell bound to get it running again. At least 10,000 more miles.

she almost turned over this morning. But, I know my answer is out here just got to unearth it!

THANKS AGAIN!!! You all are ROCK*STARS!

I am one happy Jaguar owner today!

 

Does it turn over by hand? I burned up my starter motor trying to start my XJ just once when my motor seized.

 

Brett, are you getting a strong smell of gas from the car when you attempt to start it? I had a similar experience when I had my water pump fail. I gave the car to a local mechanic down in Gulf Shores AL because I was on travel and the nearest Jaguar dealership was 90 miles away. Figured a water pump would not be that difficult and took a chance. Well, they replaced the water pump, but, handed me back a car that would not start/run like hell if it did. To get the car to start, I had to press on the gas pedal pretty far and then feather the pedal to keep the car running. I only ran it long enough to get it on/off of the trailer I rented. After much work and replacement of parts (based on error codes), it turned out I had a fuel injector that had failed. I suspect that the shop that did the repair got something into the fuel system via the line that runs across the top of the motor, but I didn't have anything to prove it. You can also get an idea of a failed fuel injector as you will get fuel washing of the cylinder and this will eventually leak into the oil system. So, if you pull the oil cap off of the top of the engine and get a strong fuel smell, that would be a good indication.

So, I would say to try and feather the throttle to get the car to start and hopefully you can throw a code saying which cylinder is having issues to make finding the troublesome fuel injector easier to find (if that is the case for you). If you can get the engine up and running, hopefully you will get atleast some code to help narrow down what is the issue.

 

I am confused?Is the engine turning over and NOT starting or is the engine NOT turning over?
You mentioned it's cranking but then you said it almost turned over today?

If you think the car might be flooded if you push the gas pedal to the floor when cranking the fuel injectors will be turned off.
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What is the fuel pressure whilst the starter motor is rotating the engine? It should be around 140 to 150 bar.

 

Thanks, NBCat, for weighing in.

In the bad old days you needed fuel, air and a point of ignition....Now we need all of off the previous and a bunch of sensors, computers and check systems.

I'm for the latter.
Does anybody really hanky after landlines or flip phones?

wombat

 

The car started and was able to travel a few miles. I started it daily working in my head gasket sealant (I know… but this is the last ditch chance). If it works, and I get 10,000 more miles… that will last me 10 more years. So, after starting initially and heating up to open thermostat… the white smoke all but cleared up. Temperatures held well. No overheating issues. Then one day I went to start and it did not start of first try and it was back to all the cranking tricks.

I bought the OBD scanner and noted codes related to Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 high. I purchased a replacement camshaft sensor and replaced it. No more camshaft codes. Now, cranks and has that skip like it is going to start. Stronger now with the codes gone. I have tried all the starting methods I could find.

1 press accelerator pedal to floor and slowly release.
2 lightly press the accelerator and try start once you hear then fuel pump.
3. Press accelerator midway and try starting.
4 remove fuse for fuel pump. Crank several times and replace.
5. several cranks with the Jaguar’s system handling things.
6. the frustrated pump thinking that will help.
7. remove the negative battery cable overnight.
8. the battery is on a charger
9. have tried several times with jumper cables from my F-pace.

I am doing this routine once a day generally.

today is the first day that I did not generate any codes after replacing the camshaft sensor.

oddly, coolant seems to be disappearing. Just in cranking! I keep adding it when I get the message.

the new skipping or stutter when cranking seems hopeful.

I also think that the Bar leaks Carbon fiber head Gasket Repair is working as evident from the near elimination of smoke and all the lights going off. I know that there may need to be several thermal cycles for all leaks to seal.

As I may have already mentioned or perhaps you all have figured it out, but this disaster results from the failure of a coolant transfer pipe that is a known issue to JLR. It is a product defect. Acknowledge by JLR by there development of a part to fix the issue. Apparently, there is a technical bulletin to offer this fix UPON CUSTOMER COMPLAINT. This Should have been a recall, especially as the fix is a 70.00 part and the potential damage is the damage to the engine that results in complete loss of the car. So disappointed in my Jaguar folks. I am a true blue fan of Jaguar. I have owned an x type and S type when I was younger. Now, I have the xj l and a F Pace. And, I still am lookinf at Jaguar for future cars should I fail in my efforts with the xj. I am beyond disappointed but I am not giving up!

That’s the update from Galveston Texas.

Thank you all for the advice and wise counsel! Every input has value and is helping me move forward here!

Thank You!!!!!’

 

How long did you keep driving the car when it over heated?
We have found that an all Aluminum engine can't stand being over heated. At the first sign of steam or over heating the engine must be shut down and the car towed. Too many keep driving because it's not too bad yet or I just drove to the next exit or home solwly.

Plus the temperature gauge is made to be very lazy and unresponsive to prevent customers from bringing in cars because the temperature gauge moved around. Many people including me use a cheap scanner to read the actual coolant temperature.

Once over heated it's usually the end because not only do the heads warp but even the block warps. Now we do have several real top notch experts that regularly rebuild these engines after similar disasters as you had. So it sometimes can be repaired but it's a big job!

Also we now have lifetime Aluminum cooling pipes to replace the failure prone plastic stuff at the front of the engine. A GREAT addition to any 3.0L and 5.0L SC engine for sure.

All cars suffer from these terrible plastic cooling parts so it's all over. Just a sign of the times.
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A strange note on this, I was planning on replacing both my range rover and xj cooling systems with the aluminum parts.

My Range Rover (2014 V8 SC) has the obvious plastic pipe up top, and a water pump replacement in it's carfax.

My XJ (2011 V8 SC), much to my surprise, has an aluminum pipe up top! And is still on the original water pump at 67k miles.

I've never seen or heard of anyone else having this, and not that I don't have other plastic parts in the cooling system, but I was very surprised to see this- maybe not all XJs suffer from this?

 

Yes I answered you on a different thread but yes your right. Originally the XJ had the 2 front cooling pipes in Aluminum BUT they had a coupler between them that failed also. So Jaguar redesigned the pipes removing the so called "crook" neck part but at the same time made the decision to go to crappy plastic and they obsoleted the original Aluminum pipes completely.

Here is a picture from the forum showing the old original style Aluminum "Y" pipe. Note the angle at the top of the "Y".





Here is the current configuration.




They don't interchange and the old stuff is NLA from Jaguar.

Here is a great thread with pictures that will really help too (That's where I stole the picture I posted!). Note the adapter at the top of the "Y" pipe is Aluminum (I in error have posted this part was plastic) but the O-rings fail causing leaks.
5.0L SC Water Pump Change
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Well at least if the coupler fails, it'll be a slow leak and identifiable, rather than the seams of a plastic pipe bursting and dumping all your coolant.

 

Another part that can fail is the coupler from the back of the water pump to the oil cooler, They are now made from aluminium as well to eliminate one more plastic part.