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OEM brakes durability, should I just upgrade to something else?

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OEM brakes durability, should I just upgrade to something else?

 
  #1  
Old 05-21-2016, 10:15 AM
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Default OEM brakes durability, should I just upgrade to something else?

I bought my 2012 XJ supercharged a little over a year ago CPO, supposedly had new brakes at the time.

I have put 15,000 highway miles on it and just found out I need new front pads and rotors, cost of $1000 installed at dealer.

What is the general experience for how long brakes are supposed to last? For $1000 possibly I could get some after market pads and rotors that would last longer or the same and be of higher performance or spend some more money on a better option?

I'm new to jag and to this forum so thanks in advance. I didn't find this topic when I searched so sorry in advance if this has been asked and answered.
 
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:14 PM
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1000$ for front brakes is a rip off. OEM brake pads cost 40$, rotors max 150$. You can replace yourself easily or get it done in the garage for another 50$. Or you can get drilled/slotted performance rotors for 400-500$. 1k is just unbelievably pricy for some crappy oem stuff.
 
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Old 05-21-2016, 04:39 PM
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At 15k I seriously doubt that you need new rotors, unless they are warped. I have 59k on my 2013 SuperSport and get @18k out of the front pads and can replace the pads twice before the rotor is below the minimum thickness that is stamped in the rim of the rotor. I have stuck with OEM as the matchup of the components has given me super braking. A front pad replacement runs @ $380 at my dealer. Last time I did front brakes and rotors it cost $866.85 add $100 (parts and labor) for sensor and replacement if needed. Hope this helps. Remember that the supercharged XJs have bigger brakes than the V6s and Diesels.
 
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Old 05-22-2016, 12:15 AM
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Robert,

I think you misinterpreted what the OP stated. He said that he bought his CPO 2012 XJ SC over a year ago and has put 15K miles on it, but didn't say what the mileage was when he bought that vehicle. In 2015, a 2012 could have had 45,000 miles or more on the odometer (average 15k miles/year), so at 60K miles it wouldn't be unreasonable if it needed a second brake job. If the dealer did a brake job to CPO the car and resurfaced the rotors (assuming this was the second brake job) instead of replacing them, there wouldn't be enough thickness left now to resurface them a third time.

His dealer's estimate and your cost are comparable. Although Serlock said can get the OEM parts really cheap, he didn't include the cost to ship them to the USA from Lithuania. Rotors are heavy. And, as you pointed out, I suspect they're not the right parts for the larger XJ SC brakes, which are more expensive.

Stuart
 
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Old 05-22-2016, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Stuart S View Post
Robert,

I think you misinterpreted what the OP stated. He said that he bought his CPO 2012 XJ SC over a year ago and has put 15K miles on it, but didn't say what the mileage was when he bought that vehicle. In 2015, a 2012 could have had 45,000 miles or more on the odometer (average 15k miles/year), so at 60K miles it wouldn't be unreasonable if it needed a second brake job. If the dealer did a brake job to CPO the car and resurfaced the rotors (assuming this was the second brake job) instead of replacing them, there wouldn't be enough thickness left now to resurface them a third time.

His dealer's estimate and your cost are comparable. Although Serlock said can get the OEM parts really cheap, he didn't include the cost to ship them to the USA from Lithuania. Rotors are heavy. And, as you pointed out, I suspect they're not the right parts for the larger XJ SC brakes, which are more expensive.

Stuart
To clarify the vehicle had 34000 miles, now 49,000. I was told it had "new brakes" put on as part of the certification process. The dealer told me now that they change the rotors each time the pads are changed on these cars. Therefore I assumed that it had new rotors too.


So from the comments so far it seems that 15-20k on pads is expected. Rotors should last 60k.
 
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Old 05-22-2016, 02:58 PM
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OK the Rotor replacement based on the mileage may be ok, but I would have the dealer verify the disk thickness. This crap about replacing rotors every time pads are replaced is dealer 'packing" IMHO. I am on my second set of pads on the current rotors as my tech measured the rotor thickness this last time I needed brakes and determined from the stamped minimum thickness on the rotor that there was enough meat to just replace pads. I'll add to this that I ran my XJ last weekend at WannaGoFast in Clayton GA and got up to 140mph before climbing onto the brakes to stop by the end of the runway and have no warpage or shimmy.

@Stuart , Thanks for the clarification.
 

Last edited by XJsss; 05-23-2016 at 08:15 AM.
  #7  
Old 05-22-2016, 07:50 PM
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It's standard Jag dealer policy to replace brake pads and rotors every time. The cars are pretty hard on the rotors. That said most owners who try say they can get 2x pads per set of rotors. As others have said, you should have the rotors measured as there is a quoted min thickness. On the SC XJ I believe it's 30mm thick new and something like 27mm min but you'll need to look it up to be sure. If so, as long as you are above 28.5 you should be fine for a second set of pads.
15k miles sounds pretty common to me for a brake job - the OEM pads are quite soft which gives great braking performance but eats the pads (hence the dust on the wheels...)

If I were you I'd go for aftermarket high quality rotors and ceramic pads - still only about half the OEM part cost at the dealer and have a reputable Indy shop swap them over (or do it yourself) - they are quite straightforward. I'd say you could get front pads and rotors done for around $500 - half the dealer price. And if just pads I'd say $250-300
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
It's standard Jag dealer policy to replace brake pads and rotors every time. The cars are pretty hard on the rotors. ...
I doubt that this "standard Jag dealer policy" exists. Perhaps that's what your service writer told you, but I doubt that you'll find a document from Jaguar North America that requires rotors to be replaced with every brake job and forbids them to be resurfaced even if they exceed the minimum required thicknesses and other specs. Your dealer wants to make more money and have no problems with "comebacks".

My 2009 XKR Portfolio has the Alcon Performance Brake system. Those 15" front rotors are very expensive and at my request, my Jag dealer replaced the pads at 30,000 miles without resurfacing or replacing the rotors. The tech inspected the rotors and agreed to do it. This was the first brake job, and turned out perfect, no pulsating, pulling to one side, or noise. Resurfacing or replacing rotors isn't always necessary.

In my experience, Jaguars are not any harder on rotors than any other brand. It's the driver that makes the difference.
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
On the SC XJ I believe it's 30mm thick new and something like 27mm min but you'll need to look it up to be sure. If so, as long as you are above 28.5 you should be fine for a second set of pads.
If that's how dealers or indys are deciding when to replace rotors, no wonder they replace them with every set of pads. The min. thickness on the rotor is the minimum acceptable thickness for re-entry into service.

A service person would have no way of knowing the original thickness of a given rotor, nor how many sets of pads have already been on it. Therefore it would be impossible to calculate how many more sets of pads could be installed before dropping below the min. dimension.


A rotor found to be at the min. thickness has more than sufficient material to last another set of pads.
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Stuart S View Post
This was the first brake job, and turned out perfect, no pulsating, pulling to one side, or noise. Resurfacing or replacing rotors isn't always necessary.
Resurfacing rotors seems to be a practice unique to North America. Almost unheard of elsewhere. There's no need or justification in doing it 99% of the time and certainly should not be routine practice.
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:05 PM
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My dealer does not do resurfacing, in fact, they have no equipment for rotor resurfacing. As i said earlier there is a minimum thickness stamped not cast in the rotor edge that states minimum thickness. Any reputable dealer should be willing to show you the measurement using a micrometer and the minimum thickness stamp. Or you can let them do the work, but ask for the old parts before authorizing the work and then they will have to give the old rotors and pads to you so you can verify if they ripped you off.
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart S
I doubt that this "standard Jag dealer policy" exists. Perhaps that's what your service writer told you, but I doubt that you'll find a document from Jaguar North America that requires rotors to be replaced with every brake job and forbids them to be resurfaced even if they exceed the minimum required thicknesses and other specs. Your dealer wants to make more money and have no problems with "comebacks".
Agreed - it may not be a formal rule - by policy I meant simply that it appears to be the standard practice at Jag dealers. Happy to be proved wrong, but I'd be surprised if many people here have had their pads replaced by the dealer without them trying to do the rotors too. Maybe to avoid comeback, maybe that the rotors seem to wear fast. Maybe there is a Jag master tech on here who can educate us?

In my experience they seem to wear quite quickly relative to pads - on previous cars I've got at least 2-3 pads to a rotor, with the Jag it seems to be 1-2.

The right answer is to measure as it clearly varies by driving conditions, driver, pad type etc
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikey
If that's how dealers or indys are deciding when to replace rotors, no wonder they replace them with every set of pads. The min. thickness on the rotor is the minimum acceptable thickness for re-entry into service.
Hi Mikey - that's a very interesting question. I understood that min thickness was for safe usage. I just checked online the specs for a couple of rotor manufacturers to see, and they both very explicitly define the min thickness that they stamp on the rotor as min acceptable for usage, not the min for pad replacement. Your argument about the mechanic not knowing the rotor's past is fair - but it's also true that the rotor manufacturer doesn't know what type of pad you will use and how hard you drive on the rotors so in the same way they would be guessing at a min replacement level.

Maybe it's just common practice to interpret it as a min replacement thickness (and I'm sure there is a very large safety margin) but that doesn't seem to be the intent as far as I can tell.
 
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
I just checked online the specs for a couple of rotor manufacturers to see, and they both very explicitly define the min thickness that they stamp on the rotor as min acceptable for usage, not the min for pad replacement.
The phrase 'min acceptable for usage' is exactly what I'm saying too. If the brakes are being serviced for any reason, and a rotor is found to be at (or above) the min. dimensions it is acceptable for re-use. The manufacturer has already built in an allowance for further wear once the rotor goes back into service.

The typical industry phrasing for this is:

"If a rotor is worn down to the minimum thickness specification, or cannot be resurfaced without exceeding the dimension, it must be replaced."

or

"If after machining the brake disc measures on or below the minimum thickness specified by the vehicle manufacturer, the brake disc shall be replaced."

No mention of minimum thickness + what will be lost with the next set of pads. In other words there is no expectation that a service person would add his own fudge factor on top of this, nor would any two mechanics likely agree on what's acceptable as there's no credible information at hand to base their decision upon.

-The original rotor thickness is unknown as it is not inscribed on the rotor, nor is it standardized

-The number of previous pad sets would likely be unknown, nor their type.

As such, it is impossible to calculate how much material each set of pads removed which means it is impossible to know is how much material the next set of pads will remove.

There's dozens if not hundreds of components on vehicles that use the above method when deciding go/no go for re-entry into service. The aviation industry (my background) uses this too.
 

Last edited by Mikey; 05-23-2016 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:44 AM
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Maybe the bottom line is does your dealer employ technicians or parts changers
 
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:10 AM
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And which makes them more money...
 
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:27 AM
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can someone suggest the correct part numbers for brake pads (and what else do I need?) for my 2013 xjl awd?
Amazon has good prices but... they send out wrong parts. I ordered pads for my 2012 xF and the mechanic pulled the pads.. and showed me that amazon were different/wrong! Even the box on the new pads said 2010-2011 xj.. but they shipped anyway.. not amazon.. but some seller on amazon..

Can someone post links for good brake pads, rotors etc?
Akebono?
thanks
 
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:58 PM
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Default New Pad/ rotor advice

Hi all,

I am planning my first DIY brake job soon. I figure Iíll start with the fronts as there is no e-brake to deal with. Jaguar pads and rotors are very expensive (btw I have the S/C variety with performance brakes, 380mm). Thinking of trying a EBC premium rotor with Red Stuff pads. They run < $500 for pads and rotors compared to ~ $1000 for the Jaguar parts.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Is there a better way to go?

Also do I need to buy any other parts to complete the brake job? Thanks in advance!

 
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:05 PM
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I've had good luck with R1 Concepts drilled rotors and OEM style Pagid pads. You'll also need the Brake Pad Wear Sensor (one on driver's side front and one on passenger side rear).
 
  #20  
Old 12-05-2018, 04:40 PM
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They are very easy BUT have you done brakes before? You know how to retract the caliper piston? The fronts are easy because a C-clamp will work.
Are you sure you need rotor's?
See the above posts. I don't change them until needed. Same with the wear sensors because I change pads before I hear noise.

Did all 4 wheels on my 2014 XJR for about $200+ just pads. Used Porterfield CF/Kevlar pads for dusting reasons.
I can't find ceramics and really would like to find some Akebono's.
Had those for almost 70K miles on my old 2005 S Type R.
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Last edited by clubairth1; 12-05-2018 at 04:43 PM.

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