Greetings! I encountered a new one today and wanted to see what you recommend. I experienced the following code on the way into work this morning: P0016 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A.

Am I right in assuming this is the dreaded timing chain tensioners? I was hoping the 2013 3.0SC XJ had the more robust tensioners, but I am past 158k miles without a timing chain replacement…

I found a new shop locally that works on Jaguar, and I know that the timing chain is a big job for amateur me…let me know!

Cheers!

 

Before having any work done, begin with the basics. DTCs having a prefix of 'U' are generally a communication issue across the CAN, which is often caused by either a poor connection or low available voltage. Many random DTCs and instrument cluster warnings are often the result of low voltage.

With the ignition in the OFF position for at least 30 minutes, use a voltmeter to determine the available voltage across the battery terminals. The voltmeter should indicate at least 12.6 volts, if not, charge the battery for five hours at 2 to 5 amps and retest. If the voltmeter still shows less than 12.6 volts, the battery is suspect and should be replaced prior to any further diagnostic or repair work.

 

Thanks, NBCat! The U0447 Gateway A code is ever-present for me since I opted to disconnect the start-stop battery ages ago. I am concerned with the P0016 code that showed up today. Thanks for your advice!

 

Yep, that U0447 code is permanent once you disconnect or remove the secondary battery and does not necessarily mean your main battery is faulty or low on charge.

 

Thanks to clubairth1 for his message below:

Good Morning!
How is the car driving besides the check engine light? Down on power?
Does the engine have any start up rattles?
Have you checked the chain for looseness by going thru the oil fill port using a small 90 degree angle steel pick?

Since the crankshaft sensor is cheap I would replace that before I suspected timing stuff. This code points to a number of things and your right about timing chains and VVT's. Also consider the camshaft sensor. Again because these are fairly cheap and do not require any engine disassembly. Plus with 158K miles I don't think you would be wrong to change both of them before going any further.

Have the codes been cleared and they do come back?
What oil and change interval have you been using?
Jaguar as always says check for frayed and/or damaged wires but that's just boiler plate as I have never found any bad wiring.
And the stupid standard suggestion I always ask. What does the battery read after the car has sat all night?

My response:
Thanks and good morning to you! I think I’ll look up the sensors for purchase and the manual lookup for replacement. If you’ve done this successfully please point the way!

Cheers!

To answer your questions:
1) Battery voltage measures 12.7V after sitting.

2) Oil changes every 6k miles with Castrol Edge High Mileage. Oil fill level right in the middle of OK.

3) CEL RESET: I initially reset the CEL, and it returned during the next drive. I tried resetting again this morning. Now I’m getting the below codes: P0016 (Crankshaft-Camshaft Correlation Bank 1 Sensor 1) and P0328-22 (Knock Sensor Bank 1). I’ve gotten the knock sensor periodically since I bought the car, so I think I have a marginally bad sensor. Too bad I didn’t replace it during the water pump replacement two years ago! I’m more worried about the new P0016 code!

4) TIMING CHAIN: I tried tugging up on the timing chain, and all seems tight. Hard to measure though!

5) POWER: I haven’t noticed any decrease in power, but maybe a bit bogged down since the CEL.

6) RATTLES: I have had some rattles on startup and idle, and in general the engine has always been more tick-y than I would like. Maybe this is slightly elevated right now.

 

What about the SC snout/coupler?
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I replaced the SC Snout and Coupler in 2023 with the solid variety from ZZ Performance. It has been a lot less rattles on shut down ever since.

 

Glad to hear the snout/coupler was changed.

Since the car has 4 camshaft sensors you could swap them from side to side without buying anything to see if the code follows or not?
They are mounted to the front of the engine so are fairly easy to work on.




You could have a VVT problem and those could be swapped as well but with considerably more work. We have been warned that the VVT's are somewhat fragile so do not drop them or handle them roughly.





The crank sensor is a bit buried and you will need to get under the car and remove the belly pans. But it's also a simple 1 bolt connection.




If you see any changes in your error codes that should help point you to where the problems is. I just wanted to give you some things to do before getting into that expensive timing chain repair.
Not a lot reported with this code either so it's kinda rare.
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Thanks again clubairth1!

I tried the swapping of Cam Shaft Sensors on Bank 1 (right side from driver’s seat- sensors A and B), since these I could get to without removing the intake or anything else. The Bank 2 (left side from driver’s seat) was covered up with the thermostat and intake connections.

BUT swapping these sensors did not change the error code, still P0016 for Bank 1 Sensor A (1).

I tried taking a short video with how the car sounds at idle. Let me know if anything sounds familiar. I realize I still need to pull the SC belt off the SC pulley to check that sound.

 

don't drive it anymore, that's a timing chain rattle. If you drive it you risk destroying your motor. It's a 3k-6k job depending on where you are but the codes and noise point to timing chains specifically probably a tensioner or guide that failed or your chain stretched.

 

Thanks for your quick reply, juliam!

Unfortunately, I’ve heard this rattle for some time. Hindsight I should have taken the opportunity to do the timing chain components two years ago with my water pump replacement, but I didn’t have the tools to do that at home…Since I’d hate to tear up the motor further, I’m going to take your advice and set up a time with a local shop to quote this repair. Hope I haven’t caused significant damage to the motor.

 

Yes if the code did not move we can rule out sensors I think.
Letting a shop look at it is a good idea. But you need a shop that is familiar with Jaguar tensioner problems.
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Thanks to you both!

For the confirmed timing chain overhaul: My local shop quoted me 21 hours in labor according to their Jaguar maintenance manual recommendation ($3k at $144/hr). Plus over $4000 in parts which they attributed to dealer sourcing because they would not recommend aftermarket parts for the engine. This puts the total at $8200!!! I would have to agree on the OEM parts but sheesh! Needless to say I’m going to shop around at my other recommended shop an hour away. I was really hoping for between $3000 and $5000 for this repair.

Heres the parts list the dealer recommended minus the supercharger kit since I replaced that not long ago… you can see they added spark, plug seals since I was providing some spark plugs and coils for that replacement while I was in the shop.

 

The labour hours seem a bit excessive for doing the timing chains and replacing the supercharger snout. Perhaps they're being a bit conservative? If they were replacing the head gaskets 24 hours would be about right for the entire job. Are they planning on removing the engine and gearbox with the front cross member?

Are items 14 and 15 on the parts list needed? One would think the parts needed would be assessed after disassembly.

 

Here is an AJ26 ready for new timing chains:


Note the leaking vacuum pump.

 

From that parts list it looks like they're also replacing the oil/fuel pump timing chain system (including sprockets) which is a good bit more work.
You could ask if they'd consider the option that doesn't remove the chains, but replaces the tensioners & rails with the chains in-place (but pulled off of the rails for access).
That would reduce the parts and time considerably.
As you can see from the attached JLR procedure (from JLR ToPIX), it is still a bit involved, but not to the level of the estimate.
But then any given mechanic may or may not feel comfortable with the procedure that specifically replaces the tensioners/rails as opposed to the entire timing & oil/fuel pump chain system.
I can say that when I replaced the timing chains & rails on my 2012 with 161k miles on it, the chains & all parts other than the tensioner rail were in perfectly fine condition. And even the wear on the rails was barely noticeable other than where the tensioners contact the rails.

 

I do not think you caused damage since it still runs and drives. If you caused too much damage you would likely hear knocking. I would shop it around and get different quotes, it is an expensive job. I was quoted $3000 but that was in Massachusetts. While you're there I would replace as many coolant pipes as possible with a euro amp kit and pcv. So sorry that this happened but if you go through with it your motor will run like new!

 

Ok, I got another quote from a trusted local shop for Jaguar in Lexington, KY: $10,300+. They are telling me that I need to replace all fuel injectors during this repair since they inevitably break during disassembly due to brittleness…this adds $2400 though! Even if I remove this addition and the coolant parts I’ve already replaced, their quote is $7400+. I will call back and ask about considering the tensioner and guide repair without chain replacement. Please tell me if you agree with their assessment, it is well over the value of my car at this point. I bought her for $13,900 in 2022!

If no shop will commit to the partial repair, is this something I could tackle without special tools?

Thanks!

 

I would argue that unless you have problems getting them out they should be reusable?

Now they do have a point but until you get in there and start hammering on the injectors you just don't know. They might just pop right out. On my 60K mile XJR all 8 pulled right out and I never even used the slide hammer tool. It all just depends and others have spent days hammering them out. We have seen the tops of the injector break off IF you get too rough.

But the cost is VERY high! FCP euro sells them for around $100 each. So still expensive at $800 for a set but much less than $2400!
Why are they replacing the cam covers? Do you have oil leaks there? Usually gaskets will fix that.

Now replacing both belt tensioners is OK but do you need that? Those can be easily replaced later without opening the engine. I would decline those unless again your having problems with the belt tensioners?

The hard part of this repair are the tensioners and chains so I would cut out all those external "nice to do" things off the list.
They have double charged you $361.25? Listed as shop supplies and then again as Hazardous charges? I think those are the same?

In fact after reading this again why are the injectors even included? The chains and tensioners can be changed without touching the injectors and again changing injectors does not require engine tear down and can be done at any time.

Bottom line is I think you can decline a large portion of their estimate by looking at each line item. You might figure the total after removing the items I mentioned to see if that will work for you?
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Hi clubairth1, Thank you for your thoughts on this. I really appreciate it! I've worked up some different options on a spreadsheet, and I think if I can get the labor reduced by 7-8h by limiting the need to remove the supercharger and leaving the chain in place, then the price could be closer to $5k.

All the extra parts were added based on inspection of the area (leaking valve cover, worn out belt tensioners, etc.), and I believe the labor was going to be same based on the standard 21h Timing Chain Replacement rate given.