2004 XJ8 Issues
#1
02-25-2008, 02:30 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
2004 XJ8 Issues
My story is so long and painful that I am reluctant to post it. Non the less, the basic story is that I purchased an 04' XJ8 and it has had major issues since day one. I am including segments of email that has been exchanged between myself and various others to provide the background. Ultimately, Jag corporate has washed their hands of the problem, and the Jag dealer I bought the car from changed hands at the first of the year and the new owners say its not their problem either. Just don't know what to do now.. Some of the chronology below..
I am blanking specific name and other info for obvious reasons.
Dear Ms. xxxxxxx,
Thank you for your concern.
I live in the U.S. - the car in question is a 2004 Jaguar XJ8 - VIN SAJWAxxxxxxxxxxx which I purchased from Jaguar of Novi, (Michigan) on September 4, 2007 with 30,914 miles on the clock. Since then, I have been dealing with Jaguar of Novi and Jaguar of Troy respectively, both in Michigan. I have done my best to attempt to escalate the importance of my problems by utilizing the appropriate channels, and to that end, have filed a complaint with Jaguar customer relations. They have provided a case number to me (703xxxx), and a gentleman namedxxxx (800) 452-4827 option 9 ext xxxx) has followed along during the latter part of this process.
After I received the car from its most recent 2 week visit to Jaguar of Troy, 4 of the 5 items listed on the service order remain unresolved. I limited my communication with GKN to the drive line issue, as had hoped that I would gain instruction to share with my dealer that they appear unable to collect for themselves. Another of the chronic ailments with the car is of a more critical nature, the front passenger airbag, which continues to malfunction. It is quite distressing to know that my wife is not protected by this key safety feature whenever she travels with me in this car.
However, the single most upsetting issue for me as an owner is the way that the vibration issue is being dealt with, which is to say poorly and at times, un-ethically. On my first visit to Jaguar of Novi (September 14-21), it took a fair amount of prodding to get the technician to even admit that there was a vibration, and then he gave indication that he was unsure of how to properly address the issue. This prompted me to phone the Service Manager, and ask him to follow the car through the process to insure a proper outcome the first time. Then, based on the service write up, the vibration was clearly evident and that a number of remedies were sought to eliminate the issue. They did largely relieve the vibration at 70-80 mph, but caused it to migrate to the 45-55 mph range.
My second visit (October 9-16) prompted a road test with Jaguar of Novi's lead technician (xxxx) who seemed very astute, and easily identified the new vibration issue, agreeing that it felt like drive train and not tires. He even stated that it "starts in the mid 40's and ends just about at 58 mph". He assured me that he would "work on this one himself" and that he would have no problem resolving the issue. After waiting for 3 days, I phoned in to learn of the progress. I found that - they had written it up as a noise, not a vibration, and therefore were looking for the wrong problem - and that Tony had not been working on the car himself. I transferred toxxxx to remind him that he had ridden with me and identified the issue and promised to resolve it himself, and that an improper write up should not have been a deterrent, as he already knew what the problem was. He promised to phone back after looking further into it, and when he did, said that the vibration analyzer "pointed at tires" and that he had road force balanced the tires.
I said that I thought it odd that with the same tires on the car, that the vibration had been successfully moved from a higher to lower speed range simply by manipulating the drive shaft.
We argued a bit, and finally after another couple of days, I learned that they had installed a new drive shaft and that Tony had signed off on the car as being vibration free.
I picked up the vehicle to find that it was much worse in the lower speed range, and had resumed vibrating at the higher speed.
In the interim, I contacted the service manager at Jaguar of Troy to tell them of my troubles and he encouraged me to bring in the vehicle, and that the Jaguar regional manager (Mario?) would be there to aid him in resolving the issue. He contacted me after taking a drive with (Mario?) and initially said that they "really did not feel anything" but then said that they had put the car on the vibration analyzer and found the tires to be "substantially out of balance" and that they had Road Force Balanced the tires.
So firstly, it would be difficult to "really not feel anything" with the "tires substantially out of balance" and secondly, the tires had just been balanced 2 weeks prior. For the record, the Michelin Pilots at roughly 36,000 miles are admittedly ¾ of the way through their life, but as with most Michelin tires I have had the pleasure of owning, they stay remarkably true through their entire life and are so on this vehicle. I also suggested that they temporarily swap tires with those known to be good as a means of proving the theory, and got more babble intended to side step the issue.
At the end of week one (November 5-9) I was invited to come and drive the car to demonstrate the improvement, to which there was - none.
At the end of the second week November 9-16), there appears to be a slight reduction in vibration in the upper speed range, albeit with a persistent harmonic thrumming, but the lower speed range vibration remains unchanged. In addition, I received information that they had finally uncovered the passenger airbag culprit in the form of a failed wiring harness and that all was well on that front, to which the light on the dash glows resolutely with my wife planted in her seat, assuring us that she remains, unprotected.
On a parallel path while all this has been going on, I have had communication with the general manager of Jaguar of Novi (Pete Conyers) to indicate that if all fails, I want to initiate the buy back process.
As of this week,xxxx of Jaguar customer relations assures me that either more dealer repair attempts or the buy-back process are my only courses of action, and that in either case, I am on my own to fight these battles.
[font=consolas][size=3]As of my last discussion withxxxx xxxxxxx, I said that all I really wanted was
I am blanking specific name and other info for obvious reasons.
Dear Ms. xxxxxxx,
Thank you for your concern.
I live in the U.S. - the car in question is a 2004 Jaguar XJ8 - VIN SAJWAxxxxxxxxxxx which I purchased from Jaguar of Novi, (Michigan) on September 4, 2007 with 30,914 miles on the clock. Since then, I have been dealing with Jaguar of Novi and Jaguar of Troy respectively, both in Michigan. I have done my best to attempt to escalate the importance of my problems by utilizing the appropriate channels, and to that end, have filed a complaint with Jaguar customer relations. They have provided a case number to me (703xxxx), and a gentleman namedxxxx (800) 452-4827 option 9 ext xxxx) has followed along during the latter part of this process.
After I received the car from its most recent 2 week visit to Jaguar of Troy, 4 of the 5 items listed on the service order remain unresolved. I limited my communication with GKN to the drive line issue, as had hoped that I would gain instruction to share with my dealer that they appear unable to collect for themselves. Another of the chronic ailments with the car is of a more critical nature, the front passenger airbag, which continues to malfunction. It is quite distressing to know that my wife is not protected by this key safety feature whenever she travels with me in this car.
However, the single most upsetting issue for me as an owner is the way that the vibration issue is being dealt with, which is to say poorly and at times, un-ethically. On my first visit to Jaguar of Novi (September 14-21), it took a fair amount of prodding to get the technician to even admit that there was a vibration, and then he gave indication that he was unsure of how to properly address the issue. This prompted me to phone the Service Manager, and ask him to follow the car through the process to insure a proper outcome the first time. Then, based on the service write up, the vibration was clearly evident and that a number of remedies were sought to eliminate the issue. They did largely relieve the vibration at 70-80 mph, but caused it to migrate to the 45-55 mph range.
My second visit (October 9-16) prompted a road test with Jaguar of Novi's lead technician (xxxx) who seemed very astute, and easily identified the new vibration issue, agreeing that it felt like drive train and not tires. He even stated that it "starts in the mid 40's and ends just about at 58 mph". He assured me that he would "work on this one himself" and that he would have no problem resolving the issue. After waiting for 3 days, I phoned in to learn of the progress. I found that - they had written it up as a noise, not a vibration, and therefore were looking for the wrong problem - and that Tony had not been working on the car himself. I transferred toxxxx to remind him that he had ridden with me and identified the issue and promised to resolve it himself, and that an improper write up should not have been a deterrent, as he already knew what the problem was. He promised to phone back after looking further into it, and when he did, said that the vibration analyzer "pointed at tires" and that he had road force balanced the tires.
I said that I thought it odd that with the same tires on the car, that the vibration had been successfully moved from a higher to lower speed range simply by manipulating the drive shaft.
We argued a bit, and finally after another couple of days, I learned that they had installed a new drive shaft and that Tony had signed off on the car as being vibration free.
I picked up the vehicle to find that it was much worse in the lower speed range, and had resumed vibrating at the higher speed.
In the interim, I contacted the service manager at Jaguar of Troy to tell them of my troubles and he encouraged me to bring in the vehicle, and that the Jaguar regional manager (Mario?) would be there to aid him in resolving the issue. He contacted me after taking a drive with (Mario?) and initially said that they "really did not feel anything" but then said that they had put the car on the vibration analyzer and found the tires to be "substantially out of balance" and that they had Road Force Balanced the tires.
So firstly, it would be difficult to "really not feel anything" with the "tires substantially out of balance" and secondly, the tires had just been balanced 2 weeks prior. For the record, the Michelin Pilots at roughly 36,000 miles are admittedly ¾ of the way through their life, but as with most Michelin tires I have had the pleasure of owning, they stay remarkably true through their entire life and are so on this vehicle. I also suggested that they temporarily swap tires with those known to be good as a means of proving the theory, and got more babble intended to side step the issue.
At the end of week one (November 5-9) I was invited to come and drive the car to demonstrate the improvement, to which there was - none.
At the end of the second week November 9-16), there appears to be a slight reduction in vibration in the upper speed range, albeit with a persistent harmonic thrumming, but the lower speed range vibration remains unchanged. In addition, I received information that they had finally uncovered the passenger airbag culprit in the form of a failed wiring harness and that all was well on that front, to which the light on the dash glows resolutely with my wife planted in her seat, assuring us that she remains, unprotected.
On a parallel path while all this has been going on, I have had communication with the general manager of Jaguar of Novi (Pete Conyers) to indicate that if all fails, I want to initiate the buy back process.
As of this week,xxxx of Jaguar customer relations assures me that either more dealer repair attempts or the buy-back process are my only courses of action, and that in either case, I am on my own to fight these battles.
[font=consolas][size=3]As of my last discussion withxxxx xxxxxxx, I said that all I really wanted was
#2
02-25-2008, 02:49 PM
Veteran Member
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
Sounds like you need an attorney, a list of local newspapers and television stations, and a condensed transcript that can be sent to the newspapers and television stations. Most are just chomping at the bit to get at stories like this. I don't think Jag or those dealers want the negative publicity.
Jaguar should be CC'd on what you submit.
Jaguar should be CC'd on what you submit.
#3
02-25-2008, 03:55 PM
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
From reading and the billable hours comment, he/she is an attorney.
From my understanding, the lemonlaw does not cover a used vehicle. The difference in value you are stating is irrelevant as you are not purchasing a vehicle from an auction. You are geting from the dealer.
If all they are asking for is $2200 for you to get into a newer vehicle you should take it. They are not required to assist you, but they are making an attempt at getting you out of the vehicleninto another, newer one.
The money it would cost you to go to court would far surpass the $2200 that you can get out of the car and into a newer one for. It is a year newer and will have select. The select edition warranty cost $3000 so it sounds like a good deal to me.
From my understanding, the lemonlaw does not cover a used vehicle. The difference in value you are stating is irrelevant as you are not purchasing a vehicle from an auction. You are geting from the dealer.
If all they are asking for is $2200 for you to get into a newer vehicle you should take it. They are not required to assist you, but they are making an attempt at getting you out of the vehicleninto another, newer one.
The money it would cost you to go to court would far surpass the $2200 that you can get out of the car and into a newer one for. It is a year newer and will have select. The select edition warranty cost $3000 so it sounds like a good deal to me.
#5
02-25-2008, 07:13 PM
#6
02-25-2008, 08:37 PM
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#7
02-25-2008, 08:46 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
The car has brand new Michelin Pilots on it, and the driveshaft balancer has been on the car at least 3 different times - an engineer did come from Jag New Jersey to work on the car the last time it was in and as I stated earlier, the vibration is now worse. How can this be that difficult of an issue? The drive is really ruined by this problem. And the airbag issue is a problem as well.
More importantly, why with any other purchase can you take the item back without any questions for minor complaints, and yet with this (premium) product after the serious run around and damn near begging them to do somthing that they end up telling me that the problem is fixed and to go away?
More importantly, why with any other purchase can you take the item back without any questions for minor complaints, and yet with this (premium) product after the serious run around and damn near begging them to do somthing that they end up telling me that the problem is fixed and to go away?
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#8
02-25-2008, 09:01 PM
#9
02-26-2008, 12:26 AM
Veteran member
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
If I were you, I would hire an attorney to submit a counter-offer (maybe $1500, and add Select to the replacement vehicle, give other color options and a 'range' of acceptable mileage...as a compromise) back to your dealer, or the most influencial person you have had correspondence with. That may cost you a few hundred dollars, but will also give the impression that you are very serious about
a) getting out of your vehicle based on safety related issues and being under warranty...should be the respnsibility of the dealer.
b) the impression of taking the case to court (civil I believe, though I am no attorney, but happily have a high billable rate)
You have been very courteous, respectful, and polite in your written correspondence (albeit not-so-much on the phone, but you have apologized, which is admirable), and all I can hope for is that you have taken good notes, names, dates, etc, which will help support your timeline of facts. It seems you have, and that is good.
One other option is to drive the vehicle to another Jag dealer for a fresh perspective (don't tell them it is in dispute at Troy and other dealer, but most likely, it's been redflagged in the database anyway (any truth to that one FJT?)...perhaps the third one will give you a different outcome, as we have seen numerous times from member experiences, that each dealer and service department can provide customer service that is literally night-and-day in comparison.
Man, I wish you luck...and keep us updated on the soap opera you like to call your life.
It also seems that this is now become a matter of principle now as opposed to a final resolution, even if it costs you just a bit more to start fresh... clean slate so to speak. I dont' know if this is the time to 'swallow your pride' and simply make a deal. Taking a car back into inventory, issuing a refund, etc IS a big deal to a dealer.
a) getting out of your vehicle based on safety related issues and being under warranty...should be the respnsibility of the dealer.
b) the impression of taking the case to court (civil I believe, though I am no attorney, but happily have a high billable rate)
You have been very courteous, respectful, and polite in your written correspondence (albeit not-so-much on the phone, but you have apologized, which is admirable), and all I can hope for is that you have taken good notes, names, dates, etc, which will help support your timeline of facts. It seems you have, and that is good.
One other option is to drive the vehicle to another Jag dealer for a fresh perspective (don't tell them it is in dispute at Troy and other dealer, but most likely, it's been redflagged in the database anyway (any truth to that one FJT?)...perhaps the third one will give you a different outcome, as we have seen numerous times from member experiences, that each dealer and service department can provide customer service that is literally night-and-day in comparison.
Man, I wish you luck...and keep us updated on the soap opera you like to call your life.
It also seems that this is now become a matter of principle now as opposed to a final resolution, even if it costs you just a bit more to start fresh... clean slate so to speak. I dont' know if this is the time to 'swallow your pride' and simply make a deal. Taking a car back into inventory, issuing a refund, etc IS a big deal to a dealer.
#10
02-26-2008, 04:45 AM
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
That is why it is harder to get a car taken back than say a cd. The dollar values are huge and would put dealers and some nanufacturers out of business. Hence the lemon law.
It will be easy enough to have another dealer look at the car, but for someone dead set in getting out of it, why bother.
Take the deal on the condition that they add select edition to the vehicle at no cost to you. If the car is at the dealer it can be done.
H2oboy, they don't flag the cars as you implied. The dealers are not linked, but they are all linked to jag. No flagging a vehicle.
As I said, no one is required to take thisvehicle back, so if you want out of it so bad, take the deal before it is withdrawn completley. Just ask for the select.
It will be easy enough to have another dealer look at the car, but for someone dead set in getting out of it, why bother.
Take the deal on the condition that they add select edition to the vehicle at no cost to you. If the car is at the dealer it can be done.
H2oboy, they don't flag the cars as you implied. The dealers are not linked, but they are all linked to jag. No flagging a vehicle.
As I said, no one is required to take thisvehicle back, so if you want out of it so bad, take the deal before it is withdrawn completley. Just ask for the select.
#11
02-26-2008, 07:56 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
I do have2 specific questions - why can't this propshaft be balanced? and why can't the airbag sense anyone under 150 lbs?
And one other, as I mentioned of the 5 XJ's (3-05's and 2-04's)I have driven now, 3 had the vibration badly, and 2 had it slightly - why?
As for the outcome, at this point it is a matter of principal. I design and sell automation systems with values often in the many millions of dollars, if we had attained this level of non performance on any contract, the offending element would have been replaced or refunded long ago, without making them grovel for attention. This kind of response is not acceptable evenfor a Neon, but a Jaguar? cmon..
And one other, as I mentioned of the 5 XJ's (3-05's and 2-04's)I have driven now, 3 had the vibration badly, and 2 had it slightly - why?
As for the outcome, at this point it is a matter of principal. I design and sell automation systems with values often in the many millions of dollars, if we had attained this level of non performance on any contract, the offending element would have been replaced or refunded long ago, without making them grovel for attention. This kind of response is not acceptable evenfor a Neon, but a Jaguar? cmon..
#12
02-26-2008, 07:04 PM
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
Those specific questions of course cannot be answered without seeing the car. I am sorry you are having the problems with the car.
The airbag light sounds like I would replace weight sensor kit and the OCS module. When they came out with new kit, it involved replacing the weight kit, the leather and cushion and the OCS module. I don't think many dealers realize how critical this is when doing the weight sensing kit.
Unfortunately, I am not in that area to look at your car, nor am I going to debate you about principles.
I have driven many hundreds of XJ8s, VDP, XJR, SuperV8s etc. They pretty much all have some form of a vibration in it. You are talking about the propshaft because the dealer was heading down that road. It doesn't mean that is where the problem lies regardless of who has told you it is. I have seen slightly warped brake rotors cause vibrations that will mimic a propshaft concern and also tire concerns.
I wish you luck on getting the issue resolved. If you ever have your car in FL, I will be happy to take a look at it.
The airbag light sounds like I would replace weight sensor kit and the OCS module. When they came out with new kit, it involved replacing the weight kit, the leather and cushion and the OCS module. I don't think many dealers realize how critical this is when doing the weight sensing kit.
Unfortunately, I am not in that area to look at your car, nor am I going to debate you about principles.
I have driven many hundreds of XJ8s, VDP, XJR, SuperV8s etc. They pretty much all have some form of a vibration in it. You are talking about the propshaft because the dealer was heading down that road. It doesn't mean that is where the problem lies regardless of who has told you it is. I have seen slightly warped brake rotors cause vibrations that will mimic a propshaft concern and also tire concerns.
I wish you luck on getting the issue resolved. If you ever have your car in FL, I will be happy to take a look at it.
#13
02-27-2008, 06:00 PM
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
ive also seen a L/F tire on a VDP got filled with that stop leak stuff and he had a vibe little in steering and some in seat balanced the tires and it was worse.. so put VVA (Vibe analyzer) and it said it was the proshaft.. so i replaced it and still there.. turns out it was the tires the stop leak turned into a liquid and was spining and felt like a prop. weird.. but VDP and XJ are sweet and very comfortable to drive..
#15
03-18-2008, 06:56 PM
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
I would take their offer. It is hard to get them to work with you even when you bought the car new. I bought an S500 new in '95 and had issues with the rear end on the car and after six months of bringing it back over and over again they offered me a trade for a '96 same spec as mine same color for $0.12 per mile. I took the swap and drove the '96 100K miles without a single problem. Point is it is hard to get these guys to do "the right thing" and the $2200 offer sounds fair and will cost much less than council. They know that too.
#16
04-01-2008, 05:34 AM
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
I also purchased an '04 with similar vibration problems (mine is an XJR). I noted it when I test drove it & the dealer vowed to fix it. Upon delivery the problem persisted between 60 and 75 mph. After 2 subsequent visits including a drive with a mechanic, one of the front tires was replaced. This has reduced the vibration.It is still slightly perceptible, but below my threshold to go back for more rounds of repair attempts. I wonder whether it can actually be completely eliminated since you have tried several cars with similar issues?
Good luck in swapping into another vehicle.
Steve
Good luck in swapping into another vehicle.
Steve
#17
04-03-2008, 06:01 PM
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
My 69k 2004 XJ 8 has started this type of vibration.It varies from around 35-50mph.I have already replaced all my tires.Didn't really seem to help the vibration.Is this a sign of a major problem or just an annoyance particular to this drivetrain. I love the car and could overlook thevibration so-long as it's not a sign of a more serious problem.Any advice from a tech would be appreciated.
#19
05-30-2008, 09:11 AM
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Posts: n/a
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
Just to bring anyone who cares up to speed on this, I have retained council on this and begun the legal process with Jaguar. The car still vibrates, the airbag still does not work (with anyone under 140 lbs!) and additional issues continue to crop up. We will see if a law suit will fix the situation. Regardless of whether it does or not, my feelings towards Jaguar are permanently damaged, and that is too bad as it did not have to be that way.
I do still have the choice to purchase products with higher standards of quality control,from organizations that care enough to resolve issues when they arrise. Maybe the new owners from India will do better at these basic tennets of business..
I do still have the choice to purchase products with higher standards of quality control,from organizations that care enough to resolve issues when they arrise. Maybe the new owners from India will do better at these basic tennets of business..
#20
06-18-2008, 05:15 PM
RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues
Not sure if you realize this or not but jag has the #1 rating in customer satisfaction from the dealer.
I can assure you the problems you are experiencing aren't just one's with jaguar but you will get them anywhere you go. Shoot the mercedes dealer I bought an used car at tried forging my signature! Every car has its fair share of problems as well as dealers.
Good luck finding the organization that care more to resolve the issues. Keep us updated. And btw novi and troy stores helped me out and were quite nice IMO.
I can assure you the problems you are experiencing aren't just one's with jaguar but you will get them anywhere you go. Shoot the mercedes dealer I bought an used car at tried forging my signature! Every car has its fair share of problems as well as dealers.
Good luck finding the organization that care more to resolve the issues. Keep us updated. And btw novi and troy stores helped me out and were quite nice IMO.