[QUOTE=Vector;1009057]I would say the new "plastic" cars are doing much better than the old "steel" ones when it comes to both performance and safety.

Isn't it funny how they said the Malibu is heavier? Strange isn't it that these cars with so much plastic are heavier, and smaller, but its true because of all the extra steel structure underneath that you cant see. I am glad "they don't build them like they use too" as so many people complain about. I have searched everywhere and cant find a crash test video of a Jaguar x350-358. Has anyone seen one, not that I want to see one get smashed, but I would like to know how safe it looks. You can find a crash test for all other cars including a new xj, but nothing for 2004-2009

 

pcar00


do the average mpg figures include those huge bloated trucks?

 

If the larger wheels are strictly for performance as some here are saying, then why do F1 cars run 13" wheels and Sprint Cup Series run 15". Oh they are race cars, but doesn't race car = performance.

 

With regard the F1 wheel sizes, I understand from the commentators this weekend that testing is underway to move to an 18" wheel and lower profile tyre. Michelin last year refused to enter F1 unless they could run a low profile setup, so there must be something in it.

For my two pence - I run 21's with 295's on the rear. My car is also lowered. Does it ride hard - yes, does it look good - yes and finally does it handle better - hell yeah.

 

Put on some wooden cable rolls for wheels with rubber bands for tires if you want to and lower it to ant killer height. Might look good.

If you like the look, then go for it, but words like "better handling" require data, not just butt dyno data either.

With F1 the push for lower profile tires seems to be about what the tire manufacturers want (profit, use of similar molds and sales tools to use on consumers) and the "styling" desires of some fans. None of the ENGINEERS are asking for it, they will be asked to deal with it.

Some comments from the F1 crowd:

"Added to that, as you rightly note the profit margin for the tyre manufacturers on a large diameter low profile tyre is substantially higher, whilst the performance benefits are not always quite so clear – in fact, Hembery has hinted that large low profile 18 inch tyres could actually be something of a detriment to ride quality due to the reduced compliance of the tyre sidewall."

"I’m looking forward to a pimped-out highrider F1 car with 24″ chrome wires"

Vector

My hero:

 

OK, since Vector replied to my tire size rant, and started the F1 talk, here is my 2 cents. When I was talking about the rims being bigger on performance cars, I was talking about normal cars with normal tires, and normal suspension that are driven on normal roads.

Like everything there is exceptions to the rule but I was being real world realistic when I mentioned it talking about tires and rims in a normal car forum, not a F1 or Sprint car forum. I am surprised that no one brought NASCAR into the discussion yet.

I am waiting for someone to post a picture of a jacked up truck going thru the mud with gigantic 40 inch tires on it and ask if that should have low profile performance tires on it to make it go thru the mud faster. Maybe next we can get monster trucks to change over to 50 inch rims and low profile tires too, would that help. Someone please also add the 1985 caprice with 26 inch rims to the discussion. <<<I'm being sarcastic.

F1 tires are built different than a passenger car tire. And F1 car car suspension is totally different too. By the way, Formula one cars actually dont handle that good at low speeds. It is the body and wings that force the car down (downforce) so the body is almost as big of a part of it handling than the tires. The car doesn't handle good unless you are going fast enough for the wings to create a ton of down force, then it handles better. There are several clips on TOP GEAR explaining this.


Below is an interesting article about how F1 wanted the Nuburging to be straighter (what the cars don't handle good at low speeds) and they wanted the track smoother with less bumps (what, F1 cars couldn't handle the bumps like the other cars on the track)

Nürburgring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Someone said there is no proof that lower profile tires handle better, umm yea there is, decades of proof actually. Car manufactures have tested them for years. Do you think the 2014 corvette zo6 would lap the Nürburgring as fast as it did on 15 inch rims and high profile tires? Don't you think that car manufactures test these kinds of things? They have spent Billions of dollars on test tracks. Watch some autocross racing, all the cars have smaller profile tires, in fact if you swap out your original tires for smaller profile, you get bumped into a higher class because it makes the car handle better.

Someone else said performance and race cars are the same thing. OK, so a Formula one race car, top fuel race car, dragster drag race car, rally race car, are race cars and they are the exact same thing as a performance car like mustang, camaro, xjr, challenger, BMW M5? Still the exact same thing??

 

Rules. It forces them to use a different brake package. Also, it doesn't matter if it's Cup or any of the feeder series - they all use 15" steel wheels.

 

I'm not sure cars/trucks for the mud or rally race cars would benefit from low profile tyres.
Bigger, yes, probably, as you want to have a large surface of carved rubber to extract you from the mud.
Large and thinner rims for the snow, as you want to go deeper grab the solid soil underneath.
F1 tyres is certainly another issue with many more parameters. The cars are much lighter. And the materials/structures of the tyres are top of advanced research and tests with probably nanomaterials embedded, etc. that can withstand extraordinary efforts and react very differently from standard stuff.

 

mine is a quiet and comfortable car.


Noisy and bumpy is not what I want.


I don't race on the highway.

 

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, I have exercised my own by creating my car - "might look good" ??



Handles better - it's a feeling, granted. But ultimately isnt that what counts? I certainly have more confidence with having more tyre on the road.