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Ouch! Took the 05 VDP to the dealer for check up due to front end lowering - $$$

XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

Ouch! Took the 05 VDP to the dealer for check up due to front end lowering - $$$

 
  #1  
Old 01-15-2014, 11:18 AM
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Default Ouch! Took the 05 VDP to the dealer for check up due to front end lowering - $$$

Jag dealer diagnostic report and repair estimate. UK only means parts must be ordered from UK (2 weeks) and not stocked this side of the pond. Here is a cut and paste of the report:



1. suspension problem.
Tech notes : VERIFIED SUSPENSION FAULT, FOUND BOTH FRONT SPRINGS LEAKING LIGHTLY RECOMMENDED TO REPLACE FRONT SHOCKS AND AIR COMPRESSOR THAT IS WEAK AS WELL CAUSED BY PUMPING AIR INTO THE LEAKING SPRINGS.
Basically you need new springs in the front and recommended air compressor too since its going to go eventually, however itís up to you.
Both front springs $4712 + tax, including labor. (UK only). The actual front springs C2C41349 are $1,600 each

Air compressor $2180.80 + tax including labor.

2. Noise that you hear in the mornings is your serpentine belt and tensioner.
Tech notes: THE NOISE FOUND IS SERPENTINE BELT AND TENSIONER NOISY. CONFIRMED CUSTOMERS CONCERN. RECOMMENDED TO REPLACE BOTH ABOVE MENTIONED PARTS.
Serpentine belt and Tensioner $1104.00 + tax including labor.

3. Hood Struts donít hold bonnet in position.
Tech notes: TWO NEW SHOCKS REQUIRED FOR THE HOOD, BOTH WEAK AND DONíT HOLD THE BONNET, RECOMMENDED TO REPLACE BOTH HOOD SHOCKS.
Hood Struts $395.00 + tax including labor

4. Rear Seat Heater doesnít work properly.
Tech notes: CHECKED REAR SEAT HEATER, FOUND REAR SWITCH FAULTY , REQUIRES NEW REAR SEAT HEATER SWITCH.
Rear seat heater $712.00 + tax including labor (UK only)

5. Check rear differential for any signs of leaks.
Tech notes: FOUND LEFT REAR DIFFERENTIAL SEAL LEAKING SLIGHTHTLY, RECOMMENDED TO REPLACE REAR DIFF.SEAL ON THE LEFT SIDE.
Rear differential seal on the left side $900.00 + tax including labor

6. One more comment from the tech, he is recommending to replace height sensors for the air suspension considering age of the vehicle and current concerns with the suspension.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm...now I know why so many on here are trying aftermarket spring options! Ouch!
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:54 AM
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Hmmm...now I know why so many on here are trying aftermarket spring options! Ouch! $1600 (CDN) for a shock? Well, that is a shock.

Was looking on Ebay and saw a place that sells remanufactured air shocks for US$ 485, plus give him your old ones. A dealer in the US has some new ones for US$ 1,033. each, which would be about 10% more in Canadian $, so say CDN $1,150 plus shipping. I have to ask for a couple more quotes on the shocks. Maybe the Canadian dealers have to pay more or something for the parts, as $1,600 each for C2C41349 seems high to me.
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:39 PM
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Holy cow! So your $15k car needs $10k of dealer repairs?

I'm sure you know of aftermarket places, ie: Arnott for springs & compressor, correct?

$395 PLUS LABOR FOR HOOD STRUTS????? That's just ridiculous. I checked rockauto.com & they have URO brand for $33 each.

Take a look at my post from this morning; I love the car & want to keep it for a long time, but stuff like this drives me crazy.

Are you considering coil spring conversion?
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:42 PM
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The price for the compressor seems rather high. Jag will only replaces the entire air compressor. Typically, all that is wrong is that the piston seal (like a piston ring) has worn out. If you search this X350 forum, you will find there is a member here who has made a replacement air compressor seal kit which will get the compressor working almost as new again. Replacing the seal can be a fairly easy DYI job.


The factory air springs are not cheap. Due to price, many have gone with Arnot air springs, or converted to coil over springs. You'll see many discussions of this in this forum.
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:21 PM
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Compressor

JAGUAR XJ-series X350 | X358 AIR SUSPENSION COMPRESSOR PUMP C2C27702 NEW | eBay

Air spring

Air Spring - C2C41347 | Jaguar XJ - X350 - XJR | Jaguar | British Parts UK

Jaguar XJ-series Genuine Bilstein Front Air Spring Shock Absorber X350 X358 | eBay

Air spring is Bilstein after-market as originally supplied to Jaguar

I have also seen (in fact bought) a set of new-old stock springs for my car to swap out to Comfort springs. Currently it is Sport so a bit too hard for me.

What miles on the car ? The air springs seem to fail more often in the US & Canada than they do in the UK. My local indy says he has never replaced one. There are also some used ones around, but you'd need a good statement of provenance before buying.

Main dealers will be the most expensive repairs, with top whack labour charges and parts prices. The compressor price is really quite outrageous as are the spring units. Advice is to find a good independent Jaguar specialist if you can.
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:07 PM
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I fitted used struts to my boot lid for 10 GBP.The struts came from a Ford.

The bonnet struts are the same size.

Just measure the closed length and replace with same length.

The compressor probably just needs a new seal (Bagpiping Andy).

Drive belt tensioner here:JAGUAR X350 3.5/4.2 ENGINE AUXILIARY BELT TENSIONER DEL INC | eBay

WRT diff seal I would just monitor it.

No reason to replace height sensors IMO.
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:08 PM
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That is crazy pricing.

Ditto what Fraser said, you need to find a good indy Jag shop, you can probably get all that done for about half, seriously.
There has got to be a few in Toronto, big city (love Toronto).

Here is a new wabco (original supplier I believe) air compressor for $500.
https://www.arnottindustries.com/par...36_gid527.html
Figure a couple hours labor to install? Let's say $750 vs dealer $2,180

Check out Arnott industries for some options on rebuilt or new shock/spring set ups, for the price of 1 of the dealers price.

Having run my own shop, I don't think I could ever work at a dealer - giving those prices with a straight face...
 

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Old 01-15-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fraser Mitchell View Post

What miles on the car ? The air springs seem to fail more often in the US & Canada than they do in the UK. My local indy says he has never replaced one. There are also some used ones around, but you'd need a good statement of provenance before buying.

Main dealers will be the most expensive repairs, with top whack labour charges and parts prices. The compressor price is really quite outrageous as are the spring units. Advice is to find a good independent Jaguar specialist if you can.
Hello Fraser, and thanks for the info. My 05 VDP has 120k on it. The PO replaced the rear compressor 4 years ago, front is original. All the air springs are original.

Do you know what the difference, if any, is between air spring part number C2C41349 and C2C41347? The British Parts link lists the part number ending in "7" as suitable for the complete range of years for the X350, but the Jag dealer tells me that part does not fit my car and I actually need the more expensive part #C2C41349, not C2C41347. I'm a bit confused at the difference between C2C41347 and C2C41349.

The dealer says my compressor isn't leaking, but it is weak due to having been overworked trying to pump up the leaking air springs, hence his recommendation to replace the compressor with the springs. I agree the prices he is quoting seem very high. I would be better off sourcing the parts myself I think based on your research.
 
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rosskuhns View Post
That is crazy pricing (and why they get the nickname Steelers around here)

Ditto what Fraser said, you need to find a good indy Jag shop, you can probably get all that done for about half, seriously.
There has got to be a few in Toronto, big city (love Toronto).

Here is a new wabco (original supplier I believe) air compressor for $500.
https://www.arnottindustries.com/par...36_gid527.html
Figure a couple hours labor to install? Let's say $750 vs Steelers $2,180

Check out Arnott industries for some options on rebuilt or new shock/spring set ups, for the price of 1 of the dealers price.

Having run my own shop, I don't think I could ever work at a dealer - giving those prices with a straight face...
Thanks for the link to the compressors selling for $490 - much appreciated!
 
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:28 AM
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I replaced my leaking right rear shock with a rebuilt Arnott unit in half an hour - works great. As others have said here the dealer prices are absurd. Rock Auto has the belt tensioner for $52.79 and the belt ranges from $10.35 for a Dayco to around $25 for a really good one. Hood struts are $60-$80. None of this is hard to install.
 
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:23 PM
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crazy prices!!, you do need to replace your front airsprings to stop the sinking, buy arnott or similar,

but if you want to save some more $$$'s, you can fix your weak compressor for £25GBP + shipping ($52 Total)

& see "how to" video guide to show you the steps

http://www.bagpipingandy.com/installation.html

Best regards

Andy
 

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Old 01-17-2014, 10:52 AM
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I really would never take my car to a dealership to get anything done, there is always someone here or locally who could offer pretty much all the advice and help needed to carry out any work yourself at a fraction of the cost.

It amazes me how they can get away with it.... ( as I sit in a VW dealership in their waiting room with my girlfriends Beetle, which cost $115 just to plug the OBDCII sensor in and correct an air bag issue, which is obviously going to cost $$$$$ to repair!!!).
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:29 PM
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My air suspension failed last Sunday morning. We walked out of Church and as I was approaching the Jaguar, it appeared really low. There was no warning or a indication that there was an issue on the drive. It was resting on the bump stops and the it wouldn't rise after starting it up. Oh well, it has a little over 70k miles so it's about time I had this problem. Bummer - no donuts or cupcakes after Mass.

I got it home that morning and left it parked at home so I could deal with it sometime.

This morning while my truck was warming up, the sun was up so I finally had the opportunity to check for leaks. I started up the engine, popped the hood and was about to walk over and grab a bottle of soapy water. But, I saw the problem and had it fixed a few minutes later. I figure I saved at least $10,000-$15,000 by not bringing it to the local dealer.
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:47 PM
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I see the pic shows the air line not connected, but why ? Did it snap, or did the connection somehow get undone from the shock ?
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fraser Mitchell View Post
I see the pic shows the air line not connected, but why ? Did it snap, or did the connection somehow get undone from the shock ?
Good question. This morning, the compression fitting nut was not loose. That doesn't mean that it was tight. I didn't notice or feel an issue while driving, nor was there a message on the dash. My only guess is that the line blew off while parked and the car settled to the bump stops. There are marks on the tube, or some kind of coating that are the same as the driver's side. So, it didn't break. Without knowing what had happened, I was joking with myself last Sunday about why I was being "punished". Go to church and bam! Hey, what did I do?

Now that I know that the line blew off, I'm glad it happened while it was parked. Lucky me, huh? Plus, it was early morning on Sunday so getting it home was easy and uneventful.

I'm going to look at it again this weekend (if I care enough). I'll inspect the fitting and the tubing and reinstall it to specs I'm aware of. There were colored marks on the side of the nuts so I suspect the install specs are probably hand tight, mark and then tighten based on some amount of rotation. But, I could be wrong.
 

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Old 01-17-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by trosty View Post
I really would never take my car to a dealership to get anything done, there is always someone here or locally who could offer pretty much all the advice and help needed to carry out any work yourself at a fraction of the cost.

It amazes me how they can get away with it.... ( as I sit in a VW dealership in their waiting room with my girlfriends Beetle, which cost $115 just to plug the OBDCII sensor in and correct an air bag issue, which is obviously going to cost $$$$$ to repair!!!).
Yes, my dealer charges a similar fee for verifying/diagnosing a problem ($115) though they usually wave it if you actually get the actual work done there. I assume this is to stop owners coming in for an assessment, fainting at the cost, and then taking the car elsewhere with a better knowledge of what is wrong with it.

In my case the air springs are very high in price from the Canadian dealership. They sell them for CAN $1,600 each (US$1,440) and I see a U.S. Jag dealership that sells parts on Ebay sells the part for US$ 1,033. (CAN$ 1,135) so that is a savings of CAN$465 right there per unit - even though the other seller is also a dealership. The Bilstein unit (identical to the Jaguar part just without the Jaguar label on the bag) sells for US$895. (Can$985) so wiothout even getting to non OEM parts the savings from buying two Bilstein air springs (2xCAN$985=$1,970) vs two Jaguar air springs from the local dealership (2xCAN$1,600=$3,200) would result in a savings on exactly the same part of (CAN$3,200-$1,970=$1,230.

I went to the dealership to pick up the car today and sat down with my service adviser and the head mechanic. The topic of conversation was how I am not made of money. I used the above air spring as one example. They were both sympathetic, and said they agree the parts are very expensive, and they said if I want to source my own parts they will use those if I bring them in, instead of their parts, since the Bilstein unit is identical to the Jaguar unit. At any rate, they did not charge me the $115 per item diagnostic charge for telling me A) the air springs leak, B)the compressor should be replaced, C) the differential seal leaks, or D) the rear seat heater switch is faulty. Indeed they did not charge me any diagnostic fees at all, even though I wasn't having the work done there. I did pay them to replace the serpentine belt and tensioner, as it was obviously damaged and making a racket and I already authorized that repair on arrival (replace the belt it is about to go) before getting/going over the list of other stuff that was priced out and in need of repair.

The bill breakdown for the thing they did do - the belt and tensioner - is as follows:

1 C2C37063 Belt - drive $ 82.14
1 C2C36146 Tensioner - drive $155.45
Labor 6 hours @$144/hr $864.00

Total parts & labor $1,101.59

Notes: abnormal engine noise on start, traced fault to faulty idler pulley and cracked belt. Replaced both parts and rechecked engine. Engine noise now normal. No further action required.

My concern in this is that how does it take a Jaguar mechanic 6 hours to change a drive belt and tensioner? All the dealerships in this area (Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, BMW charge labor at similar rates per hour, so yes, it is a dealership - but why six hours?

At any rate, I will be considering other options for the air springs - even if I source the parts myself, if it takes 6 hours to change a belt and tensioner the hours billed to change those two air springs would be, well I know already from the estimate - $4,700 less the $3,200 they said the parts would cost = labor of $1,500 to do the air springs. So that is 10.2 hours, or about 5 hours per spring. I just watched a YouTube video of changing an air spring on a Jag and it didn't look like more than 2 hours per unit to do as a DIY job.

When I was at the Cadillac dealership a few years ago I was waiting for the car (1 hour) and saw the bill listed labor at 2.5 hours (their labor rate was $72/hr at the time). So I said, 'wait a minute - the car's only came in an hour ago' and the service person said the mechanics don't bill time based on how long it takes them - the dealership sets a time for each type of repair and that is what is billed, whether it takes more or less time to fix the issue in one instance is irrelevant. This motivates the mechanics to work quickly, as if they can finish a 2.5 hour billable job in 45 minutes, they can move on to another job and earn more in a day than if they worked slowly and took the whole 2.5 hours. That is about the time I stopped getting the Cadillac serviced at the GM dealer lol. Of course the indy GM service place I take it to since then doesn't go on actual time either - he seems to pause, pick a number out of the air when bringing the car in, and bill that. Granted his prices are much lower than the GM dealership, but I don't even know what his hourly labor rate is as he doesn't break down a bill at all. He looks at the problem while I'm standing there and says "Mmmm...I think $250. for this. Yes, $250 good?" and if I say yes I pick up the car and pay him $250. My bill is a piece of paper that says 'receipt' and written on it is "Rec'd $250 for repairs on (insert date). Signed Al" Hey, as long as the problem is fixed... Still, with the Jag I keep good records and it has been serviced well, but I may be looking for an indy garage now.
 

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BrentGardner View Post

The bill breakdown for the thing they did do - the belt and tensioner - is as follows:

1 C2C37063 Belt - drive $ 82.14
1 C2C36146 Tensioner - drive $155.45
Labor 6 hours @$144/hr $864.00

Total parts & labor $1,101.59

Notes: abnormal engine noise on start, traced fault to faulty idler pulley and cracked belt. Replaced both parts and rechecked engine. Engine noise now normal. No further action required.
This is NOT a 6 hour job. They tacked on the extra $$$ as you turned down the other work they recommended....
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:16 PM
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One question is "What is the jaguar flat rate for the job?"Does anyone have access to the jaguar book?


In any event 6 hrs is ridiculous.
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:19 PM
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I'm wondering the same thing. I was able to get my air struts covered by my extended warranty, but I had a steering column issue that got billed at $460 in labor only. That put a crimp in my cramp. Going in tomorrow to pick up the XJ and I'm wondering how many hours does it take to drop a steering column, repack the wires and close it up?
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by abonano View Post
This is NOT a 6 hour job. They tacked on the extra $$$ as you turned down the other work they recommended....
They didn't tack on extra hours after I turned down the other work - the quote they gave for the other work was given at the same time as the quote for this work, and the final bill matched the earlier quote. They think I am going to do the other work with them, just not now, which is why they waived all those multiple $115 diagnostic charges I would have been charged.

The fact that the quote and the actual bill were the same indicates to me that, like the local GM dealership, they have some master list of what hours to bill for what problem, regardless of actual time spent to fix it. There is no way an expert Jaguar mechanic with 15+ years experience on Jaguars and with all the tools of a full service Jaguar dealership at his disposal would need 6 hours to change a X350 drive belt and tensioner.
 

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