Now we all know that with motorcars, there is what one terms "fair wear and tear" to be dealt with; it is a fact of life when running a car, and driving it around; brake pads and discs, tyres, etc. However, it seems to me that there is a lot of "UNfair wear and tear" with our X350 cars.

I am now on my third visit to a shop this year for work to be carried out on my car. Before anybody thinks it is a heavily used, high mileage car, I can say that I took the car over in May 2010 at 30k miles, and it is now coming up to 50k, although now 8 years old. Even last year I had to spend a lot of money on paintwork to rectify the Jaguar lack of knowledge of aluminium painting.

First off in 2011 was before I went to Scotland in July. I had a transmission reflash to cure a rough change problem, (with transmission fault display). This generated a large bill, mainly due to worn front tyres, so the suspension was all reset to factory settings and two tyres fitted. A few hundred pounds there, although to be fair, this was almost all for the tyres.

Then it was only a fortnight ago, I returned from a holiday in Germany and the car was due its yearly service, but it was found the rear pads and discs were worn out, so these had to be replaced. On holiday the driver door latch decided to finally pack up so a new latch had to be fitted. At the service the dealer advised the suspension joints were wearing out and needed replacement, and advised it was "an expensive job". Nearly a thousand pounds for this service job without the suspension issue being dealt with !

By now I was getting a bit suspicious, so early this week I took the car to an independent Jaguar specialist for a second opinion, and indeed the joint wear was confirmed and shown to me in the workshop with the car up on the lift. So on Wednesday, I will be taking the car in to this specialist to have new lower bushes in the rear spring/damper units, plus new lower wishbone arms. Cost is fairly eye-watering at over £800 inclusive.

So my question really is - why is the durability of Jaguar components so poor, or am I being a perfectionist ? My wife's New Beetle is now 10 years old, and on 55k miles and I have hardly had to put a spanner on it since purchase 3 years ago.

So far my car is reliable, and keeps going, with no rescue tow-ins to home, but the repair costs for replacing worn parts are getting intolerable. Surely the suspension should last a whole lot longer.

My very firm recommendation to Jaguar engineers is to now concentrate all their efforts on maximising durability. Why is durability so important to Jaguar succeeding in selling new cars ? Because lack of durability affects the used price once the first owner trades the car in. The used market very soon gets to know the problems and this, (obviously) affects the prices people are prepared to pay for the used cars. So a bad reputation for durability will affect the prices the new car owners will get for their now-used cars, and this information will eventually work its way back to the new car market, and Jaguar will take on a reputation for cars that depreciate far more than other cars, and are hence a bad buy.

In my case the car seemed a bargain last year, but at the moment it doesn't seem such a good deal after 14 months of ownership with some big bills for unscheduled work. At some point I really will have to call a halt and look for something that does not demand hugely expensive work to replace worn parts that on other cars last a whole lot longer.

What say you, folks ? Am I wrong ?

 

I have an 04 XJ8. It has been the most reliable car I have owned. Replacing the tires has been the largest cost to date and I did that only because the Pirelli P6's were so noisy. The only high cost part replacement I have had done was the replacement of the clock spring in the steering wheel and that was done in warranty. The only thing I can think of is if you bought your car previously owned, maybe it was mistreated. Knock on wood, it is still going strong without an issue. It hasn't needed a "failed repair" in 6 years!! (hope I haven't jinxed it!)

 

A good majority of the parts in these cars, like most manufacturers, are actually made by third parties so I am not certain how much blame can be placed on Jaguar. It seems that often times parts are engineered to last at least the duration of the original factory warranty making an extended warranty a good buy if you can locate a one as inclusive as possible and easy to work with (good luck there!).

I frequently see complaints of how expensive replacement tires are for these cars and wonder if the posters have ever bought tires for other vehicles. Many cars have 18, 19 & 20" wheels and wider rims and typically these sizes are engineered for higher performance. If you do not mind shopping around for a bit, you may frequently find good savings at various online retailers and sometimes even local shops, often times bringing the price down by hundreds of dollars. Drop down to a 15 or 16 inch rim and the tire prices drop too with a greater range of available models to choose from.

Your "failed" latch is the first I have heard on these cars and is probably just an unfortunate situation. How long suspension bushes last is dependent greatly on driving style and road surface conditions, they are somewhat "sacrificial" just as shock absorbers are.

The requirement of transmission re-flashing I suspect also has a lot to do with driving style as the transmission ECU is adaptive. It is not too difficult to reset the ECU with instructions I found here on this forum.

Brake pads and rotors wear out and again to a degree, there duration depends on your braking style. In your case the mileage seems to be a reasonable amount of use.

The majority of the cars I have owned I have traded in long before the factory warranty had expired. The exceptions to this were a '97 Lexus LS400 I had extended the factory warranty and drove it for about 60K miles before I traded it in 2001 for a new Mercedes S-Class. The largest repair the Lexus required after the first warranty had lapsed was a complete replacement of the rack and pinion and some front suspension components. The Mercedes I drove until 2004 and 74K miles. I too extended the factory warranty because at the time I was driving almost 20K miles per year. Again, as soon as the first warranty expired the car spent a great majority of its remaining time at the dealer service and thousands of dollars in repairs. The SuperV8 is the last exception and until recently (it is currently at the dealer for throttle body, lower front control arms, seat headrest motors, etc) has served me well for 70K+ miles and I would say by far the most pleasant experience aside from the first NON factory warranty extension purchase I have ever made (and possibly the last) because I wanted 5 additional years not the maximum of 2 Jaguar offers.

 

Jahummer: Quote "The requirement of transmission re-flashing I suspect also has a lot to do with driving style as the transmission ECU is adaptive. It is not too difficult to reset the ECU with instructions I found here on this forum".

Last month, I was at the Jag dealership to have the tranny re-flashed because of erratic shifting - TSB JTB00072v2 - which was supposed to reconfigure the transmission control module (TCM). Unfortunately the shop was unable to get the reflash program to upload. You mentioned instructions to reset the ECU. I assumed the tranny reflash was only available at a Jag dealer? I am also assuming resetting the ECU is not the same thing? Am I correct? Also, can you point me to the instructions to reprogram the ECU in case that would be any help?

Thanks

 

You have all good points , durability should be one of main concerns for car manufacturers but I see some brands don't take it anymore .
It also affects used car prices as you said and dealers' business as well .Because in high end cars like Jaguar parts are not cheap and this is where durability should take over ,however I believe your Jag is not a lemon may be just fluke

 

I will try to find it for you. It may also have been in the s-type forums. I found it while looking for an issue I was having with mine, occasionally dropping out of gear when stopped giving the sensation of being rearended. IIRC the procedure had something to do with disconnecting the battery and driving the car at certain speeds in X amount of time and switching sport mode on and off.

 

I've also had some issues, primarily with the air suspension, replacing the two front shocks and compressor for about $1200 (did the work myself to save a few $). I also had the front door latch go bad and I replaced it with a used one for $125. I had the coolant tank fail and replaced that for $125. The idler pulley for the belt squeeked on cold starts and that was replaced for about $50. I had the tranny oil and filter changed and all the tranny issues disappeared after this. Apparently, the original fill oil was not fully developed, but the new Lifeguard6 seems to have the additives it needs. I had the same issues with the XKR tranny and the oil change fixed them too. The $450 cost of this is pricey but worth it in the long run.
I have always liked cars of this type and I am used to dealing with issues. If one wants high reliability and cheap repairs, expensive high performance/luxury European cars are just not the place to be. Many people are aware of this but there are always some that don't get the word.

 

I've thought a bit more on this, and think the fact that the car had 20" wheels on when I bought it may have contributed to the early failure of the suspension joints; this plus it is a Sport with firmer springing, so on purchase the car rode very harshly until I swapped out for 18". Last year in October the service invoice had an advisory on suspension joint wear. Hard suspension and unforgiving tyres would seem to put excessive loads on the joints, so a lesson there perhaps.

So maybe was being a bit unfair on the car, but I have to say, as I approach retirement next month, I am getting worried about the costs of maintenance and repair. I really do like the car overall and want to keep it. I suppose finding a good specialist with lower labour charges is the first step. Everything else - insurance, road tax, fuel consumption, is reasonable and affordable.

 

I love the Sepang 20"s on XJR's in the vintages I was interested in buying most (2004-2007). At the end of the day, however, I decided on buying an "R" with the 19's for the reasons you state, Fraser. And, I had taken careful note of your postings about converting to 18's away from the 20's, and the reasons you were doing so. So, you directly influenced my buying decision. Thanks, Fraser!

 

The way I've always looked at it, rationalized it if you will, is that Jag (as well as other high end sports sedans) attempts to do a number of things well and to strike some sort of balance when these goals conflict with each other. What I mean is cutting edge competitive features such as touring car comfort, sports car handling, rapid acceleration, high speed cruising and strong braking all in 1 package.

When you try to put it all in 1 vehicle the systems become complex and the components grow quite expensive, prone to high maintenance costs and in some cases shorter life spans. Occasionally Jag has made small to major blunders such as the air shock suspension system which I regard as part of the process.

Add to the above the fact that drivers of these high end sports/touring cars are more knowledgeable and critical than the average Hyundai pilot. Most importantly, a lot of our cars are owned second hand by the same knowledgeable/critical class of owners who are not as well prepared to deal with the expense of "out of warranty upkeep". I myself am in this group. Always have been.

In this Forum we read Thread after Thread with people going on and on about such things as power steering pulsations,brake modulation, tire characteristics etc, etc. etc. Jag drivers are more interested and attuned to the car. The Toyota/Hyundai drivers of the world don't notice or care about such trivia.

My point is that a lot of your disillusionment may have more to do with your appreciation of fine machines and a perfectionist streak. In my case. advancing age robs me of patience. Maybe you too.

 

Well put tarheal. although I prefer to only keep them as long as the warranty last.

 

Snag is Fraser, no matter what anyone tells you, you don't know how it was driven over the time of the PO.

You mention that the car had 20" and low profiles, I would hazard that it was not driven like Miss Daisie's car by the PO.

Now we all know that you look after your vehicles, but sometimes, a could do with looking at report, can wait a while.

For example, the car I am using as a DD at the moment has had 3 MOTs could do with looking ats' for corrosion on the outside of the exhaust.

4yrs later, we need to change the exhaust.

Sometimes it comes down to, what you are prepared to live with, and what is required.

For your suspension issues, I would recommend booking into an MOT station and having them test the car. At least you will know.

 

Guess what - it passed in April this year !!

Of course this was when it was on 42k miles and I am now on 50k. I suspect the tester considered it within limits then, but the play I saw and felt last week, looked too much to me to ignore if car handling is to be optimal. Worn suspension also tends to cause excessive tyre wear, so one always ends up spending the money somehow. I learnt this lesson with an XJ6 Series 3 in the 80s. Only when I bit the bullet and replaced all the ball and other joints on the front suspension did the tyres start to last longer. Did the work myself too, due to poverty at the time.

 

Compared to my Mercedes S Class, I consider the Jaguar cheap and easy to work on.If you can do most of the work yourself you can shave quite a bit of money off of the cost of ownership.These forums are a great way to do just that.
I agree with some of the other posters that discuss some of the trade-off's of owning a higher end car. One of those trade-off's is higher maintenance and repair costs. You may want to throw some money into a seperate account every paycheck just for car repairs. This can help defray some of the financial shock of ownership.
Overall I would consider the XJ a reliable car.The 2003 and earlier more so than 2004 up.

 

OK, so I booked the car in with the independent specialist, and the car was picked up early yesterday for attention to the rear suspension and returned to my house just after 17.00. So what did they do and how much did it cost ?

I was happy with their price for the lower suspension wishbones, as it was around the same as I have seen on the the internet (£190 each). When one thinks that Jaguar want over £400 for the same part, one can see where the profits are being made !!

The wishbones were replaced on both sides, plus the lower bushes on each spring unit. Also one of the link stabiliser arms was also replaced as the joint had failed. Finally a full alignment check was done on the suspension, and it was reset back within limits.

So, all this lot for £689, plus the dreaded UK VAT gave a final bill of £827. No charge for the pick-up and drop-off, they just left me the bill to pay which I did today.

Oh, and the clonking noises from the rear of the car have gone.

I just hope this is the final bill for 2011 !!