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I changed the flex disc which connects the drive shaft and the differential yesterday. During installation, I noticed that the drive shaft center support came apart ( I did a visual check just a few weeks ago, and it appeared fine - well, I was wrong since it fell apart pretty bad yesterday ).
I already ordered the new part, but I have ZERO experience working on that area of the car.
So if somebody could give me some info on how to change this part, I would be very thankful!
Do i have to open the U-joints? Or how do i get the part in there?
I will be very thankful for any help and advice in this matter!
Also, is there anything else I could/should do or check while working in this area?
I read about 'balancing the driveshaft' - is that something you would recommend? I don't have any vibrations, so maybe that would not be necessary.
I did do this job a few years ago but can't remember the exact procedure. I don't think it was very difficult. I think the prop shaft splits at the bearing. See this parts diagram to see what I mean.
The driveshaft segments must be separated. Make sure to scribe witness marks so it can be reassembled 'in phase'.
Also, the center bearing-to-body bracket is adjustable for driveshaft alignment. Make sure to carefully mark the location so you can return it to the same location. Re-aligning the shaft is a PITA
The bearing itself can be tapped off using a hammer and drift....and the new one installed the same way. Or, better, use a hydraulic press!
One of the members here, and I think it is Don B. has pictures of the process posted on Jaglovers or sum such, but I only know a circumferential way to locate them: Search this forum for "hub bearing." Somewhere in the list of returns, you'll find someone asking what part number they should buy for the hub bearing, with a reply showing an illustrated parts breakdown pointing to the wrong part, with the OP retorting, "No, but the one I need is shown there and is number xx." Keep reading that thread and you'll find Don B. has posted a link to pictures of the rear wheel bearing change on Jaglovers. Go there, search his other pictures and you will eventually find it.
but Plums' way is easier, I'm sure.....but I did it my way just to see if it would work....clicked on "My Photo Albums" button and scanned through Don's 127 excellent how-to's and found this: http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap...?id=1362283693
There is also a Jurid coupling replacement one there if you need it.
@ b1mcp: Thanks a lot for the link! That definitely helps me already. I didn't know the shaft could be separated right by the center support. Do you remember how you took it apart?
@ Doug:
The driveshaft segments must be separated
This is basically what it comes down to for me....where exactly and how do I separate the segments?
@ aholbro1: Thanks for the lead, I'll try to find those pictures....I just tried, but came up with nothing....but I'll try again...
Hi, I replaced my center shaft bearing earlier this year. Underneath the universal joint just before the center bearing you will see a 17mm bolt head with a locking tab. Clamp the propshaft as Don suggests and undo the bolt. The splined shaft has one odd key so that it will stay aligned. You don't have to worry about aligning, but for your own comfort mark before removing. Bashing the old bearing of isn't too difficult. Fitting the new bearing you won't find much room to get anything between to bottom the bearing. Go to you local exhaust shop and get an reducer adapter or pipe extension. I got a ROL 548533 from Canadian tire, $2.50. One end 1 3/4" and the other 1 1/2" works perfect without any damage. Dons B's instructions are perfect and I could only improve it with this addition.
I received the new bearing earlier than expected, so I could get to it today already. Everything went great, so thanks to everybody for their help and input!
I'll post some pictures of the procedure ( in addition to the great images from the other website ), so hopefully they might be helpful for everybody who is taking on this repair in the future.
I don't know all the vocabulary for every single component of this procedure, so please excuse me for this.
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As recommended, I marked every component of the driveshaft before the dis-assembly
I did not read this on the other website, but I decided to remove the hand-break assembly. That way, is was much easier to pull the drive-shaft backwards out of the other part.
Here you can see the part of the drive-shaft that remains installed. There is a bigger gap between the grooves in the 2 o'clock position.
However, I could not see any matching grooves in the shaft that I pulled out. So I'm not sure what the purpose of this gap is. Good thing that I marked every single component, so I was able to line it up during the installation.
Comparison of the new and old bearing. The old one came completely apart in the process.
I cleaned up everything real nice,
and then installed the new bearing. I purchased a URO product, which came with an aditional metal ring. It first sight, I wasn't sure what that is supposed to be. But then I figured, it's probably an installation-tool. So I used this ring and the old bearing to tap the new bearing into position.
That was pretty much it. all I had to do then was to put everything back together.
My first test-drive went very smooth, and everything seems to be alligned well.
The only thing I noticed was a slight and short 'knocking' from the area of the new bearing when I accelerated hard from standing still. The 'noise' was not there when I accelerated hard from slow or medium speeds. So I will watch this again tomorrow, and can hopefully find out what the cause might be.
Maybe I just have to move the new bearing slightly left or right to fix this. The is no vibration whatsoever, even at highway-speeds.
Anyway, thanks again for all you help and effort!!
So I have been trying to solve the issue with this short 'Knocking' upon hard acceleration from standing still...unfortunately, without success. I moved the bearing bit by bit and did a short test-drive every time. But no matter how I reposition the center bearing, the knocking remained the same.
I did some more research and I have come up with two possible solutions:
(1) Even though I marked everything before dis-assembly, it is possible that I did not align the rear part of the drive shaft correctly with the front part when I pushed it back in. Do you think this could possibly cause this knocking?
(2) As i mentioned before, I wasn't sure what this thicker metal ring was supposed to be - I had never seen it before in any of the instructions, so I went without it ( I didn't see it in Don's description either - everything looked exactly the same )
It appears that this ring is supposed to be installed somehow (like in this image)
Does anybody who recently performed this repair recall anything about it?
Could this be the reason for the knocking noise?
And one general thing: Standing under the differential looking towards the front of the car, the drive shaft bends a little bit to the left at the center bearing ( The bearing is now in exactly the same spot as the old one was ) Is that normal? Or is the drive shaft supposed to be all straight?
I apologize for all the questions, but I've been trying all day to figure this out and I ran out of ideas by now....
Oh yeah, that looks weird....but the one mark is from a previous repair...it doesn't look like it on the picture, but the marks I made that day are much brighter than the other older mark....
so the drive shaft and the differential are for sure still oriented correctly...
Replacing the Jurid coupling a few days ago caused the center-bearing to fall apart....so I replaced both these parts at the same time...
However, that could be the next issue: I just read that people had problems with URO Jurid couplings (apparently vibrations even though brand new)...
Hopefully somebody else has good experiences with this manufacturer....I've used several rubber parts from URO, and haven't had any problems yet....
So I have been trying to solve the issue with this short 'Knocking' upon hard acceleration from standing still...unfortunately, without success. I moved the bearing bit by bit and did a short test-drive every time. But no matter how I reposition the center bearing, the knocking remained the same.
Hi Ingo,
Good job so far! Regarding your knocking sound on hard acceleration, is it possible the movement of the engine/transmission is moving an exhaust pipe or heat shield into momentary contact with the center bearing? If so, a little adjustment to increase the clearance may be all that is needed.
(2) As i mentioned before, I wasn't sure what this thicker metal ring was supposed to be - I had never seen it before in any of the instructions, so I went without it ( I didn't see it in Don's description either - everything looked exactly the same )
If you'll look at photo 9 in my album, I do mention those parts - I call them "bearing collars" for lack of a better term. Mine were pressed onto the shafts and were in good condition, so I just reused the original ones and left the new ones off. If your old ones came off, it is possible that their absence might lead to some knocking, but I think contact with the exhaust is more likely. I believe the "bearing collars" may just be dust shields.
And one general thing: Standing under the differential looking towards the front of the car, the drive shaft bends a little bit to the left at the center bearing ( The bearing is now in exactly the same spot as the old one was ) Is that normal? Or is the drive shaft supposed to be all straight?
That is correct. The center bearing is positioned "a little left of center," to quote the Jaguar Workshop Manual, which I highly recommend to anyone contemplating this job or any other job beyond an oil or filter change. I think the manuals are still available on affordable DVDs from the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust (jdht.com). If I recall correctly, the reasons the bearing is off-center are to reduce driveshaft/propshaft vibration and to increase the life of the bearing.
Regarding the Jurid (flexible coupling or Giubo), I'm one of those who had a very bad experience with a new one from URO Parts - it just wouldn't balance in any position. I purchased an OE part made by GKN and it balanced on the first try:
For a knocking noise I would be more suspicious of the rear trans mount than the bearing. Even if the bearing is slightly misaligned I don't think it would cause a knock.
Just a quick update on the knocking: I checked everything again, and noticed that this one triangular-shaped exhaust mount is missing.
I'm not sure if I ever had one, or if it just recently fell off.....anyway, I ordered one, and I hope this will get rid of the knocking....
I could swear this knocking was not there before I did the work on the drive-shaft....but it wouldn't be the first time, that my wild imagination cuased myself a headache...
If you'll look at photo 9 in my album, I do mention those parts - I call them "bearing collars" for lack of a better term. Mine were pressed onto the shafts and were in good condition, so I just reused the original ones and left the new ones off. If your old ones came off, it is possible that their absence might lead to some knocking, but I think contact with the exhaust is more likely. I believe the "bearing collars" may just be dust shields.
Yeah, I did it just like you Don, and just cleaned up these collars and left everything as it was. since they were in good shape. I was just wondering about this 'wider' or 'deeper' collar. I did not see this on neither your nor my parts....but I guess you are right, they are probably just dust-shields.
Ingo,
with regard to your missing exhaust mounting, I found mine was missing too. I have a good relationship with my local main dealers parts department, and more than once they have steered me in the direction of the parts I actually needed rather than those I came in to order! When I visited to order the missing rubber (there is a little hard plastic insert too), they smiled wistfully, and observed that "back in the day", the workshop dustbin had been full of these. Apparently, or so the story goes, when the cars were new, if customers complained of "harshness" in the cabin, removal of the triangular mounting rubber was a common "fix", allegedly recommended by Jaguar. Its removal supposedly reduced transmission of vibrations into the centre console/armrest area.
I have always found the dealers advice to be helpful, and as they were effectively talking themselves out of a sale, was inclined to believe it. That said, having looked at the amount of trouble Jaguar had gone to to cause there to be a support in that particular location, I eventually went ahead and replaced the mounting. I can't say that I noticed a bit of difference, and still love the refinement of the interior. The exhaust didn't knock before it was fitted, and still doesn't.
I'm sorry for my late reply, but I was out of the country for a few weeks....
@countyjag: Thank a lot for your input!!! That does make sense, and that's probably why mine was missing too. Anyway, I installed a new one as well in the meantime - but just like you, I don't notice a difference. However, I do not have the hard plastic insert yet. I'd be very thankful if you had a part number if it has one.
For sure it did not solve the knocking upon hard acceleration.
@b1mcp: Thanks for your input about the transmission mount. I took out out and compared it with a new one. The used one appeared totally fine, but it upon close inspection, I noticed that it had been compressed about half an inch or so over the years. So I went ahead and installed the new one.
However, this also did not solve the knocking issue. So I am still trying to figure out what could be the cause....
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I have one theory about what could be the cause:
When I took apart the drive shaft in order to replace the center-bearing, I might have messed up something when I put everything back together.
My specific question:
Is it possible to join the two parts of the driveshaft in the incorrect orientation here? As I mentioned in my original post, I notice only a gap in the one part that remained installed in the 2 o'clock position - but no corresponding groove in the other part. So is it theoretically possible that I misaligned something here? Or does it only fit in one position?
I hope I can get to the bottom of this soon - I hate the feeling, that there is something wrong - and even worse - that I might have caused it myself
Anyway, thank you again for all your help and input!!!
Ingo,
the part number for the hard plastic bush in the triangular exhaust mounting is CAC2750.
On the topic of the knocking, it strikes me that if you had assembled something out of phase, it would tend to manifest itself as a vibration rather than the transient knocking you describe. The fact that you seem to be able to drive across a wide range of speeds without vibration would suggest to me that the driveline is ok, but that something is fouling it on acceleration. As has already been suggested, the exhaust and heat shields would be prime suspects. Without intending to, you may have bent something when manhandling the propshaft in and out.
Thank you for finding the part number for me! I'll get one next week ( unless somebody has one laying around - $15 for this small piece of plastic seems pretty crazy )
About the knocking: I double and triple checked everything again - but all the heat shields and also the exhaust pipes seem to be all tight and where they are supposed to be.
@ Don:
Regarding the Jurid (flexible coupling or Giubo), I'm one of those who had a very bad experience with a new one from URO Parts - it just wouldn't balance in any position. I purchased an OE part made by GKN and it balanced on the first try
Don, how did you notice that your new Jurid coupling did not balance correctly? Did you look at it while the car was in the air and at different speeds? Or did you simply notice a vibration while driving?
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I took a short video of my drive-shaft while the car was in idle. Maybe somebody can see anything suspicious...
That horrible noise is coming from the differential btw....that is the other problem I currently have....it started about 7000 miles ago....so far, I replaced the output-shaft bearings, but it did not resolve the issue. I also exchanged the fluid several times, with only very little shavings each time. The differential always had enough fluid, and it is not leaking.
But maybe we can get to this later in another thread.
So here is the link to the short video on YouTube:
Don, how did you notice that your new Jurid coupling did not balance correctly? Did you look at it while the car was in the air and at different speeds? Or did you simply notice a vibration while driving?
Hi Ingo,
While driving the car, I could hear and feel a very strong, low-frequency rumble and vibration coming from the rear end, rising in intensity with speed.
12-02-2014, 10:22 AM
Help needed: Drive shaft center support replacement
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