1st post in here, so hello everybody!

In future I might be able to share interesting details, as I donīt seem to get rest of trying to solve certain broblems of better performance with cheap, homemade parts, or creative sollutions, if possible.

Shortly now;

1. Is here a knowledge of swapping Ecu from other, same type car, does it need to recode VIN identity to accept new one (or throttle-lambda calibration)?

2. Could these Ecu:s work, if the exchange is done from XJR to XJ8 ?

I think few differences (cam timing or small other) could be tricked, so
there might be a chance to use XJR Ignition values on n/a engine.

I will supercharge either Ls 3.9 or Jaggers own 4.0 in a one way or other with my Eaton m90, which has a little larger pulley than the XJR.

Ls engine is on car, and 2 damaged 4.0 engines are on table, waiting for doctor.

I am after mild boost to add low torque, to make XJ8 little sharper, using original gearbox, that accepts 50-100Nm more, if driven wisely. I think..

Target is to find moderately easy way to enjoy more this car and to share socially the information, this might produce.

Regards Eero

 

Welcome to the forums, FinJag. When you have time please visit the new member area and introduce yourself and your car:

New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum

You are posting in the XJ6 forum, and should be in the X308 XJ8/XJR forum. Perhaps one of the mods will move your post.

The modifications you are considering would be difficult to near impossible. Swapping XK8/XKR ECU does not work, and even using another XJ8 module would probably require dealer software unless the modules had all matching numbers and the cars had the same options. The wiring harnesses are different.
Also, the 5HP24 transmission is marginal and increased power would probably cause the A drum to fail.

 

Welcome to the forum FinJag,

I've moved your question from X300 to X308 forum. Members here with the same model will be able to help with ECM interchangability.

Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some info about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

Well thank You for Your post.


I need good argument before I drop this idea. Factory knowledge or sure issues is needed to make me think this as impossible. Iīm only warming here.


Allready rusty bodyjob done, 3.9 swap-with 4.0 few degrees advanced intake cams axles brakes etc.


Later I might get more software knowledge from Autohorized personal, but I wouldnīt like to go too deep in the swamp of Ecu programming and we are here for sharing?


Denso Ecu mystery should get little opened though.


Cheap pioneer low torque in target, and in my case The Denso mystery is on the way to shortcut proper timing and fueling.


That would save money and time if the XJ8 Ecu could be tricked to take care of the job. Little wiring is no broblem.

 

The XJR ECU will not work in the XJ8 period.
They work on completely different software architecture, for example the R talks a different language to the Mercedes trans fitted...and it gets deeper than that.

If you doubt my advice, go ahead and try!

If you want to get torque, you maybe should have looked out for the XJR instead.

 

Hi FinJag,

I don't know definitively on the X308 (V8), but on the X300 straight six engines, the fuel injectors for the S/C engines have a fuel-flow rate nearly twice that of the N/A (380 cc/minute vs 220 cc/minute). You would probably need to use the S/C injectors, and would probably still need to make some changes in the fuel map.

Have you checked for differences in the S/C and N/A exhaust systems?

As Sean B mentions, since the transmissions are made by different manufacturers, the communications protocols between the ECM and TCM are likely incompatible.

Cheers,

Don

 

Of course, you have already thought about the compression ratio and decided the higher compression is fine, right? And what will run your VVT circuit?

I would think it easier to trick the XJ8 ECM to do what you need than to embark on redefining the XJR ECM to run the XJ8. At least the XJ8 has all the I/O required! I am also pretty sure it would be easier to do a Megasquirt than Frankenstein a Jag ECM.

But... if you go down the path, you might not be successful as you hope, but you will sure know a lot about the X-308 ECM and I look forward to you sharing with the rest of us!

 

Now we are moving.. and less than 20 hours, thank You Sean.

Next:

With R Gearbox and computer + R Ecu and their harness, is there more major issues in a way like the communication brakedown?

If these are on a list, then the boost pressure in on my hands, because I have to open a 4.0 anyway and all modifications are possible. I paid 200€ from one spare engine, so low costs are the way.

Still the Denso mystery lives, there are no one in this world who could tune it, who fabricated it anyway?

I will see some day my friends who work on IT business, as they tune 500HP Saabīs and might be knowing something of this mystery sealed Denso system.

Also in time I might get straight info of Jaguar softwares as one friendīs relative is working on a Dealership.

Still all ideas and pieces of info would be wellcome.

I have soldered computer from set, tuned and made harness for that Ford on my Garage. I had in mind to charge it, but became one Jaguar owner.

As low end torque in mind, there is AJ27 intake cams on my Ls3.9 engine, 4 deg advanced, and slightly shrinked pipe between Cats and middle silencer (cat out size) to save fuel and sharpness on the mostly used driving area.

We speculated that piping with ex Really Top Racing mechanic and I decided to try this.

Making headers for the Jag is now too much for me, and I try not to make all the car again in one man factory.

Simply good sized, lond and small ones could solve my need, but I like to keep the orginal cats also.

Letīs see..

 

Hi FinJag,

We are not trying to discourage you, but to to calibrate your expectations.

Regarding the idea of obtaining knowledge about Jaguar engine management system (EMS) software from a Jaguar dealer, based on my research of the XJ40 (Bosch) system, and the X300 (Lucas-GEMS) system, I think it is unlikely that any Jaguar dealership in the world will have a person on staff who has "inside knowledge" of the X308 EMS. From what I've come to understand about the engineering process, only a handful of Jaguar engineers would have worked directly with representatives of the EMS supplier to develop the maps, which were never made known to dealership mechanics, since their only involvement with the ECM would be to either flash a firmware update (about which they were told very little), or to replace the ECM altogether.

Nippon Denso is a former Toyota division that is now the world's largest manufacturer of automotive parts and systems (Toyota now accounts for less than 50% of Denso's revenue). You can find lots of general information about Denso engine management systems online. Here are just a couple of examples from the top hits of a google search:

Gasoline Engine Management | Denso Global Products

http://www.globaldenso.com/en/techno...es/pdf01_e.pdf

Your real challenge will be to learn the actual Jaguar X308 maps and other critical ECM programming. The only person I am aware of who may be able to assist in your education is Andy Stodart, a former Jaguar engineer whose user name at this forum is XJRengineer. See the threads below for an idea of his knowledge and experience:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...emapped-66907/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...engines-66536/

We're all anxious to see what you can learn!

Cheers,

Don

 

Good post good attitude, thanks!
I allready readed XJRengineer posts and that info I walked to tell my neighbour, who has such Daimler. No new to him though, but as he got the exact info to manipulate a little his car "as hobby". He used to work as top wizard with several serious both turbo and n/a racing projects since 1960īs.

I have "floating" sensor pracket to adjust timing sensor, so I have to study a little those options with wery mild boost and a E85 help in this situation.

We have 2014 EcoBoost and it has 10:1 ratio and matchbox sized turbo, so this as a little guideline I still might manage to make a nice hobby packet with Jag coolers and a little this and that.

Yesterday I was more than 8 hours on computer with this, so far Iīm not going to go to Denso sites today, later will so thanks again.

Today I drive to pick the Famous late 1960īs band and their gears to the nights gig, and when keyboard man asked: "what kind of car do you have",
I said: a quality car.

Yes

 

I have an XJ8 ECM in my 2000 XJR. The difference was when programming it only asked if car was supercharged or not. It works flawlessly. We use Autologic for our scan/programming. Works great.
When i got the car someone had swapped and did not flash. Ran but not properly. after reflash, ran like a top.

 

Randy:
I would say the after you flashed your ECM, you had an XJR ECM, not an XJ8 ECM! FinJag's question was if he could run an XJ8 with a XJR ECM, which I believe the answer is still "NO". Sure, so he can put an XJR ECM in the car, flash it and then he will have an XJ8 ECM running an XJ8, just like he does now, but he won't have the fuel trims, the boost awareness and all the other wonderful things he hoped the XJR ECM might do for him.

BTW, after you flashed the used ECM into the car, do you get any "non matching" complaints on the message window? What did the odometer do?

 

Odometer is not effected and there are no warnings. When looking at ECM VIN it will show donor, but does not matter.

 

"When looking at ECM VIN it will show donor, but does not matter. "
Unless you have to have "Clean Air Act Testing".

 

Good interchange here going on!

It might be just the right way here to drive the engine with Megasquirt, because I am familiar with it, and it is in my other car now connected.

It, in a side with own system, can be solved that easier way, which Iīm after. No experience yet of "siamensed" though.

Well, the engine of Ford is named Frankenstein 3rd, because itīs version. The first assembled in a convertible Mustang last weekend. Spakenzaps mail maked me smile with 2 points.

Pitty is the own Denso is unadjustable.

I have to open one 4.0 so compression are also in table, but Megasquirt and even Methanol injector, adjusted with pressure situations could also be a nice easy way to avoid Detonation.

In one Garage that works with bikes (me too few months) are experienced to make Turbo versions, and the owner throwed me once leaflet of Methanol set.
Bikes donīt have space to play with intercoolers and in Fact Jaguar either.

And with 0.3 bar would it be -0.1 bar after Factory intercoolers, which cost anyway and certainly restrict flow. They are quite difficult with changing injectors and to assemble, I reed from Jlo post.

Ls intake aluminum part could "easily" be modified to make longer tubing across each other and then connect them to rotorcase-without cooling.
Could suit under hood with home made stamp on it. That could be one good move towards low torque target.
They should be modified a little to suit 4.0.

There should be better air change under the hood in any car, couple flects to drive good flow of cool air, earlier had one to cool just battery I heard.

But Ls. has softer pistons etc. -still modern mustangs are boosted here and there without forged pistons, the can last with good tuning and avoiding continious drive with charge on, like Racing track.

By the way, I tried to ask, would there be many other situations, if XJR gearbox and itīs box would be assembled as XJR Engine ECU, does the communication language continue with other modules? Nice to know.

About the own ZF, one mechanic said that A drum sometimes cut pin, and after that the drum failure would be aroud the corner. Easy from N to R or D with throttle.

 

they test here via OBD2 connector and it was a non issue.

 

Hmmh, Well here in Georgia, if the VIN as read from the door frame does not match the VIN as read from the OBD port, you certainly don't get a pass via normal routes. There may be a way to circumvent that, but I had to find a creative option.

 

Wintertime I start to make manifold for supercharger. It is on the table waiting.


It seems that this boost will be done like this:


E 85 -higher octane (yesterday friends assembled normal comp engine and in deed they said itīs the thing to maintain compression high - though in higher boosts, they drop advances, in lower - not much).


Discussion in a side they assembled, it was clear, if You use alcohol on car, it is stupid not to boost it same time.


They boost 1 to 3 bar. So in my 0.3 only added fuel -alcohol- could be inuf, without radical advance retarding. Better fuel milage with normal drive, in all these cars, high boosted also!


I will study more that box, that Jlo throwed in forum, he was trying to do Flexifuel XJR, but sold his car, Iīwe been told here.


Adding fueling a little is still open, but would be solved, should be close 13:1 -and Megasquirt was good throw By one, but traction control - electronic throttle could cause difficulties, they usually do.


Also good info of 5HP found here, and the oversize pressure walve is quite must soon -see if my friend has tools to bore the valve body. Has to be TOP machining.


Couple sellers offer A drums that are little stiffer, about 120$, service type check (comlete tear) would be nice to do, as there are O-ring in the middle of that box, that cut it self sometimes, and causes those hydraulic shocks, that could brake this and that.


I believe serviced gear will take litttle more torque. They have been in more powerful cars than XJ8.


I found that torque capasity of 5HP24 dropped to 440Nm from 5HP30īs 550Nm partly because, new electronics lighten the throttle a little on gear change situations, that way they made it 23kg lighter with thinner parts.


I droved early in this Morning and night moisture was in air, as well temperature was little low.
The XJ8 is allmost nice, when the engine is not too hot, it reved all the way, like there was a nice fresh luxury sport engine, quite sharp..still..more a little.

 

Hi - this thread is above my paygrade but pertains to my problem. I have a 1999 xj8. 80,000 miles. Very good condition. error codes p1646 and p1000. O2 sensor and OBD not completing. So...do i just change the O2 sensor and that will take care of the p1000 code? does the p1000 code mean i need a new ecm? What might my logical next step be?

 

P1000 just means internal checks by ECU not complete. After a few drive cycles it becomes P1111.