A couple of questions here...

I had the rear wheels on my 98 XJR off the ground today and gave the wheels a shake to see if there was any play in them. I may be mistaken, but thought that in the past they were pretty solid. Today, both sides had some play in them. I am guessing I could rock the top of the wheel in and out by maybe 1/4". It felt as if the lug nuts were slightly loose, which of course were not.

I think I read somewhere on this forum where it was suggested that 1/4" was acceptable. My question is... is it acceptable, or normal?

After finding the play I crawled under for a look. The only place I could see slight movement was at the hub carrier pivot bolt and maybe a tiny amount on the outboard u-joint on the drivers side...( other than the wheel movement)

That movement aside, I have suspected a few things in the rear suspension as the rear wheels sometimes seem to slam down pretty hard when encountering rough road. (which is somewhat annoying). I know the XJR's are supposed to be stiffer than regular XJ's but mine can be pretty rough on some conditions. That and some clunking that occurs if I accelerate quickly in reverse from a stop. I rarely do that, but it will cause an audible clunk pretty consistently.

I guess I could be heading for another major project, which would take some resolve for me to tackle. For now, there are no real handling issues, but the fact that I can move those wheels is troubling. Perhaps wheel bearings or pivot pin bearings... or is the 1/4" play normal?

 

Well I would say that 1/4" is not acceptable and I'm pretty sure that in the UK that would be an MOT test fail.

There should be no play at all in the hub pivot bearings/bolt. You should investigate and remedy that that asap.

 

Thanks... I was pretty sure it was abnormal, but thought I had seen a post where someone said it was acceptable. I was probably dreaming.

Have since found a thread where Brutal said 1/4" was way too much and had to replace his wife's hub as a result of too much wear.

I did see Avt007s thread on replacing the pivot with the hub carrier in the car, as he could not get the hub carrier off. That looked like a frustrating.. but successful exercise.

Now to decide on tackling myself or throwing out the cash. After reading the manual, and assuming my hub carrier will come off, I am wondering if the special tools are really essential for pressing out old and in with new? Does anyone know if it can be done with a basic press and an assortment of cups and receivers?

Will think about this. If I do one side, I might be better at it for the second side... ha ha.

 

FYI, mine moves up/down a little bit, not sure if it's a 1/4 inch or not. My play seemed to be internal to the differential.

 

JWT

I've done both of these jobs a few times over the years. The rear hub is the same (more or less) on XJ40, X300, X308 so if you're a habitual Jag owner you get practice.

I don't have any very special tools for this. I have a piece of an old steering wheel puller that is L shaped at the end that I added an extension to (a bolt) and that works well on the pivot bearing to get the old inner race out (see pic). New ones going in is simple tap in with suitable drift.

I also have the end of an old drive shaft and the standard hub nut that I use as a puller to pull the new wheel bearings in to the hub.

Reading the instructions for this job in the manual makes it sound a bit daunting but it's actually straight forward.

Good luck with it.

 

Thanks Rob,
I had my son rocking the wheel as I was trying to see what was moving. He debated that it was 1/4", thinking it was less. Still, I am pretty sure this is a recent development as I had checked them not too long ago and they certainly felt different this time. A bit odd that both sides are affected. Not being familiar with how they are assembled, I was not 100% certain that seeing some movement on a pivot shaft was beyond reason. The feel of it was more alarming, as it seemed a bit like loose lug nuts to me. My son said the same thing, so there is definitely free play. There is no audible signs of trouble... yet.
Did you replace wheel bearings at the same time?

I am thinking the there may not be visible pivot movement with a wheel bearing issue. Will start looking for parts and think some more about delving into it myself.

 

Keep us posted. I think I have the same play you're referring to. It is only in the up down axis and none in left right.

 

Thanks Brendan,
You are right about the manual making it seem somewhat daunting, if not downright confusing.The end play adjustment procedure seems to be somewhat repetitive, first with no grease, then with grease packed bearings, then the final shim adjustment to the 0.076mm spec . I am not sure what the first no-grease go around is for? Maybe it will come to me... dooh!

 

Hello! I have a XJR8 -97 which also have this free play up/down but not right left for both sides??? Surely, this can't be the wheel bearings?
I wounder if it's actually the lower suspension bushes... Have orderd anyhow something is making soo much noise...
Good luck with remeding the problem. /Per

 

Per,
Like yours, mine only has vertical play, not side to side. That leads me to think it is the Pivot Pin Bearings, and perhaps not the wheel bearings. I guess I was originally wondering if some movement was normal when the weight is off the suspension.
This will be a new endeavour for me (as many of my DIY projects), so am looking for as much help from knowledgeable folks as I can get.

Although avt007's "in-situ" approach was not according to his original plan, it has me wondering if replacing pivot pin bearings are commonly done without removing the hub carrier. If the job is done before it gets to the difficult situation he had on the extraction... maybe it is an option?

 

Same problem on mine, it's the "output shaft bearing" the bearing of the shaft that connects to the half-shafts. It's located in the differential, it's a 150-200 dollars bearing, code JLM20337. In the car's repair manual, it's mentioned that if there is some end-float it must be changed.
As a symptom, I have vibrations at high speed, coming from the back, and the wheel is moving 1/4 inch or more at 6 o'clock shacking...

 

Jaguar XJ8/XK8 Diff' Shaft Bearing NEW (JLM20337) | eBay

 

Thanks Flay, I guess that is one more thing for me to investigate. According to the manual, the end float is supposed to be max. 0.015mm which I guess is just shy of binding. Will start with a visual check, and then maybe see if I can get my dial gauge mounted. Hope to find time on the week-end.

 

Found time to price out parts at the dealer for both output shaft and hub carrier. Most components were pretty reasonable, but the output shaft bearings are outrageous! I am wondering if these are Jag specific, or if they could be obtained at a bearing shop. I priced out the ABS sensor ring too, as I read where one chap broke his. Great care required there, as my price was $320.00 for one of those. The output shaft bearing was pretty much the same.

Will look more closely tomorrow to see how much play I find and where. Again, it seems pretty much all restricted to 12 o'clock - 6 o'clock movement, so with my limited knowledge so far on this... pivot and/or output shaft bearings are the suspects.

Why did I shake those wheels??? No symptoms while driving and no tell-tale noises are apparent.

 

I suggest changing the output shaft bearing first as it's more simple job (just the 4 nuts of the half-shaft and a circlip holding the bearing in the diff carrier. There is an aluminum collar that holds the bearing to the shaft, it must be replaced also,see in the manual. Then you can see if the hub bearings needs to be changed.
No need for the ABS ring, if you can arrange for a refund with the seller you will save some big money.
The hub bearings need more skilled work, a puller and a press are needed,a special big nut for the half-shaft, some shims to clear the extra end-float, more difficult.
If you have a picture with the output shaft bearing, put it here please, maybe I can see a code for the equivalent size.

 

I looked at the half shaft bearings as I'm in a process of replacing the whole differential with a HU15 unit. They are jaguar specific and not just some generic bearing as they incorporate some smear/seal rings and even the outside of the bearing is notched to accept an o-ring.

I broke the pinion shaft in my old differential and the axle stub shafts that I have appear to be in good shape and the bearings are tight. Let me know if you guys want them as I was just going to list them on eBay.


Adam

 

That sounds like an option. Are you talking about the bearings and the stub shaft with the bearings still pressed on them?
As mentioned, I plan on delving a bit deeper on this tomorrow to see what kind of end play I have on the output shaft, vs the pivot bearings.

Perhaps I will PM you. I guess if there is not too many miles on them, it could be a consideration.

Thanks

Wayne

 

I put a dial guage on the drivers side output shaft flange and only got .002 - .003" end float, so I am starting to think I should just leave it alone for a while. I believe .006" is the recommended limit. Will check the other side tomorrow if I get a chance. With the design of the rear axle system, incorporating a pivot it seems like a bit of movement would be understandable. Also, after taking a closer look at the amount of movement on the wheel, it is probably more like 1/8" and not as pronounced as I had first thought. If I get a similar result on the other side, I will probably just keep an eye on it for now.. unless one our esteemed Jag Techs chimes in with their opinion. Not that I don't want to fix it, but I really don't want to fix it if it "aint broke". Especially since you are playing with the alignment. Wish I was blessed with more expertise.

 

I agree, mine moves as well, but not much, and I can't feel it when driving.

 

And you replaced your pivot pin, bearings and wheel bearings if I recall correctly. The movement you had in all directions would seem to indicate wheel bearings, at least to me in my limited knowledge. So now if you have slight movement only in a vertical direction, one would think the system may allow some of that. Otherwise, your output shaft bearings, or u-joints would be suspect perhaps. If the .002" movement I am getting signals the start of trouble, I may just keep checking for a while to see if it changes.
Again, just looking at the set-up, it seems that it would move a bit if you put reasonable pressure on the top of the wheel. I can see the top of the hub carrier moving in and out a bit, but that is the only visible sign, aside from the .002" end float... which you can not see without a dial gauge.