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I think it is a great buy: tires look brand new; very clean. If it has the keys, buy it. Offer 8; haggle; worst you would have to pay would be nine, ne?
One of the things I love about these cars is how cheap they are used. The seller might argue that they've put a bunch of money into it, that was their decision and they can keep it..
I like that they're cheap too but that also comes at the cost of many of these cars being severely neglected. I scour Craigslist to see what's on the market and the reoccurring pattern is this: Somebody buys an X308 because they can drive a Jag for peanuts and then of course doesn't bother taking care of things like these tensioners. Car starts running rough or even engine damage occurs then he wants to get rid of it. It's truly a sad spectacle. There is a '99 VDP for sale not far from me that has a mint interior that suffered this.
I certainly would pay more for a car that had a meticulous owner, especially if he has documentation of work done.
AJ,
I agree wholeheartedly. I look CL over everyday, even though my driveway is bursting at the seams. Mostly I figure I don't want to wait until I need something to start looking, I'll never get what I want that way.
Parts are not cheap for these old beauties and they need work occasionally (what four wheeled conveyance doesn't?). I do all my own work as well and now that spring is here I'll be swapping my newly re-bearinged front knuckle assemblies to see if the wandering over bumps and road crowns goes away. Then I'll continue to accumulate hoses in anticipation of renewing all the rubber under the hood while I pull the supercharger for new oil. My wife tracks our expenses and reminds me every time she spots a new Jag receipt on her desk that this is not a cheap car, even though the initial purchase price was! I'm just happy every time I sit down and drive the old girl, priceless I tell her!
Yep, Jag ownership is truly a rewarding hobby. Since I mentioned this car I might as well post it. I spoke to the seller and he said he was driving, heard a noise, and the engine died. He described the noise as more the misfire type rather than the aweful metal crunching metal. Anyways, what are your general opinions on this car? Provided the pistons didn't contact the valves, what would be a reasonable price to offer for it? I don't want to insult the guy but it is has to be worthwhile for me to get involved in a project like this https://racine.craigslist.org/cto/d/...834422330.html
Yep, Jag ownership is truly a rewarding hobby. Since I mentioned this car I might as well post it. I spoke to the seller and he said he was driving, heard a noise, and the engine died. He described the noise as more the misfire type rather than the aweful metal crunching metal. Anyways, what are your general opinions on this car? Provided the pistons didn't contact the valves, what would be a reasonable price to offer for it? I don't want to insult the guy but it is has to be worthwhile for me to get involved in a project like this https://racine.craigslist.org/cto/d/...834422330.html
1999, 106,000+ miles, "a few dents", "has rust bubbles", "doesn't start",
I would leave well alone, let him keep his troubles
I too have never been able to get 100% clarification regarding the timeline for the different timing chain tensioners. It is my understanding that the initial tensioners were hydraulically operated, but without spring tension, so on start up there could/would be chain rattle until the hydraulic tensioners were activated. Jaguar introduced a new style tensioner that was spring loaded as well as hydraulically operated to cure this cold start problem.
Later, as these cars aged it was discovered that the plastic construction of the tensioners degraded over time, leading to the cam chain being able to jump a tooth. This would cause poor running, and if the chain jumped a second tooth the valves would hit the pistons.
The tensioners and guides were again redesigned and made of metal to cure the problem once and for all, BUT, actually when these metal tensioners were introduced is hazy. I have read that they did not go into production cars until the X350 model, but have also read rumors that they did make it into some very later 2003 x308 cars. I'm unsure what the truth is, maybe a bonafide expert who was working on these cars at the time can clarify the true timeline?
Until then, I would assume that the 2002 car in question has the plastic tensioners, and it should be anticipated and financially calculated that all 4 tensioners and all 4 guides need to be replaced.
.
Recently got some additional info from the seller that I'd like your opinion on. The seller DID have the tensioners replaced at a [respected] British auto specialty mechanic at around 70k miles in 2012 or 2013, but he wasn't sure if they were simply replaced with new MKII tensioners or upgraded to the all metal MKIII tensioners. My guess is that he trusted this mechanic and just gave him the go-ahead without asking for the details. I called the mechanic and they recently switched to a new computer system and wouldn't be able to find the documentation for that repair. Darn.
My question is this...
Would a respected Jag mechanic likely replace MKII tensioners with the same faulty design? Or is it probable that he replaced with the all metal tensioners? Of course, this is speculation but still curious what you all think. Also I must ask before someone else does, should I even care if he did use new MKII tensioners in the repair, since they now would only have ~20k miles on them?
I would find it highly unlikely that the shop would replace with anything but the later metal tensioners. Now the question is did they replace just the secondary (top) tensioners, or did they do the full job and also replace the primary (lower) tensioners and guides. The owner should have the bill, and the price will tell you what was done. And yes, I would care if the car has metal tensioners or not, there have been cases of the plastic types failing after quite low mileages,.....(and yet other instances of them surviving for quite high mileages)
The secondary (top) tensioner can be viewed by removing a valve cover (not such an easy job on a SC car!) to determine if it is of the metal type, but a scope would be needed to view the primary (lower) tensioners..
I've owned 2 XJ8 Jaguars and 2 XJR Jaguars; I don't think the cam covers are that different to remove. Removing the cam cover on a supercharged car isn't particularly difficult. I would first get the engine serial number. It's an actual date code and if it's later than August 2001 (like my 2002 XJR engine) then you should have the metal timing gear.
I've owned 2 XJ8 Jaguars and 2 XJR Jaguars; I don't think the cam covers are that different to remove. Removing the cam cover on a supercharged car isn't particularly difficult. I would first get the engine serial number. It's an actual date code and if it's later than August 2001 (like my 2002 XJR engine) then you should have the metal timing gear.
Thanks, harvest14. I'll try to get that engine number from the seller. So you're saying that your 2002 XJR has original, factory fitted 3rd generation all metal primary and secondary tensioners and guides?
Yes, and the upgraded primary chain, oil pump etc. I had a 2003 XJR before this car and it was exactly the same. I refused to buy my current 2002 XJR until the seller let me climb underneath and verify the engine serial number. I had done the full timing gear job on a previous XJ8 I had owned and did NOT want to go through that again for an XJR, no matter how beautiful it was.
Yes, and the upgraded primary chain, oil pump etc. I had a 2003 XJR before this car and it was exactly the same. I refused to buy my current 2002 XJR until the seller let me climb underneath and verify the engine serial number. I had done the full timing gear job on a previous XJ8 I had owned and did NOT want to go through that again for an XJR, no matter how beautiful it was.
Promising info, harvest14 and I don't blame you. I did find an older thread here that clarifies which engines had the all metal timing parts. Any car with engine number 0108130000 onward. Engine numbers are manufacture dates backwards, so any engine built after 12:00am on August 13th, 2001 was equipped with all metal timing parts.
Fingers crossed regarding the engine number of the XJR I'm interested in. However, the fact that the seller told me his tensioners had been worked on in the past is not promising...
The engine number is an indication of its build date and can be found stamped on the left side of the block and can be viewed via the left wheel well.
eg: 010201 02:41 (my engine number) 01=2001 02=Feb 01=1st day 02:41= time of day.
Fingers crossed regarding the engine number of the XJR I'm interested in. However, the fact that the seller told me his tensioners had been worked on in the past is not promising...
The engine number is an indication of its build date and can be found stamped on the left side of the block and can be viewed via the left wheel well.
eg: 010201 02:41 (my engine number) 01=2001 02=Feb 01=1st day 02:41= time of day.
That's the exact thread I was referencing - apologies for not posting the link. And thank you for the instructions on how how to access the engine number. Will see if I can get that number tomorrow.
Thanks for joining the conversation! Good to hear from someone with a twin. Have you had any issues with the CATS suspension?
I haven’t had any issues with my CATS suspension.
At what mileage did you replace the secondary tensioners and what did it cost you, if you don't mind? Were they the metal body tensioners with some plastic parts? Is it common to only need the secondary tensioners replaced on this MY, rather than both secondary and primary?
That’s good the previous owner had new tensioners installed. I did secondaries around 60k as I recall and I think it was in the $600 range to do them. I could dig out my invoice to look exactly if you want but you just found out your car already has them. I didn’t do the primaries or the guides and they looked good when I had my secondaries done.
My online research and after discussing it with my mechanic regarding the necessity of doing the primaries and guides in addition to the secondaries revealed the secondaries are a necessity but the primaries and guides aren’t. They secondaries must be done because they could cause catastrophic engine failure. The primaries and guides don’t, at least they don’t normally. I think most people recommend doing it all, however, while you are doing the secondaries for convenience sake. I decided to wait because my mechanic said it wasn’t necessary and my car has relatively low enough mileage.
That’s good the previous owner had new tensioners installed. I did secondaries around 60k as I recall and I think it was in the $600 range to do them. I could dig out my invoice to look exactly if you want but you just found out your car already has them. I didn’t do the primaries or the guides and they looked good when I had my secondaries done.
My online research and after discussing it with my mechanic regarding the necessity of doing the primaries and guides in addition to the secondaries revealed the secondaries are a necessity but the primaries and guides aren’t. They secondaries must be done because they could cause catastrophic engine failure. The primaries and guides don’t, at least they don’t normally. I think most people recommend doing it all, however, while you are doing the secondaries for convenience sake. I decided to wait because my mechanic said it wasn’t necessary and my car has relatively low enough mileage.
XJDanny - would you mind sharing your engine number if you have it?
Joined this forum to comment on this thread.. Awesome info in here guys, much like OP I have also been searching for the right 02/03 XJR and have been trying to find this kind of info.
**Have we determined that, depending on the build date/engine number, it is possible to get an XJR with ALL METAL timing tensioners and guides?**
I currently have an E39 M5 and have had many BMW V8's with guide issues (and rod bearings etc etc). Not afraid of it.. just want to get the best set up I can, much like OP!!!
That black 02 in AZ looks really clean. I had been eyeing but it's out of my price range.
Hi all,
As the OP, I thought I’d give an update on the outcome of my initial inquiry about the 2002 XJR. The information that everyone provided here played a huge role in my eventual successful purchase of the vehicle on Wednesday of this week. I’ll start by saying that the process from my initial contact with the seller to purchase was about 2 months! Longest its ever taken me to purchase a car, but in the end, the distance proved to be a challenge, combined with busy life/travel/work/etc . However, the fact that the vehicle was located in a small town with a limited market worked to my advantage.
Some brief info about the vehicle: came with it’s 3 original keys (2 black, 1 green) and both fobs. Tires are nearly new. Supercharger has upgraded lower pulley. One of the cleanest 91k mile interiors I think I’ve seen – either in person or online, BaT, Ebay, etc. No rips, tears, or flaking in the driver’s seat, passenger seat looks very lightly used and I don’t think the rear seat has had more than 10 visitors. Body has been very well taken care of, always garaged and only a couple very minor paint blemishes. Listed at $9k, I offered $8k. I will say that I didn’t pay $9k and I didn’t pay $8k.
Ok now down to some details that I think will help with the ongoing confusion regarding the timing parts in these vehicles…
About four weeks ago, I was easily able to attain the engine number for this vehicle by calling my local Jaguar dealer and providing them with the VIN. Took the service tech about 3 minutes to pull up the vehicle information. The engine number for this vehicle is 0109200048, which means it was built at 12:48am on September 20, 2001. It has been stated in this thread (and others) that engines built after August 13, 2001 have all metal timing parts and upgraded primary chain, oil pump, etc. and I confirmed that this engine had the upgraded engine parts during its pre purchase inspection at a respected Jaguar mechanic. (A quick clarification; I had mentioned in one of my earlier posts that the owner told me he thought he had work done on the timing parts, but wasn’t sure what was done. This was incorrect and he had gotten confused with the upgrade he had a shop complete on the supercharger).
I’m hoping this information helps anyone that may come across this thread in the future and thank you again for all the help with my journey to purchase my first Jaguar! Looking forward to many years with this XJR!
03-20-2019, 11:37 AM
