Hello everybody,
i recently got 2001 XJ, 3.2. It was my dream car since probably i opened eyes in my crib and when i bought it, it was like wedding. Car was feeling awesome asides from minor issues and i thought that i just made a deal of century. My car had 120000 and appears to be driven by a businessman who just didnt cared much about the car, but didnt raced or crashed either so ok.
Since 72 days ago when i got it, it have been in service many times, for regular checkup, and this and that, just to make it perfect daily car and get love it deserves.
Now i have a problem i want your opinion about it. When i bought it, it was driving perfect smooth, cold or warm, silent. We did in a shop (i trust them but they are not a jag shop) gearbox oil change together with filter and bottom cover. They used Liqui Moly which was supposed to be certified for it.
Now my jag is making weird noises coming from gearbox, sounds like metal on metal whining when it shifts from first to second and to third gear. It is louder when you are havier on gas. It still drives smooth, no bangig or so. I have driven about 100km since to see if it settles down.
What did i do wrong? I just wanted to preventive change oil because it was obviously never done on it
What to do?

 

Unfortunately I can't help on your problem. Just wanted to mention that as far as I now the gearbox oil certified by ZF is Esso LT 71141.

 

I would double check the viscosity of the fluid that was put in, and the level of it.
Sounds like you have either not enough fluid, or the fluid is too thin. Get it up on the rack ASAP!

 

ok, thank you. I was assured they know what they are doing and they were rechecking the oil level before i left.
hm, back to the car shop i guess...
my poor baby.

 

p.s. that Liqui Moly oil was also suggested as alternative by Jaguar (seen the email they got back from them).

 

Sandy, Sandy,.......as one German to another (inherited annal perfectionism to the "T"!),.....why put in the "alternative"? Why not the SAME ATF that was in it from when the car was new? Did your shop drain the converter? I would guess they did not. In that case, ....you have the old, original fluid in your converter, and you added the "alternative" fluid. So now these two are mixing, and mixing fluids is never a good idea. Who knows what is going on inside, ......foaming, cavitation,....just guessing.

At this point (if it's my car which BTW has appx same ammount of mileage as yours), I would drain ALL the fluid (converter included), and refill with original, factory fluid, no "alternatives".

There is a procedure to drain ALL fluid, that you can find on the web (I did it on my MBZ S430). It takes a LOT of fluid, but no disassembly is needed. Or maybe your trusted shop has a way to drain the converter, and start over?

Search "DIY transmission fluid replacement", and you'll find the method I'm talking about.

 

hi Daniel, thank You. Hm it cost me 330Eur to change the oil in the gearbox, i hope to not have it done again, but as it seems, i will have to. The original was 58Eur per litter of oil, i opted for "as good as original". The Liqui Moly is considered pretty high end here in Germany.

I will ask them if they drained it completely. I was warning them about to do it perfect, and that it is complicated, but (probably reasonably so) they just noged at girl making car suggestions and said they know what they are doing. *sigh*

I asked here because i was hoping that somebody would jump in and said "hey i had this same experience, it took this and that fixed".

When i was on phone with them, they said that probably something in the gearbox broke when it got new oil and was hold together by older, tougher oil. I have no idea.

 

Holly smokes! That's a lot of money for 1 litre!! "Something broke inside, because it was held together by a tougher oil"? That sounds like a big BS to me. Sure you trust these people?

I hope someone that lives in Germany will chime in, and recommend a trusted shop where you can go for a second opinion (and to have the original work evaluated).

I lived in Munich for many years, and I can find some recommendations for you in Bavaria, hopefully someone that lives close to you will read this, and give you the place to go.

Here in the States they have a good saying: "If it's not broken, don't try to fix it." Too late now. I mean,....of course you wanted it serviced and all (I am about to do the same thing to my cat), but don't believe the mechanics that don't specialize in Jaguars, and if you do opt to have the work performed by someone with the knowledge in general auto repair, YOU need to be the one with the specific Jaguar knowledge (or ask the cat owners over here, in advance!), and tell them EXACTLY what to do.

I wish you the best of luck with your cat, and let us know how it plays out.

 

A fluid flush will take the grit/or grease that is usually at deposited in
operating areas, and often clog breather lines/ other parts when
pressure blasted where it shoudn't go. Flushes may be more reasonable
in terms of price, but my family has lost 2 gearboxes to flush. they never
survive more than 200 miles. the winter it could last as much as 500
Miles before it destroys vital components from unnexessary heat/pressure.

If they didn't drop the pan, and he flushed it instead... then they may
very well have killed your gearbox.

If you can go back, have them drop the pan, and replace the oil 2L at
a time, over a period of weeks. But if chunks or viscous grease have
clogged precious breather lines, or any body which depends on fluid
passing through, it is not even a good idea to drive it to the shop. Tow
truck, time to call the ADAC.

 

wow, now you are scaring me. Actually i didnt wanted to change the oil, but the guy who sold me the jag told me that it is "forever sealed" but that i should do it anyway.
any idea where the breather lines are? How will i find if they are clogged?
They did dropped and switched the pan (and filter), is it then good?
Oh yea. Luckily enough i dont need a car as much over winter, but i feel sorry for her :-(, and me...

I know a good jag service but they are official and quite pricey. With this shop, they are not jag dedicated but in the past i had good experience with them (also fixing my rover i had before) and i kind of believed they know what they are doing... Not so much sure now :-(.

 

Hi
Are you getting any fault messages such as "gearbox fault" displayed in the driver's information/message center (located at the bottom of speedometer gauge).

After we had our 2001 XJ8 ZF transmission rebuild, about a a week later the gearbox fault appeared in the message center and 2 more liters of transmission fluid was need to fix the issue.

Jim Lombardi

 

first thank You all for the interest in my issue!
Jim, no, there is no light emited. It also shifts still very smoothly, there is only shortly some screetching noise when it shifts from first to second and second to third gear under a little load. When i accelerate very very slow, it does not do that. When i accelerate little harder it is not really louder.

 

Hello again
If you are able to record the sounds on a camera with video recording and upload to youtube.com website, then maybe someone on the forum will able to give you what is the issue is and how to resolve it.

Once you have uploaded the video, you can copy the weblink to the video and insert the link (using insert link tool) in a new post in this thread.

Jim Lombardi

 

i will try it, thank you!
I got in contact with them, they assured me that they drained also the torque converter (i guess it is what Wandler) in English means, they used
Moly ATF 1200oil.

LIQUI MOLY - Motorenöle, Additive, Autopflege - Produkte - Top Tec ATF 1200

It wanted about 10l of it they said.
When you type on their website my Jag, it also recommends it as oil for the gearbox.

 

I was merely referencing a conversation my mechanic and
I had about the dangers of flushing. Be careful of driving the
car! If it feels like doom is impending, the colder it is outside,
the less damage.

DIY Report: Transmission Flush 722.6 2005 E500 - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

The connections to the trans cooler are more important than the breather
I think.

 

ok so here it is

you can hear it (it sounds here little like F1 race car passing by), i was just cruising the parking place). It is also not relevant to the speed or pedal, it just makes that noise when you come at some speed (different based on how hard you press the gas) makes this sound and then is silent again.

jump to 1:08 and 1:40.

then at 4:05, it accelerates then at you hear it on 4:16-

it just at certain speed comes and then leaves. It is not so audible here but is louder then engine is in the cabin.



also when we are at it, can you tell me what this sound is? It makes it when i switch the keys off


it is not antennae retracting, that comes much later.

THANKS!

 

the first file is low on fluid, ZF trans is a difficult beast to fill.

My BMW 740il had the ZF tranny.

1. THE CAR HAVE TO BE COLD, SIT OVER NIGHT COLD!!!!
2. Drain, in a container, mark container where old oil stops, then dump.
3. Fill container up to the mark level with new oil.
4. Fill trans with new oil till it drips, install filller screw.
5. Start car, shift through all gears twice, shut of car.
6. Measure trans temp. do not proceed if over 70 degrees, if so wait,
7. Fill more of the new oil into tranny until it drips, install filler bolt.
8. Start car and shift through all gears twice. shut off car.
9. Mearsure trans temp. do not proceed if over 70 degress, if so wait.
10. The remaining fluid should be pumped into the trans. Add if more is needed, pump new oil until it drips. install filler bolt.
11. Start car shift through all gears, twice, leave car running, remove filler bolt, add fluid until it drips. install filler bolt.
12. Take for 5 minute test drive, hitting all speeds, manually shifting through all gears.
13. Wait till trans temp is below 70 degrees.
14. If fluid drips out, install filler bolt, job completed.
15. If no fluid drips, add more fluid until drips.
16. Start car, shift through all gears twice.
17. Remove filler bolt, if fluid drips reinstall bolt take for test drive.
18. Remove filler bot, if fluid drips, job completed, if not start from line 15

Yes, it is time comsuming, if doing by yourself. But, it worth it, by not replacing the trans.

The second file, I have the same exact noise, it seem like the vents are closing.

SGB

 

thank you, i will forward it to them, hope they will not start hating me for putting a nose in their work.
i certainly cannot do it my self, would not spare any time doing it, but i sadly cannot. Will keep you informed!

 

Sandy,

if you feel uncomfortable with your workshop now you might start to search a ZF partner workshop to have them a look at your cat. Every major city in Germany has at least one ZF partner, either in the city or in its vicinity.

It might be a problem if you live quite rural, but even then worth a thought.

If you're interested you can start your search here:

ZF Friedrichshafen AG | Service-Netzwerk weltweit

 

Hi
I listened to your audio recording and it might be related to the operation of the Transmission Torque Converter (maybe the flywheel).

Forum member Brutal mentions a way to test to see if the noise is coming from the Torque Converter:

"you might try the same quick test - do you hear this rumble, at the same road speed, in both the S mode and in the Regular mode?

wondering what might be causing the noise and what might be different between being in S vs regular mode - the torque converter lock-up in regular mode might be that difference.

Does the torque converter unlock in S mode at that speed? You can tell by driving until you hear the 'rumble' and slightly modulate the throttle, while watching the tachometer - if the tach moves with your throttle motion the converter is unlocked; if the tach only changes with road speed it is locked. Compare this between S mode and regular mode - I'll bet the converter is locked in regular (making the noise) and unlocked in S (not making the noise). "

I also created this JPEG file of XJ model Driver's Manual page that shows the Gear Shift modes Button that activates the Sport Mode (I added the red arrows in the text and diagram):



This test might lead you to what is causing the noise and if it is the Torque Converter, (if it is) then it still can be the transmission fluid level or it can be that the transmission needs to be removed to find and fix the problem.

Jim Lombardi