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Once again I turn to my friends here to get some input and advice...
After finally resolving a number of issues with my 2001 XJR that included: auto-trans rebuild (~AUD$7.5k), tensioners (~AUD$3k), front suspension overhauled, replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat, lots of hoses and many smaller things....it seams as if I might have cracked head gasket. Sigh.
After nearly 6 months of no overheating and purring like big cat I noticed a coolant low warning message, the car didn't appear to have overheated and the OBDII/Torque app showed it had not exceeded 105*C / 225*F. On refilling it lost about 2 litres in 15 mins driving. Being too far from my preferred mechanic (a well known Jaguar specialist) I stopped at a local mechanic took a quick look and said the overflow tank had cracked and that it was blowing a lot of white smoke that smelt of coolant. He said he was 99% sure it was a head gasket.
It's booked in to see my mechanic next week, but of course I'm bracing myself for the worst despite him saying there are other things that could cause this.
In Australia repairing the head gasket is about a AUD$6k job. A 2001 XJR will sell for about AUD$20k here.
Is it worth trying something like Rislone (head gasket fix) or are these products just stop-gap measures that just delay the inevitable?
Also...would using a product like Rislone make it more difficult for my mechanic to diagnose the current issue?
Not really sure what I'm asking here. My friends aren't mechanically minded and are probably sick of hearing about my car woes!
Last edited by EscapedApe; Jun 10, 2020 at 01:36 AM.
Reason: Title change
...a local mechanic took a quick look and said the overflow tank had cracked and that it was blowing a lot of white smoke that smelt of coolant. He said he was 99% sure it was a head gasket.
If the overflow tanks has cracked, I would first replace it. It is a wild guess to blame the cylinder head gasket(s). You did not mention whether you earlier also replaced the overflow tank with a new one. It is not uncommon for these tanks to develop leaks and I heard that even some new aftermarket ones leak from the start. So, get a new genuine Jag overflow tank and see how it goes after replacement.
If it were blowing a lot of white smoke from a head gasket, you should be able to smell a somewhat sweet odor as well from the tail pipe. Plus you say it didn't rise above 225, this doesn't sound like a head gasket. You would probably have a fowled plug and cause a misfire code. Not for sure, but if its supposedly that bad, it should.
liquid head gasket sealants do work surprisingly well, especially on cracked heads or blocks but should always be used as a last resort on worthless engines. the local auto parts store should sell a combustion test kit to see what’s going on. obviously first go check the tank out.
@M. Stojanovic @Highhorse
I believe the [genuine] cracked overflow bottle is a result of the car building up too much pressure. It was only a couple of months ago since it had a pressure-check and coolant check as part of a health check after the tensioners were done. There is also a lot of crystal build-up around some of the coolant hoses.
When the local garage took a quick look they said the workshop filled with the smell of coolant and white smoke.
@xalty
It may be my last resort, even if it's not the engines! After spending more than $13k in the last 6 months I don't know if I can invest another $6k into her.
I believe the [genuine] cracked overflow bottle is a result of the car building up too much pressure. There is also a lot of crystal build-up around some of the coolant hoses. When the local garage took a quick look they said the workshop filled with the smell of coolant and white smoke.
Too much pressure should not crack the overflow bottle as this is what the pressure cap is for. The cap (unless it is faulty) reliefs any excessive pressure thus limiting to what pressure the cooling system can be exposed (1 Bar or 14 Psi, which is not very high) and all components of the cooling system are designed to withstand that pressure. Older overflow tanks may develop cracks simply because the plastic is old.
White smoke - that was probably steam. With a cracked overflow tank, the cooling system will be under no pressure resulting in early coolant boiling and steaming out. I am not trying to say that it is not the head gasket but suggesting that the cracked overflow tank (and the cap if not fairly new) should be replaced before digging into the engine. With the new tank and the system refilled, you can then start the engine with the tank cap open and look inside to see if there are any gas bubbles coming out as the engine is idling and especially when you briefly rev it to 2500 - 3000 rpm. If a gasket is blown, you will get quite a lot of gas bubbles coming out and maybe even the coolant rising and overflowing from the tank neck. For this test, don't let the engine heat-up too much as it may boil over with the cooling system open. When the temp needle reaches the mid point, stop the engine.
A better way to diagnose a blown gasket is using a combustion gas "sniffer" but you can start with above described test first and see what results you get.
Signs of a possible blown head gasket:
1. Water/coolant in your oil...check your oil before startup and if you see a white/creamy residue on the stick, that's a strong clue.
2. Blueish color exhaust smoke and a sweet smell
3. Overheating
4. Cylinder misfire, especially under load
5. Rough startup from fouled plugs in either/or both cylinders. Thus you should get a code. Also a plume of smoke should occur.
6. (after reading MS's input) Bubbles in the cooling system.
Straight away, if you have any of those symptoms, do a compression test, that will ultimately tell you.
Last edited by Highhorse; Jun 10, 2020 at 06:41 AM.
1. Water/coolant in your oil...check your oil before startup and if you see a white/creamy residue on the stick, that's a strong clue.
Checked - but this looked clean
5. Rough startup from fouled plugs in either/or both cylinders. Thus you should get a code. Also a plume of smoke should occur.
Checked the fault logs, it had made a minor splutter a couple days ago when starting - not a sound I'd heard before: Fault codes P0303 Powertrain - Cylinder 3 misfired detected, P1316 Powertrain
6. (after reading MS's input) Bubbles in the cooling system
I haven't been able to replace the overflow tank. I did fill the reservoir tank with 4 litres/1 gallon of water (didn't seem much point using coolant when it's going in to be worked on in a week or so) then started the car. There was a mixture of water and coolant and an overflow of foam - here is a video:
Your test (on video) shows typical signs of head gasket leaks. It might also be due to a crack in the cylinder head but this is quite rare.
Once the heads are removed, check whether they have been skimmed before and, of course, for staightness. If not skimmed and if no more than some 0.1 to 0.15 mm out of straight, you can have them skimmed and reused. Unskimmed heads are 131.00 mm high.
After seeing that, I retract my "I don't believe its a head gasket" statement.
The engine sounded smooth and you said you had a Cyl 3 miss indicator, I am thinking it may just be a small head gasket leak, one that definitely needs replaced in any case. I use the word "just" because at the moment it only appears to be effecting 1 cylinder and you didn't report any smoke other than stated by the tech. A compression test would be in line as well to dial in the culprit.
You don't want to run this much if at all, you can score your cylinder wall(s) and/or warp the head by overheating and then be in a real pickle of cost replacement. Right now, before final exam and hoping you caught it early, your cost should be limited to the gasket replacement until the head comes off.
To your thoughts on those miracle fix additives, ...rarely do they work. Head gaskets are under extreme pressure and if you try to fill a baseball size hole with a golf ball, well, you get the idea. Not to mention the other small port holes (that are golf ball size) that stuff could fill which are vital for cooling. You can, and most likely will, cause more damage to your engine and/or cooling system using that stuff.
To your thoughts on those miracle fix additives, ...rarely do they work.
I totally agree, They may seal weeping on the radiator but not any bigger leak. Head gasket leaks pass the flame rings (combustion gasses escaping into the cooling system) - no way, whatever size they are.
I totally agree, They may seal weeping on the radiator but not any bigger leak. Head gasket leaks pass the flame rings (combustion gasses escaping into the cooling system) - no way, whatever size they are.
They absolutely work for cracks in the head or block. Head gaskets are hit or miss though.
...a local mechanic took a quick look and said the overflow tank had cracked and that it was blowing a lot of white smoke...
Just to clarify. There are two tanks: Header Tank (the one you show on your video) and Overflow Tank which is buried low down near the left front corner of the engine compartment. Which tank did the mechanic refer to?
If to the Header Tank, then it needs to be replaced. If to the Overflow Tank, this tank is not pressure sealed but is designed to leak coolant (on the floor) or let any steam out if it is overfilled. Head gasket leaks will push the coolant (or steam) pass the pressure cap on the Header Tank and into the Overflow Tank and overfill it.
Just to clarify. There are two tanks: Header Tank (the one you show on your video) and Overflow Tank which is buried low down near the left front corner of the engine compartment. Which tank did the mechanic refer to?
If to the Header Tank, then it needs to be replaced. If to the Overflow Tank, this tank is not pressure sealed but is designed to leak coolant (on the floor) or let any steam out if it is overfilled. Head gasket leaks will push the coolant (or steam) pass the pressure cap on the Header Tank and into the Overflow Tank and overfill it.
Hey MS, yes, the mechanic seemed to think it was the overflow tank.
I've just read your thread and am very sorry for your difficulties. The good news is that you've already received great guidance from some of our experts!
Two things I would echo: Before you condemn the head gasket, at least do a compression test on cylinder 3 and a couple of other cylinders and compare the readings. If the compression test is inconclusive, I would test for combustion gasses in the coolant using a test kit like the one shown below. I got mine at the local NAPA. If the blue fluid turns yellow, combustion gasses are present in the cooling system:
Shortly after this last post I had a local non-Jaguar mechanic test for combustion gasses in the cooling system and a head gasket issue was confirmed.
After waiting for 3 weeks until a specialist Jag mechanic could fit me in I finally had it confirmed. A damaged gasket at cylinder 3 with imminent failure likely on the left bank.
Faced with writing the old girl off or investing [yet] more money to get this fixed, I've opted to fix her.
This is the list of parts I will/might need (as advised by my mechanic):
Head gasket set / engine gasket set
20 X Cylinder head bolts
8 X Exhaust down pipe studs
Thermo housing to block seal
Thermo housing to rail hose
2 X Water rail seals
2 X Coolant hoses in engine valley
4 X Coolant bleed / pressure hoses
Water connector pipe 3 way
Engine drive belt
Supercharger drive belt
24 X Timing cover bolts
Crank damper bolt & O-ring
2 X Knock sensors
24 X Timing cover bolts
Part load engine breather hose
Full load engine breather hose
2 X Secondary timing chain
2 X Primary timing chain
2 X Primary chain tensioners
LH & RH Secondary chain tensioners
8 X Spark plugs
Oil filter
Air filter
Engine oil castrol
Coolant
Super charger oil
He mentioned some of the above are not necessary, but wise to replace now.
Why do you feel it’s necessary to replace the timing cover bolts??
If I were you, I’d send the heads out to the machine shop to have them magnaflux to check for cracks. If that passes the test, then they’ll have the valves and seats cut, new valve stem oil seals, deck the heads and most definitely have them do the valve adjustment. Once that’s done properly, then it’ll run strong.
Head gasket set / engine gasket set ...makes sense, since this is the issue.
20 X Cylinder head bolts ...yes/no...being a SC engine...yes
8 X Exhaust down pipe studs ...if talking about the manifold to cat studs, yes.
Thermo housing to block seal ...just the seal, not the whole assembly
Thermo housing to rail hose ...since your there, yeah
2 X Water rail seals ...since your there again, yeah
2 X Coolant hoses in engine valley ...if you did these already in the past 1-4 yrs, then why? Inspect and determine
4 X Coolant bleed / pressure hoses ...inspect and determine
Water connector pipe 3 way ...inspect and determine.
Engine drive belt ...unless bad, ...why? The tensioner should probably need replacement first.
Supercharger drive belt ...unless bad,...why?
Crank damper bolt & O-ring ...standard Jag recommendation, I would do the seal...the bolt is a tossup. If reused prior, then yes.
2 X Knock sensors ...why? These can be tested for function. I understand the SC is off and its an optimal time, but should be tested first.
24 X Timing cover bolts ...see Addicted's response.
Part load engine breather hose ...why?
Full load engine breather hose ...why?
2 X Secondary timing chain ...didn't you do these already?
2 X Primary timing chain ...same as previous
2 X Primary chain tensioners ...same as previous
LH & RH Secondary chain tensioners ...if you did tensioners, you did this already.
8 X Spark plugs ...unless you haven't done this recently only. But perhaps that bank, maybe even just that one cylinder once inspected.
Oil filter ...this makes sense
Air filter ...sounds like a nickel and dime attempt
Engine oil castrol ....this makes sense
Coolant ...this makes sense
Super charger oil ...Has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If you haven't done this before, you can do it for a 1/10 the shop cost. There's a thread, if you need it, on how to do it, fairly simple.
He mentioned some of the above are not necessary, but wise to replace now.
I'll let you know when I get her back!
Now I'm sure others will have there opinion (with more experience) and I hope they way in for more direction.
Things looking bad, assuming a head gasket
