At the risk of having missed it somewhere on the forum, I have to ask why the secondary tensioners are swapped out for new with no mention of the primary tensioners being addressed. My girl has 122k on the clock and although I've experienced no issues, other than maybe a bit more chain noise, or that could be because I'm nervous of the consequences of ignoring a potential nightmare, I would think that all tensioners be addressed in the same breath. I love my Jag in much the same way as I love my wife. Carefully, with a fair amount of respect. Any thoughts on this would be warmly received, and any members that may want to sell their set of tools for this job may find a return on their investment. BTW I'm in Hawaii, Aloha

 

Thought exactly the same. Always check and replace if necessary the secondaries?
Just turned the 160K (100K miles) mark. Service shows secondary tensioners were done. Not convinced that is all fixed.
Brought all new chains tensioners,water pump gaskets,guides and serp belt and what ever else in a complete kit. Also brought the "tools" in a complete kit. $1000 AUD ( one of your $ is worth one of ours)
If I'm going there it is only going to happen once. Maybe get something back on the tools.
Jaguar Dealer price is over 3k for this installed and no guarantee all parts are the latest model. I only drive it once a week and the first start I can hear that death rattle for a second or two. My thoughts....Neil

 

The reason for doing the secondaries only is that their failure can result in bent valves or worse, not the case with primaries. Replacing the secondaries is a easy days job using the zip tie method, but doing the primaries is much more involved.

 

Woohoo. Finished swapping out my secondary tensioners today. Used the Plastic tie strap method and it worked great. Four hours end to end. Car runs like a top. My plastic tensioners had breakage beginning at the top of the oval, crack about 1/4 inch long.

Toughest part was getting the dipstick moved aside; resorted to a hack saw to cut a slice to move past the bolt.

Relied heavily on an electric quarter inch driver with a quarter inch socket extension -- saved lots of time.

Material in this forum provided the way and saved my $1200 minimum: Thank you.

Water pump and thermostat done yesterday. Broke the tensioner, bolt sheared off. New tensioner tomorrow. Shock mounts next week.

Water pump was a ^^^ch: one bolt totally destroyed, no bite with any wrench. Fortunately Vice Grips makes special sockets to solve that problem.

 

Good old vice grips. Were the shoes still intact?

 

"Were the shoes still intact?"

Eh?

 

I was referring to the plastic shoes that the chains ride on, at the top and bottom of the tensioners.

 

Im sorry, Im a jag mechanic and I am very curious, you guys are changing your tensioners without the original tools? Not criticizing or any disrespect intended just curious, how do you tighten the camshaft to spec?

And primary tensioner failure doesn't bend the valves? I think it does, they just don't recommend that service because it doesn't go out as often, or at least that's what i thought.

I am very curious because other shops around this area send me jags all apart because they tried to change the timing chain tensioners and realize they couldn't do it without the tools.

 

Daxter, you're on my page, use the correct tools, but forum members have been getting away with a "zip tie" method for some time now changing the secondaries. By tying the secondary chain to the cam and letting the cam caps go, the tensioner can be replaced and timing isn't altered, in practice this has worked well for most, apart from snapping a cam or two on re-install for some members

 

It's likely those who snapped the cam didn't rotate the engine to the point where the valves were closed before removing the caps. This is not rocket science. I had access to the tools, but saw no point in using them. If the cam timing is off, then the tools are required.

 

My timing was spot on, flat notches lined up as described elsewhere; then I rotated the crank until I was at a low spot on each cam (or as close to it as I could get), then worked the caps off by letting off a bit, starting in the middle, to the end, to the other end, to the missed: bringing it back the same way, with no single cap getting snugged until all were nearly snugged; then snug them down, again with separation between tightening all down tight, the torqued them. RJ237: My plastic shoes were fine, no tracks or scoring.

 

Thanks to everyone on this forum who has contributed to the various threads about secondary timing chain tensioner issues. As a result of all the posts, I have just had mine checked and changed today by my independent Jag garage. Both were the original Mark 1 types, one had a crack about 8 - 10mm long, the crack in the other was about 10 -15mm. No symptoms after 107k miles and no other problems, but it's a real piece of mind thing to have had them done at a total cost of 400UKP. Car is a 1998 4.0L Sovereign.

So once again, a great forum with immensely helpful people on it. Thanks to all.

 

Having read all about replacing the secondary timing chain tensioners I did change mine last week using the zip tie method and it worked perfectly well. I followed all the descriptions provided here in the forum and with a flexible 1/4 extension the RB lower left perimeter bolt was no problem. For he bolt holding the oil dip stick I used my Dremel to cut it and it worked fine.

During the test right after the engine inspection lamp went on but after 10km of slow cruising it went off and stayed off.

No cracks visible after 80TKM and the shoes were still good (as far as I can judge it) but I am happy that I did it. Parts were about 220EUROS incl. spark plugs, filters & gaskets from a Jag dealer in the UK.

I had the chance to what I have done on a historique race track in the south of France last weekend and guess what it ran perfectly well leaving some other fast cars behind
I would not have done that with the old ones still in place!

Also from ym side thanks again to the forum since only because of all the info I found here I had the courage to do it on my own.

 

I understand but I'm surprised the tension the springs create on the cam dont move it once you let the tensioners go. I never did it without the tools, to each mechanic his own style and i've been made fun of by other mechanics for being so "by the book", but when they have to chose someone to work on their car they always chose me!

 

Seems like I've missed the zip tie revelation
Any one care to fill me in on the details?

Or maybe a link to the thread with the details.

I agree with sticking to the books to avoid any mishaps but I don't have the jag tools to set the timing and I'd love to avoid buying them.

That has been the only thing stopping me from carrying on with swapping out tensioners.

Thanks,
Alex

 

I think you are missing the point. The chains are held on the same tooth position they always were by the zip tie. The sprockets are not moved relative to the shaft. Therefore, the relative position of the crank sprocket and the cam sprockets remain the same after you lift the can and replace it. the same couldd be done by just marking the chain links relative to the sprockets.

That said, I have measured the new tensioner vs. the Gen I tensioner and there is a small difference in the height dimension. I think I calculated it to be possible to account for a degree or two of misalignement, which is almost certainly of no consequence. I have done chains either way, but I think using the tools is the better approach, especially if there is a chance someone else has already been there.

 

I'll let you guys in on a secret. When I first got my Jag and read the stuff about the secondary tensioners I immediately bought the new ones, the bolts, gaskets, plugs. I read about the zip-tie method and it made sense, so I jumped in and did it. I didn't bother about where the cams were, flats or springs. I took each cam saddle off and laid them out in order with bolts. I tied the chains to the cams, lifted the cams, replaced the tensioners and bolts, buttoned it up as if the tensioner fairy had paid me a visit, and away I went. I guess I was ignorant about snapping the cams. But I knew the timing would not change unless the cam sprocket moved in relation to the cam. I loosened and tightened the cam saddle bolts evenly and carefully amd torqued them in order. This was a couple of years ago. When I got my series III I did the tappet stake down operation myself with no probs, so I figured I'd do this one too. I'm not recommending this to anyone, but I'm just saying it can be done successfully without too much hassle. If I had to do it again, I would recommend at least positioning the cam(s) where there is the least valve spring pressure on the cam when removing/replacing the cam saddles. So maybe I dodged a bullet, but my car runs beautifully.

 

First let me thank whiteXKR for his gracious time spent in answering my questions and invaluable encouragement.

I had to open up the valve covers to replace the seals { used VR set}
and dreaded seeing the orange tensioners.
Sure enough there they were! Now what , . I had been making notes for past month of Forum questions so thought I can do this.
Ordered the tensioners and bolts from Ford {Arlington , Tx] and had them overnight.
Started on right bank. Followed all instructions in removing cam covers , tied down chain with zip lock and wondered about the cam shaft position. Pulled the cam up from front { left loose cap on rear} using channel locks . Came free relatively easily.
Put in new tensioner. Removed zip tie . chain felt loose.
On the left bank repeated procedure but turned engine over to position cam shaft for easy removal. Wow the LH cam shaft came loose easily and in went the new tensioner, remove pin of course , cut zip tie.
Some observations on tensioners { XJR 2001 84106 miles} the RH one showed a very minute crack . the LH one no cracks but chaingauge marks other than normal wear on top.
Have to say this was an easy procedure using the zip tie method , also n rotating the engine the RH bank chain tightened up.
Scariest part of procedure was pulling up the RH cam shaft
Longest part of procedure removing all the wires, hoses clamps etc.
Oh yes cut that bolt on dip stick tube , and watch for the overflow tube to top of radiator.
thanks whiteXKR for the encouragement , I hope this post will encourge other newbies to make this swap themselves.

 

The keys are

Go slow, " patience best tool in your tool box"

Check cam timing

Move crank so all cams are low spot to minimize spring tension
(Just like we used to do to adjust valves

Unbolt cam retainers as you would head bolts, start in the middle, to the end, to the other end, to the missed until all are equally finger free, remove, keep clean,

Lift cam just enough to remove tensioners, do not rotate

Button back up just as you would torque d own a head, middle. Up, far left down, far right up, missed left down . . . Untilall are finger tight, then snug down, and torque, in the same order

Turn crank and check flats are still aligned.

I found the idea of pulling the fuel pump relay to allow the engine to build lubrication pressure was a good idea