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Valve setting on the V8

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Old 03-09-2018, 10:11 AM
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Default Valve setting on the V8

Hey guys,

This year my valves are due. Due to running LPG I need to check my valves now, so that is on my '2018 to do'.

So, a few questions regading this job:
1. Special tools needed?
2. What are the clearances?
3. 32 valves will take a while, anything to do while recommended?

Cheers!

Damien
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:28 AM
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Special tools needed - Valve spring compression tool like a big G clamp. A good magnet to pull the shims, and keep the collets on the valve until the spring is released. A set of metric feeler gauges (not important).

You have to pull and reset the cams, unless you can get hold of the Jaguar tool that pushes the bucket down so the shims can be slipped out while the cam is in place - I would kill for one....

You'll find the clearances on page 23 of the PDF I've attached.

New MLS head gaskets and head bolts.

This should get the job done, and yes it's time consuming.
 
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2018, 11:46 AM
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I got the valve shim tool from Bosch Automotive Service Solutions, they seem to be the only source at present. I emailed inquiry to [email protected] and got a reply from [email protected] directing me to Australia ([email protected]) as I am in their region. USD 183.00 plus shipping.
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean B View Post
Special tools needed - Valve spring compression tool like a big G clamp. A good magnet to pull the shims, and keep the collets on the valve until the spring is released. A set of metric feeler gauges (not important).

You have to pull and reset the cams, unless you can get hold of the Jaguar tool that pushes the bucket down so the shims can be slipped out while the cam is in place - I would kill for one....

You'll find the clearances on page 23 of the PDF I've attached.

New MLS head gaskets and head bolts.

This should get the job done, and yes it's time consuming.
What, it is a head off job!? You're kidding, right?

I mean, you must be...
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:34 PM
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No, but when I do a valve job I strip the heads, clean the valves and ports and install new valve stem oil seals = proper job.

@ M. Stojanovic, the only place I found one was SPX the tool supplier for Jaguar worldwide and they quote an amazing £750 plus VAT, so £1,000 tool! Did you also use the fan nozzle?
https://jlrequipment.service-solutio...px?SKU=303-590

Have you got a part number? they're usually 303-???

I'm looking at the following....which one did you get and what work have you done to your heads?
https://jaguar.service-solutions.com...tment_Tool?c=1
https://jaguar.service-solutions.com...appet_Tool?c=1

Exhaust valves only?
https://jlrequipment.service-solutio...px?SKU=303-941
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean B View Post
No, but when I do a valve job I strip the heads, clean the valves and ports and install new valve stem oil seals = proper job.

@ M. Stojanovic, the only place I found one was SPX the tool supplier for Jaguar worldwide and they quote an amazing £750 plus VAT, so £1,000 tool! Did you also use the fan nozzle?
https://jlrequipment.service-solutio...px?SKU=303-590

Have you got a part number? they're usually 303-???

I'm looking at the following....which one did you get and what work have you done to your heads?
https://jaguar.service-solutions.com...tment_Tool?c=1
https://jaguar.service-solutions.com...appet_Tool?c=1

Exhaust valves only?
https://jlrequipment.service-solutio...px?SKU=303-941
Okay, that makes sense. If they're off, sure. Bestätige to do the seals and co.

And it MUST be that special tool? I mean, other tools to compressor the buckets are not available?
 

Last edited by Daim; 03-09-2018 at 01:11 PM.
  #7  
Old 03-09-2018, 12:49 PM
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Sean, try this tool...

https://jlrequipment.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/ItemDetail.aspx?SKU=303-540

Proper tool for the valve settings for the V8. If you use the link you can search deeper into the details.
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:11 PM
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Found out, I can rent the tool for €28/week...

Means tool 303-540 is readily available...
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:11 PM
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That could be a Bingo! I've just confirmed the part number from the shop manual - I'll buy that one I think. My confusion over which of these bloody tools was an article in the JEC mag and they used a V6 tool I think as the buckets are the same diameter...

With that tool you should be able to adjust the shims if needed Daim WITHOUT removing the cams - a serious time saver and not head off rebuild if your valves are within spec, or not blowing oil.
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:46 PM
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If the head is OFF, then you can simply remove the camshafts a few times and don't fool around with the stupid tool.

The tool is used for replacing shims with head in-situ.

bob
 
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean B View Post
That could be a Bingo! I've just confirmed the part number from the shop manual - I'll buy that one I think. My confusion over which of these bloody tools was an article in the JEC mag and they used a V6 tool I think as the buckets are the same diameter...

With that tool you should be able to adjust the shims if needed Daim WITHOUT removing the cams - a serious time saver and not head off rebuild if your valves are within spec, or not blowing oil.
Currently not blowing or burning oil, so that is the most perfect tool for me. I'll rent it for a week or two. Measure up the clearances, see of I can reuse any of the 32 valves and then buy new ones. New intake gaskets and valve cover gaskets are of course intelligent to do at the same time...

So, cheers all for the links and co! I am rather relieved, that the heads can stay on... Phew!
 
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean B View Post
Have you got a part number? they're usually 303-???
I bought 303-540. I started with https://jlrequipment.service-solutio...px?SKU=303-540 but could not complete the purchase as they do not ship to Malaysia. Then I contacted them by email and could buy it from Bosch Australia through direct contact.
 
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:10 PM
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Post AJ27 Valve Lash Bench Setting w/o special tools

Do any of the Gurus and Techs any special tips / tricks for checking and adjusting the valve lash on the bench without the special Jaguar set up tools?

I typically measure with the lobe 180 degrees off the valve tappet, and would like to know if Jaguar has a special spot on the cam lobe other than 180 degrees to check lash if I do not have access to all the Jaguar / Ford tools.

I know it is time consuming without the special tools time saving tools, but I have the time and experience with these type of tappets, just no special tools available local here in Colorado. I might have the local Euro Shop quote setting them up as I think they havde the necessary tools, but then I miss out on the fun of setting up 32 valves and swapping shims!

2001 Jaguar XJ8 x308 AJ27 w 106k miles.

Oddly enough, these valves and heads look pretty exceptional for 106k miles, no pitting, marginal carbon build up mainly on the piston surface and exhaust valves, jewelers loop shows clean contact surfaces on each valve and seat, no seat separation or cracks, so I'll do just a quick lapping in of the valves and replace the seals.

Heads are dead level, original 131.00 mm thickness - my caliper actually shows 131.06 mm so these are definitely Original, can't even get the thinnest shim under the straight edge as absolutely no light shows under the straight edge at any orientation, so no skimming needed, just removed the old gasket sealing material, degreased and checked.

No bent valves, no piston contact, no blown gaskets, so reassembly with new seals will be especially careful and thought out.

Catalytic converters internals are clean, no deposits, no blockages in any of the CAT block holes, no cracks, spotless under bright inspection light, so I am not even going to think about CAT replacement .

Thanks for any tips or tricks on setting up the valve lash without special tools on the bench !

Cheers!
 
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by StagByTriumph View Post
I typically measure with the lobe 180 degrees off the valve tappet, and would like to know if Jaguar has a special spot on the cam lobe other than 180 degrees to check lash if I do not have access to all the Jaguar / Ford tools.
The special Jaguar valve shim tool is only to enable replacement of the valve shims with the heads in-situ, basically a valve tappet compressor allowing you to fish out the shim and insert a new one. On the bench, just do them in the normal manner.

It is interesting that the X308 valve shims initially came in 0.02 mm increments (up to VIN 853935) and were later changed to shims in 0.015 increments. This small increments suggest that there is a small margin between the gap being too small and being a bit larger resulting in noisy (tapping) tappets. I took great care setting the valve gaps on the bench but, after assembly, I still have some light tapping from one or to tappets after a cold start (completely disappears when the engine warms up). I intend to first do a couple more thousand miles then, if I still have the mentioned tapping, I will check the clearances again in-situ and use my valve shim tool (for the first time) to replace the offending ones.

You may find the shims rather hard to detach from the tappets (oil film adhesion). I used a strong magnet on the shim and heated up the tappet with a hot air gun and the shims came off fairly easily (and without the mess that trying to blow compressed air into the tiny gap would make).
 
  #15  
Old 01-04-2019, 02:42 PM
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Post Valve Lash tolerance / and Tappet Shims - sources?

All,
After being gone for the holidays, I am back focusing on completing the setup of my AJ27 heads.

First I had to perfect the method to lap in the valves as hand lapping was not "cutting" it taking far too long with my old Versa course/fine compounds to remove pits that really did not require a full regrind.

So I came up with one of my old methods of placing a combination of light weight springs under the valve, lubricate the stem, and power lap with my variable speed electric drill.

I used brand new Permatex valve grinding compounding that performed far better than my old compound.
I found that the intake valves took about 200-400 one second duration strokes ( varied first 100 strokes in one direction, then 100 strokes in the reverse direction) using my power drill method at a slow to medium speed, and the exhaust valves took 400-1000 strokes. If after the magnifying loop inspection I found any remnants of pits, another 50/50 strokes got them removed cleanly.

I used Prussian Blue from Permatex to check for a clean and uniform contact surface, then a jewelers magnifying loop to verify pits were removed on both the valve and seat and that there was no ovality in the seat, I would move on to the next valve.
BTW, there is a YouTube video that shows the incorrect use of Prussian Blue - "not" rotating the valve on the seat is incorrect use of Prussian Blue - you MUST rotate the valve against the seat to show the contact valve to seat area using Prussian Blue which is standard machining practice and also in the instructions for using Prussian Blue. Total actual lapping time was about 3-4 hours.

To reassemble the valves, new seals, springs/ collets, I had to come up with a custom spacer made of 1" schedule 20 PVC about 3" long, find a slightly larger plastic cup like used on the bottom of a folding chair with a hole drilled in the plastic cup for the valve stem to pass through, a spring compression tool with another plastic cup on the valve head end, long nose tweezers, and a LOT OF Patience so as not to loose the tiny collet. That plastic cup with the PVC pipe inside of it with a hole just large enough for the valve stem and collets and assisted in placement of the collets onto the valve stem. Each then was checked with a few smacks with a wooden drift and a plastic dead-blow mallet. Total assembly time about 1 hour.

Next was to add the cam followers and shims in the same locations they were removed, first the cam followers were lubricated on the bottom of the skirt with assembly lube, then 90-120 EP followed by a dot of 90-120 EP on the bottom of each pre-measured and recorded tappet shim. ( note that none of the OE Factory tappet shims had any markings for size on either the top or bottom surface. Cams were added. flats in a position so the valves were not open to heads raised on wood blocks to allow valve opening. individual cams were rotated 4-6 times, then measurement began cold. Total measurement and recording time about 1 hour.

One problem is the availability of feeler gauges in combinations to measure within the tolerance of the valve lash. Spec says the setting for the
  • Intake is 0.20 mm +/- 0.02 mm ( 0.008 inch the spec, proper conversion is 0.078 inch , +/- 0.000787 inch)
  • Exhaust is 0.25 mm +/- 0.02 mm ( 0.010 inch the spec, proper conversion is 0.00984 inch , +/- 0.000787 inch)


From Engine Repair Course Manual 1999

My Metric feeler gauges go to 0.05 mm, 0.02mm is pretty damn thin for a feeler gauge, metric feelers incriment by 0.05mm, and my thinnest SAE automotive feeler is 0.003 inch.
So to measure accurately to get the correct shim to get my gap within tolerance is an issue.
My best micrometer and dial gauge and dial caliper will go to 0.0005 inch - interpolated between the pointer and gauge increments for shim measurement thickness, but for feeler gauges, not too many places make feeler gauges that will measure less than 0.001 increments inch which is 0.0254 mm . Basically you need to be able to reliably measure tighter than 0.0005 inch or or 0.0127 mm in order to properly set up the valve lash to proper spec and calculate the correct shim, and those feeler gauge thicknesses are not commonly available unless you get very specialized Starrett or Mitutoyo machinist feeler gauges. So to properly gap your valves you need a 0.20 mm feeler with a 0.02 mm feeler to make sure you are within tolerance on the high side and an 0.18 mm feeler with a 0.02 mm feeler on the low side or you can use a 0.0005 which will keep you within a tighter gap, but where do you find those size feelers?

Next I took the recorded measurements and plugged them into an online tool I found suitable for recording and tracking and identifying the shims needed for a 32 valve V8 ( Shim calculator). This allows you to set tolerances and as found measurements, then calculates shims for each position providing a list of how many shims you need to purchase by size and where the shim needs to go, just remember to save the results to a file or print it for future reference. It is not real fancy but it gets the job done quickly if you draw a diagram of each position.

So I need 19 shims replaced out of 32 total ranging from 2.30 mm to 2.60 mm, but I need to go back first and more carefully remeasure each of my shims to a tighter tolerance and recheck my clearances to a tighter tolerance - re-enter the numbers in the shim calculation tool to do a final check of need. Hence the value of the Jaguar Special JD232 tools to move things to a preset position ( fully down for the intake and fully up the exhaust - shim to proper clearance) if you are doing this on a production repair level.
Feeler gauges to correct spec tolerance I can find.

However sourcing the correct shims is an issue. I have seen issues with people using shims that are "similar" and these will typically cause annoying tapping problems, chamfer edges vs sharp corner, incorrect diameters to fit properly in the cam follower, of course the other issue is quality of the materials in the tappet shim.

Who has a reliable and low cost source of OEM quality tappet shims at a low price and what other engines use the same shims? I have seen prices from $5 per shim to $20 per shim.

Has anyone checked the sizes and used Lincoln LS shims or any other compatible engine?

Anyone have a shim selection we can do some exchange?

I also need one cam M6x35 proper grade cam cap cap bolt, one of mine seems to have been captured by the garage gremlins - or the bolt has rolled to the most inaccessible hidden location on my workbench.

Thanks!
 
  #16  
Old 01-05-2019, 08:14 AM
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I have about 20 to 30 shims of varying sizes. The thing is I think I they are in North Carolina. I can have my son look for them later today.
I think you are over thinking the valve clearances.
Edit: I should point out that E1 means exhaust valve 1 not example.
When I did my reassembly I wrote down the size of each shim and what valve it was on.
For example
E1- 2.50mm
E2- 2.45mm

Then after assembly and rotating the cams as you did I measured the clearances.
For example
E1- .29mm
E2- .30mm

Then subtract .25mm from these measurements to calculate the shim needed.

E1 .29mm- .25mm= . O4mm+2.50mm(installed) =2.54mm needed. Since there is + or - .02 allowance I need a shim between
2.52mm to 2.56mm

E2- 30mm- .25mm= .05mm+ 2.45= 2.50mm
Since I'm replacing E1 shim I will move it to E2.

I hope you can understand my explanation. Others might do it differently.
 

Last edited by BobRoy; 01-05-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:57 PM
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I think the tool you are seeking is JD 232 and the air nozzle is JAG-016-OL. As you can see from the picture the Foundation has spares and if there is real interest we will put these and other tools in the E bay store for the Foundations Mission.


For MOTORCARMAN. Please see the pics of the AJ16 timing tools. We understand the 33 and the 33A are interchange but we have scoured our catalogs and on line for the SPX tool. We hold Churchill,Zelenda,OTC,SPX, and others so are aware of SPX but this tool is escaping us with its cam offset and slanted ramp---any ideas? Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:05 PM
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I have never seen the 'off-set' cam timing tool!!!!
Maybe it's to change cam timing??? (overlap) for some application.

I have one of the 'normal' AJ6/16 cam plates and one from my 1966 'E' Type.

bob
 
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:26 PM
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MCM thanks--wow--no one else so far knows what it is! Asking the Aston Martin crowd as they sort of use the same engine.
 
  #20  
Old 01-08-2019, 03:24 PM
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Thumbs up Valve Shim Adjusting tool JD 232 - Loaner?

Originally Posted by Coventry Foundation View Post


I think the tool you are seeking is JD 232 and the air nozzle is JAG-016-OL. As you can see from the picture the Foundation has spares and if there is real interest we will put these and other tools in the E bay store for the Foundations Mission.

...
.
Coventry Foundation - Oh my, is the Coventry Foundation the same as the late Michael Cook preserved the British Leyland Motors North American files from Leonia NJ???

I had no idea your organization provided that type of support or had such tools.

Absolutely, yes, I would be extremely interested in rent/lease/loan of the JD 232 tools.

I would also like to know what you have for the line of Churchill tools

This is similar to what I do with the Triumph Stag Cylinder head removal tool in my care (it is not a factory tool) but I loan it at no cost to Stag Owners, only shipping round trip is paid for by the user.

What is the link to get the tools ( if needed) or procedures/costs?
 

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