power drain
#1
04-02-2014, 02:09 AM
power drain
Well friends.... I guess I spoke too soon in the other post.
After replacing the battery with a brand new one everything seemed great, however now after a couple of weeks it seems there is a drain somewhere.
The battery was flat again today after sitting idle for two days.
This is the second time I have come out to a flat battery since replacing it, and both times have been after the car has sat idle for a couple of days.
I have no idea where the drain is at this time and haven't even had the chance to look yet.
I guess for starters I will be checking all the grounds again to assure myself they are making good clean contacts.... but I seriously doubt that has anything to do with it.
I have been having a lot of trouble lately with the passenger door handle locking itself and not opening even from inside the car.
I have had to remove the door trim twice now with the door locked shut and adjust the tension on the opening rod just so I could get the lock to come up to the unlock position.
During these times, even when pulling the locking knob up manually and holding it up.... it will not release the lock and allow the door to open.
So I am guessing this may be a possible cause.... it is almost like the door is locked but the module hasn't quite got the message...
Kind of like when you try to unlock a door while the person outside has the handle up, if you understand that.
It has been mentioned to me about adjusting the microswitch in the door....
From memory, I believe I only have the one switch on the handle and that is for the keylock/central locking...... I do not recall seeing the switch or another set of wires for the rocker lever to open the door....
If I am right, I can only assume this is why I am having so much difficulty.
I can only suspect that the second microswitch is to actuate the opening of the door (electronically)...... if that is correct then this is why my door is messed up.
I am having to adjust the rod to the rocker lever to get the door to open from the outside and the variation between opening and not opening is like 1/16th of a turn on the length adjusting screw.... very sensitive.
When I have the time to mess with it some more, I will rip both the door handles out again and check if the second microswitch is present.
So basically what I suspect is happening, the central locking is trying to lock the door but not travelling the full length of travel because the rod leading to the handle is maybe adjusted too much, but if I slacken the rod any, the door will not open from the outside.
So my guess is this may be a battle going on silently while the car is locked and parked...... the module constantly sending a message to lock the door..... however having said that... there is no visual or audible sign that this is happening..... it is just an assumption of possible cause.
I suppose I could test the theory by leaving the car sit for a few days with it left unlocked and see if it still drains the battery.
Anyway..... will keep you all informed of any findings.
After replacing the battery with a brand new one everything seemed great, however now after a couple of weeks it seems there is a drain somewhere.
The battery was flat again today after sitting idle for two days.
This is the second time I have come out to a flat battery since replacing it, and both times have been after the car has sat idle for a couple of days.
I have no idea where the drain is at this time and haven't even had the chance to look yet.
I guess for starters I will be checking all the grounds again to assure myself they are making good clean contacts.... but I seriously doubt that has anything to do with it.
I have been having a lot of trouble lately with the passenger door handle locking itself and not opening even from inside the car.
I have had to remove the door trim twice now with the door locked shut and adjust the tension on the opening rod just so I could get the lock to come up to the unlock position.
During these times, even when pulling the locking knob up manually and holding it up.... it will not release the lock and allow the door to open.
So I am guessing this may be a possible cause.... it is almost like the door is locked but the module hasn't quite got the message...
Kind of like when you try to unlock a door while the person outside has the handle up, if you understand that.
It has been mentioned to me about adjusting the microswitch in the door....
From memory, I believe I only have the one switch on the handle and that is for the keylock/central locking...... I do not recall seeing the switch or another set of wires for the rocker lever to open the door....
If I am right, I can only assume this is why I am having so much difficulty.
I can only suspect that the second microswitch is to actuate the opening of the door (electronically)...... if that is correct then this is why my door is messed up.
I am having to adjust the rod to the rocker lever to get the door to open from the outside and the variation between opening and not opening is like 1/16th of a turn on the length adjusting screw.... very sensitive.
When I have the time to mess with it some more, I will rip both the door handles out again and check if the second microswitch is present.
So basically what I suspect is happening, the central locking is trying to lock the door but not travelling the full length of travel because the rod leading to the handle is maybe adjusted too much, but if I slacken the rod any, the door will not open from the outside.
So my guess is this may be a battle going on silently while the car is locked and parked...... the module constantly sending a message to lock the door..... however having said that... there is no visual or audible sign that this is happening..... it is just an assumption of possible cause.
I suppose I could test the theory by leaving the car sit for a few days with it left unlocked and see if it still drains the battery.
Anyway..... will keep you all informed of any findings.
#2
04-02-2014, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
Robert,
First, let's separate the two issues.
One is mechanical, the door handle linkage components. If there is as much difficulty as you suggest with adjustment, I dare say you are close to needing a new door handle or new linking rod components. IIRC, perhaps your repair didn't take, but I'm not sure if that's the one you fixed or not. Remember these are "classics", or at least our MY qualifies in most countries and states.
Some folks have placed a bend in the longer rod to reduce it's overall length. I don't know how much thread you have to work with on the rods and turnbuckles.
Second issue is electrical, and you suspect the the micro-switch. I don't think it's the problem based on your description. The micro-switch goes to the central processor/locking module, then a signal is sent back to the actuators/locking switch. I think the problem may be the actuator on the passenger door.
Do this first before you tear things apart. Remove the negative battery cable and place your multimeter to read milli amps and place the leads between the neg cable and the negative post of the battery. Use wire ties or small clamps to ensure they stay connected to the post and cable. Place the meter so you can read it from inside the vehicle.
Have the windows rolled down for circulation. Start with the passenger side fuse box and remove one fuse at a time and observe the reading on the meter to see if there is a significant drop. (There are a few fuses that do have constant draw at all times, like for the central process, most should not)
A few things to keep in mind with this process. Don't be in a rush, observe the meter when you close the door (doors have to be closed when pulling the fuses) and note how long it takes to go to sleep, you'll see a reduction in draw when sleep state occurs, then you can start to pull the fuses one at a time. Wait a second or two before reinserting and pulling the next fuse, all the while be observing the behavior of the meter. If you see a significant amp draw drop on a circuit that should be dormant during sleep state, then you have narrowed your search, or confirmed your suspicion.
An alternative would be to meter the amp draw after the car goes to sleep, note of the reading and start disconnecting the various components in the passenger door one at a time while noting whether there is a drop in the amp draw.
BTW, you should be seeing an approximate draw of 30 mil-amps when the central processor has settled and is at rest/sleep.
First, let's separate the two issues.
One is mechanical, the door handle linkage components. If there is as much difficulty as you suggest with adjustment, I dare say you are close to needing a new door handle or new linking rod components. IIRC, perhaps your repair didn't take, but I'm not sure if that's the one you fixed or not. Remember these are "classics", or at least our MY qualifies in most countries and states.
Some folks have placed a bend in the longer rod to reduce it's overall length. I don't know how much thread you have to work with on the rods and turnbuckles. Second issue is electrical, and you suspect the the micro-switch. I don't think it's the problem based on your description. The micro-switch goes to the central processor/locking module, then a signal is sent back to the actuators/locking switch. I think the problem may be the actuator on the passenger door.
Do this first before you tear things apart. Remove the negative battery cable and place your multimeter to read milli amps and place the leads between the neg cable and the negative post of the battery. Use wire ties or small clamps to ensure they stay connected to the post and cable. Place the meter so you can read it from inside the vehicle.
Have the windows rolled down for circulation. Start with the passenger side fuse box and remove one fuse at a time and observe the reading on the meter to see if there is a significant drop. (There are a few fuses that do have constant draw at all times, like for the central process, most should not)
A few things to keep in mind with this process. Don't be in a rush, observe the meter when you close the door (doors have to be closed when pulling the fuses) and note how long it takes to go to sleep, you'll see a reduction in draw when sleep state occurs, then you can start to pull the fuses one at a time. Wait a second or two before reinserting and pulling the next fuse, all the while be observing the behavior of the meter. If you see a significant amp draw drop on a circuit that should be dormant during sleep state, then you have narrowed your search, or confirmed your suspicion.
An alternative would be to meter the amp draw after the car goes to sleep, note of the reading and start disconnecting the various components in the passenger door one at a time while noting whether there is a drop in the amp draw.
BTW, you should be seeing an approximate draw of 30 mil-amps when the central processor has settled and is at rest/sleep.
Last edited by Rob Evenson; 04-02-2014 at 11:30 AM.
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red_101au (04-02-2014)
#3
04-02-2014, 08:27 PM
Rob..... Firstly let me give you a big thanks..
I honestly was at a loss as to how I would even go about tracking down power drainage..
Although I do have a very basic understanding of circuitry and how to track down breaks in it and even bypass if needed... I had no idea how to proceed to find a drain.
Now that you have told me..... it makes perfect sense lol.
ok I will not have time to do much on her for the next couple of days....
but I will get onto this ASAP and keep you informed.
Again thank you for clarifying how one traces a drain.
I honestly was at a loss as to how I would even go about tracking down power drainage..
Although I do have a very basic understanding of circuitry and how to track down breaks in it and even bypass if needed... I had no idea how to proceed to find a drain.
Now that you have told me..... it makes perfect sense lol.
ok I will not have time to do much on her for the next couple of days....
but I will get onto this ASAP and keep you informed.
Again thank you for clarifying how one traces a drain.
#4
04-02-2014, 09:13 PM
Red,
What you're experiencing with the door handles and central locking is frustrating. I know from experience as my '88 has similar issues re locking unlocking passenger and drivers doors. I've replaced my locking module (under the glovebox) without success, I've cleaned and adjusted my locks without success. I suspect the fault lays in a broken wire, very common as the harness passes through the door so has been subject to open and closing and constantly bending back and forth. I really can't be bothered trying to chase all the wires to confirm my suspicion, I've just learn't to live with it.
Re the door locks getting jammed, this is a result of the plastic/nylon lugs deteriorating with age. Unfortunately you'll be hard presses trying to find new replacements anywhere. Only real solution is 1) access to a 3d printer (we all now know how easy this is!!!) or two trying to locate some new ones to fit from a different vehicle altogether (I can't help with this either)
Re battery drain. Have you checked at night to make sure none of the interior lights are on? Also worth checking the boot light although this is near on impossible without actually locking yourself in the boot with the lid down (no split fold rear seats to help) I found that the two rear cabin reading lights are normally the culprit here as they need to be seated correctly in their housings to turn off completely. These lights are the ones fitted to the rear pillar next to the headrests.
What you're experiencing with the door handles and central locking is frustrating. I know from experience as my '88 has similar issues re locking unlocking passenger and drivers doors. I've replaced my locking module (under the glovebox) without success, I've cleaned and adjusted my locks without success. I suspect the fault lays in a broken wire, very common as the harness passes through the door so has been subject to open and closing and constantly bending back and forth. I really can't be bothered trying to chase all the wires to confirm my suspicion, I've just learn't to live with it.
Re the door locks getting jammed, this is a result of the plastic/nylon lugs deteriorating with age. Unfortunately you'll be hard presses trying to find new replacements anywhere. Only real solution is 1) access to a 3d printer (we all now know how easy this is!!!) or two trying to locate some new ones to fit from a different vehicle altogether (I can't help with this either)
Re battery drain. Have you checked at night to make sure none of the interior lights are on? Also worth checking the boot light although this is near on impossible without actually locking yourself in the boot with the lid down (no split fold rear seats to help) I found that the two rear cabin reading lights are normally the culprit here as they need to be seated correctly in their housings to turn off completely. These lights are the ones fitted to the rear pillar next to the headrests.
#5
04-02-2014, 10:09 PM
3D Hubs: Local 3D printing services and 3D Printers
Also found one for 900 bucks..
#6
04-19-2014, 06:09 AM
Robert,
Do this first before you tear things apart. Remove the negative battery cable and place your multimeter to read milli amps and place the leads between the neg cable and the negative post of the battery. Use wire ties or small clamps to ensure they stay connected to the post and cable. Place the meter so you can read it from inside the vehicle.
Do this first before you tear things apart. Remove the negative battery cable and place your multimeter to read milli amps and place the leads between the neg cable and the negative post of the battery. Use wire ties or small clamps to ensure they stay connected to the post and cable. Place the meter so you can read it from inside the vehicle.
Finally got a chance today get out the multimeter and try and track down the drain.... Unfortunately it reveals nothing
Long list but I have listed the readings below:
Sleep state draw .064 miliamps
Circuit 1 (passenger side)
fuse 1 removed .064 L/F door
fuse 2 removed .062 Instrument
fuse 3 removed .064 L/H A/C fan
fuse 4 removed .064 L/H headlight main beam
fuse 5 removed .064 L/H front lamps
fuse 6 removed .064 ride level / power brakes
fuse 7 removed .064 L/H rear lamps
fuse 8 removed .043 seat R/H
fuse 9 removed .064 see handbook
fuse 10 removed .064 seat L/H
fuse 11 removed .064 wiper motor / horn
fuse 12 removed .064 L/H rear lamps
fuse 13 removed .064 L/H rear door
fuse 14 removed .064 L/H dip headlamp
fuse 15 removed .064 ????
circuit 2 (driver side)
fuse 1 removed .064 R/H front door
fuse 2 removed .062 door / boot lock
fuse 3 removed .064 R/H A/C fan
fuse 4 removed .064 R/H headlamp main beam
fuse 5 removed .064 R/H front side lamps
fuse 6 removed .064 heated rear window / aerial
fuse 7 removed .064 R/H rear lamps (stop)
fuse 8 removed .064 cigar lighter
fuse 9 removed .064 see handbook
fuse 10 removed .049 aux circuits
fuse 11 removed .064 cooling fan / bonnet lamps
fuse 12 removed .064 R/H rear lamps, tail/ number plate
fuse 13 removed .064 rear right door
fuse 14 removed .064 R/H dip headlamp
fuse 15 removed .064 caravan / trailer
fuse 16 removed .064 screen wash
fuse 17 removed .064 power wash
Circuit 3 (console)
fuse 1 removed .064
fuse 2 removed .064
fuse 3 removed .064
fuse 4 removed .064
fuse 5 removed .064
fuse 6 removed .064
as you can see basically no change at all...
seems stable at .064 right across the board.
However I am guessing this would change when the door lock is jammed on which it is not at this time.
next time the door will not unlock, I will check the readings again
Last edited by red_101au; 04-19-2014 at 06:24 AM.
#7
04-19-2014, 09:25 AM
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Red,
If I read the numbers correctly, you did have changes when you pulled the Circuit 1 Fuse 8 and the Circuit 2 Fuse 10. I can understand that the Aux circuits might draw some current (clock, etc.), but I don't know if 15 mA is too much. A bigger question is: why is your R/H seat drawing 21 mA? Is there anything else on that circuit besides the seat?
Your overall draw of 64 mA is on the high side (less than 30 mA is ideal but may be difficult to achieve on an XJ40).
Does your car have a security system that may be drawing part of the quiescent current?
I can't remember the procedure, but I recall disconnecting the battery power cable from the alternator and testing for diode backdraw. I'll try to look that up later - have to run right now.
Cheers,
Don
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#8
04-19-2014, 10:06 AM
Senior Member
Red,
I got buckets of stuff going on today, so not much time to contemplate. As Don noted, the average appears high.....I'm usually in the 40's at the most when the car is at rest.
What was the reading before you pulled any fuses? (cpu asleep, at rest, all fuses plugged in, doors all closed, windows up)
Then what is it when you open either front door, should see a spike?
The aux circuit has about 7 or 8 components on it, I'll have to look later, can't remember them all now.
I got buckets of stuff going on today, so not much time to contemplate. As Don noted, the average appears high.....I'm usually in the 40's at the most when the car is at rest.
What was the reading before you pulled any fuses? (cpu asleep, at rest, all fuses plugged in, doors all closed, windows up)
Then what is it when you open either front door, should see a spike?
The aux circuit has about 7 or 8 components on it, I'll have to look later, can't remember them all now.
#9
04-19-2014, 10:07 AM
Hey Don..
Yes I have a constant .064 sleep load, this does appear to be a little on the high side.
As far as I can tell there is no security system added at all, or anything non standard that I know of.
As for the seat having a rather substantial drain.... I have already thought long and hard about it...
At this time I have the recline cable disconnected as the ratchet in the seat seems to slip a bit and it will recline but not raise again.
I have tested the motor and it does infact work in both directions, so I am assuming it maybe in the switch itself is only working on one side or possibly a relay fault.
Tomorrow I want to disconnect it totally and see if this makes a difference.
As for the aux..... I think after looking at the schematics that this can be traced to the interior lighting.
I have a hunch I want to follow up on tomorrow as well.... I want to pull the relay and test it.
I a hoping it is faulty and maybe not switching correctly and also hoping that may be the cause of the delay timer not working now.
I have a few things I want to test but I will start with these as they are giving a positive drain reading.
I am still open to suggestions
Yes I have a constant .064 sleep load, this does appear to be a little on the high side.
As far as I can tell there is no security system added at all, or anything non standard that I know of.
As for the seat having a rather substantial drain.... I have already thought long and hard about it...
At this time I have the recline cable disconnected as the ratchet in the seat seems to slip a bit and it will recline but not raise again.
I have tested the motor and it does infact work in both directions, so I am assuming it maybe in the switch itself is only working on one side or possibly a relay fault.
Tomorrow I want to disconnect it totally and see if this makes a difference.
As for the aux..... I think after looking at the schematics that this can be traced to the interior lighting.
I have a hunch I want to follow up on tomorrow as well.... I want to pull the relay and test it.
I a hoping it is faulty and maybe not switching correctly and also hoping that may be the cause of the delay timer not working now.
I have a few things I want to test but I will start with these as they are giving a positive drain reading.
I am still open to suggestions
Last edited by red_101au; 04-19-2014 at 10:26 AM.
#10
04-19-2014, 10:12 AM
Rob...
the reading at rest was also 0.064
when opening the door it jumped to 2.904.... quite substantial, but that is with the lights coming on.
I too noticed the aux does seem to have several item associated with it...
A little difficult to trace them all from the schematics as they are not all interlinked in the design... you need to hunt each one down individually.
but I do believe this has something to do with the interior lighting relay.
It seems to be the only relay between the fuse panel and the Processor, I am hoping it may be out of sorts... Just need to find where it is hiding now lol
the reading at rest was also 0.064
when opening the door it jumped to 2.904.... quite substantial, but that is with the lights coming on.
I too noticed the aux does seem to have several item associated with it...
A little difficult to trace them all from the schematics as they are not all interlinked in the design... you need to hunt each one down individually.
but I do believe this has something to do with the interior lighting relay.
It seems to be the only relay between the fuse panel and the Processor, I am hoping it may be out of sorts... Just need to find where it is hiding now lol
#11
04-19-2014, 11:23 PM
I am a little confused (nothing strange about that)
While looking through the Haynes manual at the positions of the relays... and even the schematics.... I noticed that the 1990-1992 schematics and relay positioning more closely resemble mine.
Maybe this is an Australian thing, or maybe my car was like the change over model.... it was built late '88 according to the compliance plates etc.
I also noticed when getting the parts I needed from the donor car, it too had subtle differences to mine.... it too was '88.
to look at mine it seems to more closely resemble the 1990 with little things like the windscreen washer jets being different to the donor 88, and a couple of extra relays.
when I looked at the relay position chart, on the 88-89 models, it does not show the 2 relays behind the bolster that are positioned under the main row..... mine has the extra 2 just like the 1990-1992 chart.
I also have 4 relays on the left side of the boot that are also not shown on the relay position charts for 88-89 or 90-92
left side in my car are :
fuel filler cap
brake light simul
over volts
acces ign on
right side:
HRW (heated rear window)
aerial up
aerial down
only 3 not 4 relays on the right side, that would be because the ride leveling has been removed.
don't know that this has any significance, but still worth mentioning
While looking through the Haynes manual at the positions of the relays... and even the schematics.... I noticed that the 1990-1992 schematics and relay positioning more closely resemble mine.
Maybe this is an Australian thing, or maybe my car was like the change over model.... it was built late '88 according to the compliance plates etc.
I also noticed when getting the parts I needed from the donor car, it too had subtle differences to mine.... it too was '88.
to look at mine it seems to more closely resemble the 1990 with little things like the windscreen washer jets being different to the donor 88, and a couple of extra relays.
when I looked at the relay position chart, on the 88-89 models, it does not show the 2 relays behind the bolster that are positioned under the main row..... mine has the extra 2 just like the 1990-1992 chart.
I also have 4 relays on the left side of the boot that are also not shown on the relay position charts for 88-89 or 90-92
left side in my car are :
fuel filler cap
brake light simul
over volts
acces ign on
right side:
HRW (heated rear window)
aerial up
aerial down
only 3 not 4 relays on the right side, that would be because the ride leveling has been removed.
don't know that this has any significance, but still worth mentioning
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