XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Another Sunday drive...power steering

 
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:32 AM
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Default Another Sunday drive...power steering

Hi all, yet again we return home with Sunday syndrome.
This time it is a power steering question. When turning left at slow speeds(under 20 mph), car parks etc there is groan I assume is coming from the power steering pump.But not doing it when turning right. I can feel bit of vibration coming through the column and a slight hiss at the same time if this makes any sense. It did it a few times then went away and no matter how much I drove around the local shop car park when we got home it would not do it again.
That is until I turned into our drive then it did it one more time and went away again.

Any ideas?

 

Last edited by o1xjr; 06-09-2014 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:16 AM
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Assuming Wifey was IN the car, HAHA.

I reckon it is a pump relief valve having a female moment.

It is a STANDARD Saginaw pump, as in Holden, L/Cruiser/Falcon etc, and seal kits are about $20?.

The relief valve, the bit the hi pressure hose screws into is Jaguar spec, but on S1 would be Imperial, so HQish would be the same.

Try sucking the old fluid out, refill with Synthetic ATF, then with the engine running, go lock to lock a few times. Do the suck and refill again, etc. About 4 times should purge all that OLD stuff, and in most of the cases I have had over the years, that fixes the sucker.

Of course Murphy may still be living in that Jag, so maybe an exorcism is in order.
 
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:24 AM
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Thanks Grant, I will give the suck and purge method a go tomorrow.

I have edited the first post,I meant not doing it when turning right.

And you hit the nail on the head,she was in the car.(drove it every day this week and no problem until Sunday)

 

Last edited by o1xjr; 06-09-2014 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:10 AM
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At least it didn't catch fire
 
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:22 AM
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Hi All, took the wife and nieghbours for a Sunday drive in the mountains today.
XJ6 caught fire on the way home.
Took XJ6 for a mothers day "Sunday drive" yesterday. Had all sorts of shifting problems
A new problem today.
Again, my wife was in the car. Seems to run fine when I drive on my own.

XJ6 Handbrake
The wife being in the car seems to be the common denominator.....
The relationship between a man and his car/bike is a strange one....
We tend to spend a lot of time taking care of them, the Sunday bath, regular services and tune-ups, meticulously maintaining her tire pressures etc, and at the slightest problem we come running back to them to spend even more time and energy with them. To us men the car is almost a living entity and yes, we love them.... even if it is a love hate relationship.

I am guessing the Cat is jealous.
Only one solution:
Either the car or the the wife will have to go..... just kidding Clarke.
Does seem strange though.
Hope this problem is not serious
No fire is always seen as a bonus, But there does seem to be a pattern forming here.
I still don't understand why she won't drive it.lol
 
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:59 PM
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Default seems better so far

Grant ,I drained and refilled 4 times as you suggested. The first drain was black,the 4th was slightly brown. Steering is altogether quiter and feels lighter,but that might be my imagination.
Off around Brisbane for a couple of hours to pick up bits and pieces,I will pick up more fluid and give it couple more goes later to try and get a red fluid a bit cleaner.


Another Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_9409.jpgAnother Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_9411.jpg
 

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Old 06-09-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
Grant ,I drained and refilled 4 times as you suggested. The first drain was black,the 4th was slightly brown. Steering is altogether quiter and feels lighter,but that might be my imagination.
Off around Brisbane for a couple of hours to pick up bits and pieces,I will pick up more fluid and give it couple more goes latter to try and get a red fluid a bit cleaner.


Attachment 87423Attachment 87424
Clarke, you obviously have no leaks in your steering system, even in the return fitting. I can't imagine that situation!

*Every* car I ever had, including my SII, has leaked at least a drop from time to time from the return fitting of the steering unit. I'm not sure I would know how to act if I didn't have to check the fluid level at regular intervals. On the plus side, there is no danger of the fluid becoming black and dirty.
(';')
 
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:03 AM
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Clarke, you obviously have no leaks in your steering system, even in the return fitting. I can't imagine that situation!
Make up 2 or 4 studs, with a slot in the end, to insert in some of the holes in the trans case face. These are to "guide" the pan into place in a straight direction as versus a sliding motion, to line up the holes.

Clean the pan face AND the trans face so there is NO oil residue in sight. This can be fiddly, but is critical. Any oily film and the RTV will not seal.

Apply Hi-Temp RTV in a 4mm bead around the pan face, paying attention to a circle at the numerous bolt holes, then slide the pan over the alignment studs you inserted, and apply LIGHT pressure against the trans face. Insert 4 bolts and tighten FINGER TIGHT ONLY.

I come back next morning and fit the remaining bolts, and remove the studs, then tighten to a FIRM pressure only. The setting you allowed, has basically made an RTV gasket to the exact shape of any imperfections that a cork/paper/whatever gasket cannot do.
Elinor, What I'm saving in fluid from the power steering doesn't make up for what I lose from the transmission. Had to put 600mls in it last week, that's what it has lost since I replaced the pan gasket in March. I will make an RTV gasket as per Grants method from another thread.

Grant, I flushed the system twice more this morning. It seems to be quiet and vibration free so far, the last two days I have covered about 300 km in city driving and have not heard one complaint from the pump.
 

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Old 06-11-2014, 11:30 AM
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I am reliably informed that Lucas power steering fluid/oil is guaranteed to silence such an issue!!! E bay it and read all the wonderful words and promises.
 
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:12 AM
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The wife being in the car seems to be the common denominator.....
We are heading off for 1100km round trip next weekend,across the boarder and deep into "cat_as_trophy" territory, but not quite close enough to sample some of that Coffs Coast hospitality.(we will be 190 km west).Next time we will take the coast road and pass through Coffs Harbour.
But the big thing is we will be driving home on SUNDAY, with the wife in the car.

No fire is always seen as a bonus, But there does seem to be a pattern forming here.
I still don't understand why she won't drive it.lol
She says if it makes the return trip without a problem she might have a go at driving it.
 
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:17 AM
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Confidence MATE, confidence.

Once she drives it, you will lose it, trust me.

That second Jag will happen.
 
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:26 AM
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If I wasn't confident I would be taking the Mazda (or Jeep, if I wasn't pulling the trans and manifolds off it thursday to replace $15 worth of welsh plugs)

Once she drives it, you will lose it, trust me.
She likes her Mazda too much.
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:20 AM
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Default Remove power steering pump

Since I disturbed the PS pump two weeks ago the replace water pump and belts,it has been losing about 100 ml of fluid a week,and the groan when turning left had reappeared.
I assumed I had cracked a 40 year old hose when moving the pump,but after putting car up on stands I can see no fluid anywhere near the hoses and they are fairly new. There is fluid dripping off bottom of pump cover and the lower radiator hose below it so I removed the pump for a closer look(glad it's not a V12 after seeing the work space under Paul's bonnet yesterday,I can almost slide down beside my engine to work on it).
Ordered a new seal kit this morning from Repco,$15. They delivered it at 3.30 pm. They do three runs a day to local garages to deliver parts and I am on the route so I get home delivery as a bonus.(pays to use the same shop for 20 + years)
The book says undo nut and remove pulley, well that part took me an hour. My vice wasn't big enough to hold the pulley,after much swearing and hitting my fingers with a mallet I ended up wedging the pulley in a wooden draw under my workbench and pushing it shut with my knees while hammering the nut until it relinquished it grip.
Used a lot of tools for a small job,nearly every nut and bolt for this job is a different size.



Another Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_0239.jpgAnother Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_0272.jpg
 
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:15 AM
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I learned two things about the Saginaw PS in my Jaguar. The high pressure line fitting must be supertight. Tight access with the LT1 in place. Luckily my stuff included a 13Mm line wrench. That and my son's strong hands did the deed. Weeping lines now tight and dry.


When I assembled it, I thought I had the hoses on tight while the engine bay was bare!!!


There are places for gorilla tight screws!!!


Carl
 
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:55 AM
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I didn't really think of the pump being a miniature hydraulic pump, but once I got it apart the internals were very familiar to me. While it is out I replaced the bearing on the tensioner pulley,old one was ok but I replaced bearing anyway.
The flow control valve was a bit burred so cleaned that up and it moves freely now. All back together now and ready to go back on the car.

Another Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_0294.jpgAnother Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_0298.jpg
 
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by littlelic69 View Post
I am reliably informed that Lucas power steering fluid/oil is guaranteed to silence such an issue!!! E bay it and read all the wonderful words and promises.
I used it once.

The local Lucas distributor paid to replace pump and lines without argument other than sending in the invoice.

Guess it's happened a few times.
 
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:49 AM
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A strange relation between a man and his car or bike! Oh, how true. In my former profession we had a saying. When a man is involved in an accident on his bike or in his car, three things are important to him. His vehicle, his job and any injury. In that order!!! Many of us relied on that and slightly overpaid for the car repair to reap benefits in a lessor work time or injury allocation.


Last year, the high side hose on the Jeep's power steering failed. Interestingly the strands that make up the hose run in a twisting pattern from end to end. It leaked all along it's length big time. it started in a town about twenty miles away. But, it got me home. No loss of assist, either. Swapping it out was straight forward, except for one end down in the Jeep's bowels. I could get a wrench o0n the fitting, but, not enough room for a strong pull. Epiphany !. I have a small handle for s section of hack saw blade for use in close quarters. Just the thing, I cut the metal end off flush with the fitting. Now, with the use of a couple of extensions, I got a socket on the nut. Easy with proper leverage. it went back together just fine. More fluid and all is well. Daughter is herding it at present. Her Passat is on dead line. Busted compressor mount bolts.


Carl
 
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:46 PM
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After today's road test, no more leaks so far. And the steering is quiet,just the slightest hiss on full lock.
I don't know if it is my imagination, but the steering feels smoother than it has since bought the car...........So what haven't I pulled apart yet,hmm motor or front suspension. Where is the next surprise going to pop up?

Another Sunday drive...power steering-dsc_0379.jpg
 
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:34 PM
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Heater blowers going kaput could be an interesting project for you, Clarke.

Although I hope you never have to deal with that, because there are 2 of them, and if one goes hinky it's only a matter of time before the other joins it, so if you work on one you might as well do both.

Every power steering equipped car I ever had gave a small hiss at full lock, including Wart (the Windstar) and my work truck. I've come to think it's normal.
(';')
 
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:29 AM
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Good one Clarke.

That "hiss" is in fact normal. It is the pressure blow off valve doing what it is designed to do, blowing off.
 
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