Electric Jag ?
#22
Been surfing YouTube and came across "Battery advancement technology" ,..which led to electric car conversions.
There is an industry of people who are converting older cars to all electric drive.
Got to wondering (after watching several vids) when is someone going to convert a S2/3 Jag to all electric drive. Intriguing idea ? Not so crazy after you watch some of those vids.
https://dgit.com/10-awesome-ev-class...versions-8592/
There is an industry of people who are converting older cars to all electric drive.
Got to wondering (after watching several vids) when is someone going to convert a S2/3 Jag to all electric drive. Intriguing idea ? Not so crazy after you watch some of those vids.
https://dgit.com/10-awesome-ev-class...versions-8592/
#25
A mustang is a good conversion candidate as they are so light and simple, as I said previously Jag saloons less so...
#26
im converting my series 1 xj6 to full electric. there are two other existing examples of older xj6's that i know of. My completed setup will be 450hp, range of 300+km and look entirely stock. it will weigh a little more than stock, but still 400kg lighter than a Tesla model s. It will charge from a regular power point and the fast charge ones. For now i'll have a petrol car for longer trips but thats only once every year or so. in time technology will probably phase out the need for petrol entirely but not for many many years/ decades.
Tesla's have axial motors, alloy structure, slippery aerodynamics, the latest LI battery tech, economies of scale and they still loose money on ever 80k car they build. All these high concept items are out of the reach of the hobbiest at this point.
Bottom line is...all the practical compromises that a hobbiest has to take like retaining a oil bath differential instead of using an axel motors constrains efficiency and therefore range.
At some point in the distant future efficient low cost axle drive motors, electric power steering racks and electric brakes will all be common place for an auto enthusiast.
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slofut (06-30-2018)
#27
lol... Never gonna happen. I spoken to many people who have spent mega bucks converting their cars. Range is often 30 to 40 miles on a warm day with the a/c off. Costs for entry into this limited range anxiety club is often 15 to 30k.
Tesla's have axial motors, alloy structure, slippery aerodynamics, the latest LI battery tech, economies of scale and they still loose money on ever 80k car they build. All these high concept items are out of the reach of the hobbiest at this point.
Bottom line is...all the practical compromises that a hobbiest has to take like retaining a oil bath differential instead of using an axel motors constrains efficiency and therefore range.
At some point in the distant future efficient low cost axle drive motors, electric power steering racks and electric brakes will all be common place for an auto enthusiast.
Tesla's have axial motors, alloy structure, slippery aerodynamics, the latest LI battery tech, economies of scale and they still loose money on ever 80k car they build. All these high concept items are out of the reach of the hobbiest at this point.
Bottom line is...all the practical compromises that a hobbiest has to take like retaining a oil bath differential instead of using an axel motors constrains efficiency and therefore range.
At some point in the distant future efficient low cost axle drive motors, electric power steering racks and electric brakes will all be common place for an auto enthusiast.
I'm $15k in, should be done for $25, and very much a hobby. I'm a social worker during the day and started the project to learn more about electricity.
Series 1 xj6 weighs like 1700kg, tesla weighs 2200KG, I could leave the original engine in and add the batteries and motor and still be close to under tesla weight. Therefore i would expect a small range improvement over Tesla numbers.
two years ago you were right.I first started planning my build then and when i went to buy parts, i found everything had changed. Larger numbers of OEM batteries have decimated the price of the most expensive part of the build. AC motors are also cheaper and more powerful. The rising number of electric cars has improved availability of the parts youve mentioned, although there was still plenty of variety already. The state of the technology today is a little better than you mentioned, but i dont blame you for that perception. The industry has a PR problem, self induced and also imposed my media.
Last edited by itchyback; 06-30-2018 at 07:19 AM.
#29
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SW Ga. Home of grits and gnats!
Posts: 495
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Itchy,
Please indulge me here,
I got rid of my electric golf carts in favor of gas. The electrics required much more maintenance, keeping electrolyte topped up, keeping charge topped up, battery acid spills and fumes (not so much), replacing $800 batteries every 5 years, etc. Biggest thing, if I went a few weeks and didn't use one and if the batteries discharged enough I'd have to disconnect, charge them one at the time to get sufficient charge to turn on the 36v charger. Then there's the resulting sulphation from deep discharging. 12 High current connections and controllers to start with, (I'm in electronics) I got tired of it. With gas, a little X-100 in the tank, fill up once every two months if I use it a lot, and it can sit three months and go instantly when I push the go pedal. Sooo much less hassle.
Of course I'm not comparing this ancient tech to what you're doing, but it's left a bad taste with me for electric. The recent cars have tons of high current connections and lots of expensive control equipment and expensive batteries. How do the lithium batteries not off gas? Even button cells off gas, I've seen some that were bad enough you couldn't use them in a closed watch case or it will corrode the whole movement. I've also seen recently where a company has solved the problem of internal shorts with lithiums causing catastrophic explosion, a very small company, and if I'm not mistaken even less costly. And what's the life span and cost of the batteries? The battery pack in the Factory XKE conversion looks to have a much neater way to connect all the batteries (prob straps), it's all in one solid unit, but still the connections are there, just harder to get to. Idk... just questions in my mind. That said, I LOVE the torque from electric power! Your thoughts would be appreciated. (I do have an Isetta sitting around with nothing to do, needs about 300lbft of torque)
Bill
Please indulge me here,
I got rid of my electric golf carts in favor of gas. The electrics required much more maintenance, keeping electrolyte topped up, keeping charge topped up, battery acid spills and fumes (not so much), replacing $800 batteries every 5 years, etc. Biggest thing, if I went a few weeks and didn't use one and if the batteries discharged enough I'd have to disconnect, charge them one at the time to get sufficient charge to turn on the 36v charger. Then there's the resulting sulphation from deep discharging. 12 High current connections and controllers to start with, (I'm in electronics) I got tired of it. With gas, a little X-100 in the tank, fill up once every two months if I use it a lot, and it can sit three months and go instantly when I push the go pedal. Sooo much less hassle.
Of course I'm not comparing this ancient tech to what you're doing, but it's left a bad taste with me for electric. The recent cars have tons of high current connections and lots of expensive control equipment and expensive batteries. How do the lithium batteries not off gas? Even button cells off gas, I've seen some that were bad enough you couldn't use them in a closed watch case or it will corrode the whole movement. I've also seen recently where a company has solved the problem of internal shorts with lithiums causing catastrophic explosion, a very small company, and if I'm not mistaken even less costly. And what's the life span and cost of the batteries? The battery pack in the Factory XKE conversion looks to have a much neater way to connect all the batteries (prob straps), it's all in one solid unit, but still the connections are there, just harder to get to. Idk... just questions in my mind. That said, I LOVE the torque from electric power! Your thoughts would be appreciated. (I do have an Isetta sitting around with nothing to do, needs about 300lbft of torque)
Bill
Last edited by slofut; 06-30-2018 at 08:12 AM.
#30
slofut,
Self discharge is just not an issue and Lithium doesnt have the issues of lead acid just dying like that. I havent touched mine in 12months, still all good. like any battery, over discharge is an issue, and requires some fancy electronics to manage that, but just like any battery, follow the rules, take care and you'll be fine. electric cars dont have the fluids/ maintenance/ moving parts of a petrol engine. way less maintenance.
Lithium batteries dont let off gas so its not an issue. Lithium fires are getting a lot of press. But electric cars still dont catch fire as much as petrol. It would seem like itbecause they get a lot of press but its just not true. batteries will last 10yrs with good care and daily usage, then can be used for stationary storage like for your house where range isnt as much of an issue. Tesla modules sound very similar to the XKE modules, but i havent seen the XKE so cant be sure.
Do the isetta, love it! if not i'll buy it and i will. 300ftlbs lol!
Self discharge is just not an issue and Lithium doesnt have the issues of lead acid just dying like that. I havent touched mine in 12months, still all good. like any battery, over discharge is an issue, and requires some fancy electronics to manage that, but just like any battery, follow the rules, take care and you'll be fine. electric cars dont have the fluids/ maintenance/ moving parts of a petrol engine. way less maintenance.
Lithium batteries dont let off gas so its not an issue. Lithium fires are getting a lot of press. But electric cars still dont catch fire as much as petrol. It would seem like itbecause they get a lot of press but its just not true. batteries will last 10yrs with good care and daily usage, then can be used for stationary storage like for your house where range isnt as much of an issue. Tesla modules sound very similar to the XKE modules, but i havent seen the XKE so cant be sure.
Do the isetta, love it! if not i'll buy it and i will. 300ftlbs lol!
#31
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
Posts: 7,362
Received 1,231 Likes
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my everyday GOLF cart, 36 volt, Trojon batteries, been 5yrs without any problems , wife drives it every where around the BIG Rv park, 250 sites, great for laundry, pick up mail, see her friends YAKKITY YAK. LOL.
most important fro ME is quiet sound ,and NO obnoxiuos fumes , no putt/puttin !.
we love it !
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slofut (06-30-2018)
#32
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SW Ga. Home of grits and gnats!
Posts: 495
Received 116 Likes
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slofut,
Self discharge is just not an issue and Lithium doesnt have the issues of lead acid just dying like that. I havent touched mine in 12months, still all good. like any battery, over discharge is an issue, and requires some fancy electronics to manage that, but just like any battery, follow the rules, take care and you'll be fine. electric cars dont have the fluids/ maintenance/ moving parts of a petrol engine. way less maintenance.
Lithium batteries dont let off gas so its not an issue. Lithium fires are getting a lot of press. But electric cars still dont catch fire as much as petrol. It would seem like itbecause they get a lot of press but its just not true. batteries will last 10yrs with good care and daily usage, then can be used for stationary storage like for your house where range isnt as much of an issue. Tesla modules sound very similar to the XKE modules, but i havent seen the XKE so cant be sure.
Do the isetta, love it! if not i'll buy it and i will. 300ftlbs lol!
Self discharge is just not an issue and Lithium doesnt have the issues of lead acid just dying like that. I havent touched mine in 12months, still all good. like any battery, over discharge is an issue, and requires some fancy electronics to manage that, but just like any battery, follow the rules, take care and you'll be fine. electric cars dont have the fluids/ maintenance/ moving parts of a petrol engine. way less maintenance.
Lithium batteries dont let off gas so its not an issue. Lithium fires are getting a lot of press. But electric cars still dont catch fire as much as petrol. It would seem like itbecause they get a lot of press but its just not true. batteries will last 10yrs with good care and daily usage, then can be used for stationary storage like for your house where range isnt as much of an issue. Tesla modules sound very similar to the XKE modules, but i havent seen the XKE so cant be sure.
Do the isetta, love it! if not i'll buy it and i will. 300ftlbs lol!
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...owered-e-type/
#33
two years ago you were right.I first started planning my build then and when i went to buy parts, i found everything had changed. Larger numbers of OEM batteries have decimated the price of the most expensive part of the build. AC motors are also cheaper and more powerful. The rising number of electric cars has improved availability of the parts youve mentioned, although there was still plenty of variety already. The state of the technology today is a little better than you mentioned, but i dont blame you for that perception. The industry has a PR problem, self induced and also imposed my media.
#34
Post a video of it running and driving, if not then it didnt happen..and I'm kinda sure it wont. Too many technical hurdles that cost to much for too little range. Axle motors are are just one of the many design efficiencies necessary for some sort of usable range. Now quit your 12 month break and get too it and prove me wrong. That aint gonna happen either.
#35
As a couple of you have alluded, the rear axle in our jags doesn't lend itself to using the nice neat motor/gearbox ~10:1 combination units that are in EVs. Surely the Jag isn't the best candidate, but it is far from the worst. My motor fits in the transmission tunnel, charger in a small portion of one of the fuel tank locations and the car with Nissan leaf batteries is about 200 pounds lighter than the XJ6 as it started. Depending on your battery choice, you can be at my weight with up to ~110 miles of range or you can jump anywhere up to almost exactly XJ12 weight with a 90-100 kWh pack for 300 miles of range. Really not bad at all, it's just the motor selection that's tough. I haven't cranked mine up yet, as I'm building a higher power controller, but at full tilt the motor is calculating at being able to kick out 1200ft-lb of torque straight into the ~3.5 LSD
Go ahead and make one, they're AWESOME and the electric motor totally suits the XJ. Smooth, effortless and silent power B)
Last edited by Bry5on; 07-01-2018 at 12:09 PM.
#36
300 miles? is that supposed to be a Guiness record? just asking because on a 813 mile trip from Florida to Tennessee I get 545 miles from my two gasoline tanks before I have to refill. Doing 70-80 mpg with a/c on, and on Cruise. So obviously, I will arrive in Nashville hours before the Electric Jag.
Last edited by Jose; 07-01-2018 at 04:40 PM.
#37
I'm not sure if you're just trying to ignite an internet argument or you're genuinely curious, but DIY electric cars will certainly have different costs and different benefits from gasoline cars. Certainly you should factor in how you use your car if you're thinking about a conversion. 300 miles is generally considered good for an EV using battery tech from a couple years ago that's now available on the second hand market
Last edited by Bry5on; 07-01-2018 at 01:31 PM.
#38
As a couple of you have alluded, the rear axle in our jags doesn't lend itself to using the nice neat motor/gearbox ~10:1 combination units that are in EVs. Surely the Jag isn't the best candidate, but it is far from the worst. My motor fits in the transmission tunnel, charger in a small portion of one of the fuel tank locations and the car with Nissan leaf batteries is about 200 pounds lighter than the XJ6 as it started. Depending on your battery choice, you can be at my weight with up to ~110 miles of range or you can jump anywhere up to almost exactly XJ12 weight with a 90-100 kWh pack for 300 miles of range. Really not bad at all, it's just the motor selection that's tough. I haven't cranked mine up yet, as I'm building a higher power controller, but at full tilt the motor is calculating at being able to kick out 1200ft-lb of torque straight into the ~3.5 LSD
Go ahead and make one, they're AWESOME and the electric motor totally suits the XJ. Smooth, effortless and silent power B)
Many nice cars can manage 30 mpg these days. Some small cars do much better. So for now...the cost to go 300 miles in one of these around here is $30. Comparatively the cost to go 300 miles at 90kw at 0.24/kw around here is $23. So thats a 7$ savings for every 300 miles. Over 200k miles you'd save $4300 for a 30MPG gasser or 1300$ for a 35MPG gasser. Ouch! At 12,000 miles per year, thats 16 years. Technology moves too fast to make that sort of investment up front. Battery technology and capacity/ LBS has to increase exponentially for electric cars to make sence. The 1915 Detroit electric could mange 80 miles on a charge so basically we've got 3 times the range in 100+ years in a car that costs dearly with a side of range anxiety. Aint looking for good for mass adoption of the Electric car in my life time. The low cost battery revolution has not materialized,
I'm not anti-electic...my daily driver is a Rx400h and I understand the virtues of electrification. I paid a high premium for the hybrid and my back of the envelope calculations suggests no fuel savings over the life of the vehicle despite higher upfront costs. There are some derivative savings, like very few repairs and just 2 brake service jobs over the 203k miles the hybrid has traveled.
As for saving the planet, dont worry about that... there's an asteroid with our name on it somewhere out there. It's just a matter of time.
Last edited by icsamerica; 07-01-2018 at 01:53 PM.
#39
Gas pedal is the same, AC is easy, range depends on how you drive it and how much rounding you're doing. I drive mostly around town where EVs are highly efficient, versus mixed freeway which is the 285 mile. I don't own a 30mpg car, which I would have had to purchase, and I charge for free at work. Carrying high power lithium batteries is a real but mitigateable risk. Like many have said, it's situationally dependent right now. Many of my colleagues and friends are working the battery density solutions, they will come eventually.
You're more than welcome to wait for batteries to get better, nobody is trying to force your hand eventually the economics will make the decision easy, but not yet!
You're more than welcome to wait for batteries to get better, nobody is trying to force your hand eventually the economics will make the decision easy, but not yet!
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ronbros (07-01-2018)
#40
isamerica, i dont want to decide whether youre being fiesty or encouraging. For now i'll choose encouraging, so thank you. I'll be back.
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