XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Window rolls down but not up

 
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:38 PM
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Default Window rolls down but not up

Tuesday morning, I noticed my driver's side window rolling up slower and slower until, by Friday afternoon, it barely rolled up at all. Typically, the final 2 inches would be faster that the first 80% of the path of travel, if that makes any sense.

It rolls down like a champ.

No mechanical/grinding noises, just very, very slow.

Am I likely looking at a new motor or something else? My mechanic suggested silicone in the window channels but since I have to roll the window down to do that, with not much confidence I'll be able to get it rolled back up again, I'm hoping to set myself up for a quick resolution with a plan B.

Thanks in advance,
Rhett
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:57 PM
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The problem is with contacts in the switch - a coating of carbon that prevents current flow. These switches carry much more current than switches in modern cars and the result is dirty contacts with resultant poor or no performance and for obvious reasons the driver's window is the one most affected. Solution: remove the switch, take it apart gently, and use a pencil eraser to clean the contacts. Reassemble and enjoy another 20 years of fast window operation. I'm short, no, it is not a problem with the motor. You can easily test by swapping the connector from another window which does work but as the driver's window supplies power to the others you must swap connectors, not leave the driver's switch with no connector.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:03 PM
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How do the other 3 windows perform?

Just a thought before you discount the silicone treatment:

Mine had a similar ailment when purchased, the drivers window very slow "up", slightly better "down". The other 3 would barely move. With the channels lubed and the windows raised/lowered many times to thoroughly distribute the silicone, all windows have since performed faultlessly. To do this effectively it's best to remove the door cards allowing you to get silicone into the lower channel sections. Could be your channels have slowly been drying out over time.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:22 PM
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Thanks for the responses. All other windows perform flawlessly. I will give the silicone a try and, if that does not work, take a look at the switch.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:39 PM
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Default Graphite powder, not silicone

Hi Rhett (and Jagent),

Silicone attracts dust.

Channels will work until you get the build up of dirt in them from the silicone treatment and then the windows will slow down again and probably even worse than before because of an even bigger build up of gunk.

Dirt gets in when you wind the windows down at rest or on that delightful summer evening cruise!

Graphite powder is a dry lubricant and does not attract dust.

Just be very careful when you apply it, as graphite goes everywhere. How do I know that?!

I used graphite on my slow moving windows and they now all still work a treat 8 -9 months since I did it, bar the rear windows which have intermittent dirty contact non movement moments.

However, even as careful as I was applying it, I can still see graphite where its not meant to be after all this time.

Just my two bobs worth.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jag-o-nomic View Post
Hi Rhett (and Jagent),

Silicone attracts dust.
I understand that the properties of silicone are not exactly dust repellent, but I must say I've never had a problem with it on the window channels. After 12 months they're still clean as a whistle. Then again, my Jag is not a daily driver and always parked with windows up! On a daily driver in frequent dusty conditions silicone might be less desirable.

I avoid using graphite for the reasons Nigel mentions, even in locks. The alternative (compromise?) is this WD40 product - damned expensive and it works, but not as well as silicone IMO. However, it is a dry lube that specifically states it won't attract dust & dirt and is easy to apply being a spray with fine nozzle.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:22 PM
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The silicone didn't help, in any case.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:05 PM
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By the sound of it the motor is tired or the grease in the regulator has hardened up. Try going through the regulator, give it some cleaning and lubing and see if there's any improvement. Also try shorting the wiring from behind the switch and see if it operates properly, which would show a worn out switch instead. I do run into failed window switches pretty often on a lot of cars.
 
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:35 AM
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Again: it is the switch. The switch needs to be taken apart (carefully) and the contacts cleaned. I cannot tell you how many times this has cured slow moving and non-moving windows in the Series III cars. It is not the motor!
 
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Old 09-11-2016, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sov211 View Post
Again: it is the switch. The switch needs to be taken apart (carefully) and the contacts cleaned. I cannot tell you how many times this has cured slow moving and non-moving windows in the Series III cars. It is not the motor!
I'll see about removing and disassembling the switch tomorrow. Thanks.
 
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Old 09-11-2016, 06:27 AM
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Window switches. DITTO!!


I've done it a couple of times or more. And, I acquired some spares.
Some appeared to be new or close to it.


Only once did I find the internals of a switch busted. They are delicate inside.


Tools:
1. Two pans. One for inside, use for the two drivers and the little screws.
2. A small Pozi driver. In a pinch a Phillips will do.
3. A small flat blade driver.
4. Pencil eraser or similar to burnish parts.
5. Contact cleaner. I've never tried this yet.


Process.


Remove the cubby lid and set aside in the car. Remove the cubby junk and pan. Release the ski slope with ash trays intact. Disconnect five couplers from the five switches. Push the wires into quadrants. Lf,Rf,Lr,Rr. Up and down noted. They will connect upside down and then the window response will be opposite of the intended. I did that once. I was tempted to live with it. Thought better of it, and opened the patient and fixed the guts.


On to the bench. work over pan 2. Teeny parts can stray. Note the position of a pivot point on the side of the switch. Press it inward til it frees the rocker from it's box. It will now slide out. Care with the two little contact posts. Note the position of teeny curved brass contacts at the bottom of the box. Remove them. Burnish them til they are clean. Pencil eraser here, steel wool bit of emery paper, etc.


Here is where a snort of contact cleaner might help.


While in the cavity, I would service all five. Four windpows and one for the sun roof.


In Jaguarese . Assemble in reverse order.


I've thought of rotation, but have never done it. Driver and front passenger for rear door units. Spread the wear???


It will work and one gets satisfaction from a task done.


Carl
 
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:39 PM
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Thanks to everyone but especially sov211 and JagCad; it was the switch. Thanks also to David at EverydayXJ.com, who sent me not one but two replacement switches (not at all sure I could work on the switch without butchering it) for just a few dollars; saving the day as he has so many times before.

I'll take the original switch apart now without fear that I'll somehow make the situation worse.
 

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Old 09-15-2016, 08:32 AM
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Great!!! David Boger to the rescue, once more!!! Good work.


Agree, do the ones you replaced. A bit fiddly, but very doable. Mark 'em as fixed and store for the future. It might be a while, though!!!


Carl
 
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:47 AM
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G;ad to help. You'll find that the electrical problems with Series III cars are generally very easy to fix if you head straight to the fuses and connectors. In short, go back to the Middle Ages and Occam's Razor: (cutting through the confusion) the simplest answer is likely the right answer. And with these cars it almost always is.
 
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:14 PM
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Hi All,

Is it possible to take apart the switches for a Series 1 XJ6? My rear windows are sluggish/non functional and I'd like to clean the switches to see if it helps.

Can anyone provide pictures to help? I'm not able to find the pivot point that Carl is referring to.

Thanks!
Matt
 
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:48 PM
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Default Series 1 switches are different

I have seen one that was broken - apart... does not look like it could be serviced easily. Get a replacement and another as a spare (they are all alike) and you will "ward off the evil spirits" due to having a spare...
 
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:24 PM
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if you have a spare , you may never need it , Lucas law.
 
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:37 PM
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Default Cleaned the switches, Windows still don't work

I was able to get the switches open cleanly, cleaned them, tested, same results.

Windows are super sluggish and just stop a quarter way down. Left side won't work at all, stopped before I cleaned the switches. I tested it's switch on the front to make sure it's not the switch. I can't even push it up or down while engaging the switch.

I've contacted David the parts guy to get new motors.

Any insight is appreciated.

MC
 
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:30 AM
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Matt:


I have an idea that the switches in your car differ from those in my 83!!!


Unfortunately, I have no digital or film pictures of mine to share.


I'll try a word picture. A small black box with a rocker on the face. The rocker has pins on each side. The box has holes on each side. The pins of the rocker fit snugly in to those holes. That combination is the fulcrum on which the rocker pivots.


Locate the pin on one side. Apply a gentle pressure. That should spread the side of the box just enough to free the pin on one side and allow the rocker to be removed from the box.


The innards of the switch are now exposed. The rocker has two teeny spring loaded posts. Beware, don't lose the part. The catch pan comes in here.


The box has two "wave shaped" contacts at the bottom. Note how positioned.


Clean all contacts. Contact cleaner, pencil eraser, fine emery cloth or any thing that comes to mind.


Assemble in careful reverse order. Not the need to spread the box slightly to enabvle the rocker pins to enter their respective holes.


Manual test. Rocker should snap forward and back. If not springy snaps, the assembly process was not done correctly. Do it again. What went wrong???




Added. As you work on the piece think of it's design logic.
Carl
 
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BuzzysJag View Post
I was able to get the switches open cleanly, cleaned them, tested, same results.

Windows are super sluggish and just stop a quarter way down. Left side won't work at all, stopped before I cleaned the switches. I tested it's switch on the front to make sure it's not the switch. I can't even push it up or down while engaging the switch.

I've contacted David the parts guy to get new motors.

Any insight is appreciated.

MC
Not sure about the motors as they're usually the last thing to go, but yours may be part of the problem. However, even if you install new motors and the switches have been refurbed, remove the inner door panels and lube the mechanism, and most importantly, thoroughly lube the window channels (silicone spray does work well) as these dry out and harden over time. As I mentioned earlier, my windows used to be very sluggish, and wouldn't lower fully. They were cured entirely with lubrication and all four now work like new - literally! If your windows are up, lube the lower channels, roll the windows down, lube the top channels, roll up then down and up several times with more lube in between. I'm not guaranteeing your situation will be the same as mine, but my switches and motors turned out to be fine and have remained so all along. I'm glad I got the lube happening first!
 

Last edited by jagent; 12-22-2016 at 03:11 PM.
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