XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Xj6 starting problems after overheating

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Old Dec 17, 2020 | 06:44 PM
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Default Xj6 starting problems after overheating

Hello! I finally registered to this site that I've been deeply thankful for in the past year. I have a 1985 jaguar XJ6 as a daily driver and have done ample research about it and fixed a few common problems. However, I'm faced now with one that may be catastrophic and I dont have the money to fix it. This example only had 49k miles on it and is in great overall shape. It was rebuilt in 2012 with all new gaskets and a used head. That was less then 6k miles ago. I'd love to keep it for a lifetime..but I need it back on the road!
I was driving down the highway the other week when my power steering/water pump belt broke. My thermostat hadn't been working recently, so I was unaware of the heat until my radiator hose exploded. I pulled over and assessed the situation. My budget didn't allow for a toe and I was only about 20 miles way from home. I had a friend take me to a nearby auto parts store and I fixed the hose and filled it up with antifreeze and prayed that my water pump wasnt connected to the belt they broke. I made it about 10 miles until I tried to pull over to allow it to cool as I had noticed something was wrong and I was pushing it. On the off ramp, the car died on me completely and begun smoking quite bad. Some good samaritans helped me push it to a gas station, where I later figured out how to get it toed home. Prior to this happening, I had it in perfect running order. Now I deal with a new problem.
Upon attempting to start, the engine turns over but slowly and not with the UMPH! I'm used to. It doesn't come close to catching. It's almost like it has no battery power. I've checked the battery and had a friend jump it for some time before trying it.
Oil cap is clean, and no sign of oil/antifreeze mix in dip stick.
I did a quick compression test on the first cylinder just now and got 60psi. I figured it would be low however because of the way it was turning over.
I'm lost here, and this is my only car. Fixes that are budget friendly are much appriciated...I'm very worried I blew a gasket.
 
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Old Dec 17, 2020 | 08:41 PM
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Possible leaking head gasket...and if there's liquid in the cylinder(s) the cranking could be very slow or possibly non-existent. If that's the case you might've done damage (bent rods) by trying...as liquid won't compress.

Perhaps some other internal engine damage due to overheat. This could cause slow cranking if the overheating was bad enough. In essence, the engine might be seizing-up.

If you only have a blown head gasket and are a good DYI mechanic then it might not cost too much for parts. Big job, though. The car will be down for a spell. And you might have a warped cylinder head or cracked block...as the cooling passages at the top of the block tend to crack.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any budget fixes in your future. The 60 psi compression is not good no matter how you slice it.

Sorry.

Let's wait to hear what others think

DD
 

Last edited by Doug; Dec 17, 2020 at 10:34 PM.
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 12:42 AM
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I might add a couple of diagnostic procedures that will be free, except for a little help from a friend. Everything Doug mentioned is absolutely possible or probable, but maybe you can narrow down what is damaged.

If the engine actually will crank over, remove all of the spark plugs and then crank it. Does it spin noticeably faster? Probably. If you took the compression test without removing the other 5 spark plugs, the engine more than likely didn't spin fast enough for a representative pressure. Also, you should spin at least three compression strokes on the cylinder you are testing. The second cycle reading higher than the first and the third cycle slightly higher than the second. If you still get a low pressure (below 100) and it is about the same on each cycle, the cylinder(s) are leaking. Past the piston/rings, valve(s), or head gasket. You would not have any compression if there was a hole in the piston.

With the plugs still out, put a ratchet/wrench on the bolt holding the dampener on the front of the crank and turn the engine over by hand. If nothing is seized (won't turn at all) or abnormally tight, you should be able to turn it with one hand on the wrench. If you can, then maybe check your starter and all associated cables and wiring as well as actually testing the battery with a volt meter. A good battery with the NEGATIVE disconnected should read something north of 13vdc.

No sign of antifreeze on the dip stick is a good thing, is the coolant level still the same as when you fixed the hose? Remove the thermostat, and top it with water, no need to worry about the down-side of only water at this point. Put the plugs back in and tighten them as normal and then crank the engine again. Did it go back to cranking very slow? Re: starter/electrical. If it will, crank it for a good 5 to 10 seconds with your friend looking into the expansion tank. You are looking for air bubbles coming up to the surface of the water. This will tell you the head gasket is leaking or the block/head has developed a crack between the water jacket and combustion chamber. The latter is worse than the former. You may get water bubbles and some gurgling when the system is refilled with water as the air in the cooling system is dispelled by the water, this is normal. Once it stops gurgling and the expansion tank is nearly full, do the crank test.

Did the oil on the dip stick smell burned or "nasty"? Just another confirmation that the engine got way hotter than it should. Did you happen to look at the oil pressure gauge about the time the radiator hose blew or when it quit and started smoking? Very much lower than the last time you drove the car at that RPM? Was the smoke coming out of the exhaust as the engine was dying or was it coming from under the bonnet? Out the exhaust means oil is getting into the combustion chamber, most commonly from collapsed rings and/or badly scored piston. Coming from under the bonnet could be residual coolant from the blown hose on the super hot block.

If anything Doug or I have offered rears it's ugly head, you have an idea what might be causing the problem(s). In any case, I'm afraid you are looking at a total tear-down of the engine high level overhaul.

Dave
 
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 04:43 AM
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An '85 will have the slotted block so shouldn't have cracks between the bores, but an overheating event like you describe, AND driving it afterwards for some distance will in all likelihood have blown the headgasket, and if you got a lot of coolant in the bores, a possible huydraulic lock has bent one or more conrods, and probably damaged the crank bearings. To be honest, I don't see any "budget" fix here at all.
 
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 07:19 AM
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I had the water pump belt snap one time in my 1984 about 15 miles from home.

I stopped and assesed the situation. removed the expansion tank pressure cap, and kept driving as fast as the road conditions allowed and watching the.Temp gauge.

no head gasket failure. it just boiled and burped the coolant with the typical smoke.

but it got me home. I replaced the belt, the engine was restarted a day later. refilled the coolant and it has kept going for years.

my point is that in my experience, pushing the engine with a broken belt would not cause such damage as to destroy the engine. I would check the battery and the alternator.
 
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LT1 jaguar
I might add a couple of diagnostic procedures that will be free, except for a little help from a friend. Everything Doug mentioned is absolutely possible or probable, but maybe you can narrow down what is damaged.

If the engine actually will crank over, remove all of the spark plugs and then crank it. Does it spin noticeably faster? Probably. If you took the compression test without removing the other 5 spark plugs, the engine more than likely didn't spin fast enough for a representative pressure. Also, you should spin at least three compression strokes on the cylinder you are testing. The second cycle reading higher than the first and the third cycle slightly higher than the second. If you still get a low pressure (below 100) and it is about the same on each cycle, the cylinder(s) are leaking. Past the piston/rings, valve(s), or head gasket. You would not have any compression if there was a hole in the piston.

With the plugs still out, put a ratchet/wrench on the bolt holding the dampener on the front of the crank and turn the engine over by hand. If nothing is seized (won't turn at all) or abnormally tight, you should be able to turn it with one hand on the wrench. If you can, then maybe check your starter and all associated cables and wiring as well as actually testing the battery with a volt meter. A good battery with the NEGATIVE disconnected should read something north of 13vdc.

No sign of antifreeze on the dip stick is a good thing, is the coolant level still the same as when you fixed the hose? Remove the thermostat, and top it with water, no need to worry about the down-side of only water at this point. Put the plugs back in and tighten them as normal and then crank the engine again. Did it go back to cranking very slow? Re: starter/electrical. If it will, crank it for a good 5 to 10 seconds with your friend looking into the expansion tank. You are looking for air bubbles coming up to the surface of the water. This will tell you the head gasket is leaking or the block/head has developed a crack between the water jacket and combustion chamber. The latter is worse than the former. You may get water bubbles and some gurgling when the system is refilled with water as the air in the cooling system is dispelled by the water, this is normal. Once it stops gurgling and the expansion tank is nearly full, do the crank test.

Did the oil on the dip stick smell burned or "nasty"? Just another confirmation that the engine got way hotter than it should. Did you happen to look at the oil pressure gauge about the time the radiator hose blew or when it quit and started smoking? Very much lower than the last time you drove the car at that RPM? Was the smoke coming out of the exhaust as the engine was dying or was it coming from under the bonnet? Out the exhaust means oil is getting into the combustion chamber, most commonly from collapsed rings and/or badly scored piston. Coming from under the bonnet could be residual coolant from the blown hose on the super hot block.

If anything Doug or I have offered rears it's ugly head, you have an idea what might be causing the problem(s). In any case, I'm afraid you are looking at a total tear-down of the engine high level overhaul.

Dave
Alright, I removed all the spark plugs and did a full compression test. I'm getting 52 psi on cylinder one, and 0 psi for every...single..other cylinder. I did spin the engine more then 3 times on every cylinder, and triple checked that I was getting accurate readings by going back and testing cylinder 1 again. The battery is good, the engine is not seized. The spark plugs didnt look like they've been in contact with antifreeze, they were still in very good shape. The oil and antifreeze smell terrible, very much so burnt. When the car died on the way back, I lost all oil pressure almost instantly. While I was driving I was watching it, and I was very slowly losing oil pressure. I dont believe I had white smoke comming from the exhaust, but I know I had plenty comming from the engine. I believe an engine swap may be my best option at this point...
I do not have a garage or any enclosed space i can work on this car. Without that, doing this at home becomes impossible.
 
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by XJ6BABY
I do not have a garage or any enclosed space i can work on this car. Without that, doing this at home becomes impossible.
As you're obviously aware, your options are very limited if you don't even have a place to work on the car. The $4000 budget you mentioned in your other thread will disappear quickly if you have to pay a shop to do the work, be it repair of this engine or an engine swap.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 09:10 PM
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You have a few honest opinions on your other thread that suggest other directions you can take. No cure for your predicament will be cheap.

Dave
 
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