XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

1983 XJS v12 to Cummins build

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 8, 2017 | 01:23 AM
  #61  
Daim's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,906
Likes: 2,183
From: Bremen, Germany
Default

Originally Posted by ronbros
daim, i think you meant 450HP ford!
No, a 45hp (1.1l down draft carb Kent 4 cylinder).
 
Reply
Old Sep 8, 2017 | 11:25 PM
  #62  
89 Jacobra's Avatar
Veteran Member
5 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Liked
Loved
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,101
Likes: 1,440
From: Arkansas
Default

Originally Posted by Pud
the engine is in such good shape too. it must've honestly had under 50k in the junk yard. i was worried but after opening it it still has the factory cylinder hone going on.. or someone did a primo rebuild
It appears quite clean inside, the outside is typical 5.9 they leak from the flat plate they use for a front cover, and a lot of times from the front crank seal. Look at the dampner, and see if it isn't grooved up pretty good. If it's not to deep, you can clean it up with some fine emory cloth. If it is to deep then you'll need the find a speedy sleeve which is driven over the neck of the balancer and creates a new wear surface for the crank seal. A truck / parts dealer, Freightliner, Mack, Peterbilt, to name a few, will have speedy sleeves. Otherwise it does look to be quite usable. Find an Old Cummins or Freightliner, dealership, and then find the oldest Mechanic in there, and ask him how to turn up the Injection pump as there's a lot of power to be had, if you know how to do it.
 
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2017 | 12:44 PM
  #63  
ronbros's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 1,241
From: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
Default

you are right Pud that is the early 1st gen Bosch VE pump, and it looks a little crusty?

now you will show us your skills if you can make it work, NOT just get running, but uping the fuel output, for reasonable power!

some of those early 6BT cummins were in industrial equipment, and like 120 hp up to 160hp, the prefered pump was the Bosch P 7100 pump, far more and simpler to mod for power increase!

i guess time will tell!
 
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2017 | 12:56 PM
  #64  
ronbros's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 1,241
From: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
Default

pic of one of my VE pumped cars ,Opel 1.8L turbo add on, it worked well, but not a fast hot rod by any means!
 
Attached Thumbnails 1983 XJS v12 to Cummins build-isuzu-add-turbo-1.8-001.jpg   1983 XJS v12 to Cummins build-isuzu-add-turbo-1.8-005.jpg   1983 XJS v12 to Cummins build-good-pix-old-yellah-001.jpg  
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2017 | 03:19 PM
  #65  
Stevieb76's Avatar
Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 40
Likes: 4
From: Middx United Kingdom
Default

I work for cumminbs uk worked on loiads of these 6bt bullet proof just pumps go often on the bushes mainly. Hope thye build goes well different...
 
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2017 | 07:25 PM
  #66  
Pud's Avatar
Pud
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 68
Likes: 26
From: New Jersey
Default

The VE pumps are arguably easier to work on, though not as performance capable as the P pumps. But thats okay, i'd rather be limited now and swap pumps down the road because i dont know how much the jag can handle haha.

Update!









Headgasket installed and valve covers / intake log all cleaned up! I kinda love this build right now, im sure it's going to **** me off sooner or later though. More work to come. Gonna do tappet cover, timing cover, filter housing and oil pan gaskets next. So far did exhaust gaskets, intake gasket, valve covers and head.

Going to try to convert it to rear sump so i can mount it further back into the car.
 
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2017 | 10:37 PM
  #67  
89 Jacobra's Avatar
Veteran Member
5 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Liked
Loved
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,101
Likes: 1,440
From: Arkansas
Default

You're making progress. I like the gold
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 04:25 AM
  #68  
Ranchero50's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 978
From: Hagerstown MD
Default

One of mine showing what I did to make it work in a 2wd '71 Ford F-350.
The chronicles of Lou, '70 F350 dually Cummins project - The FORDification.com Forums

Also done a IH 656 6bt conversion, a '89 F450 wrecker swap, a '83 Ramcharger and '93 D100 swap. Many Dodge based engine already have a rear sump pan.

Have you actually taken a tape measure and checked dimensions yet? The 6bt is one tall mother, much taller than a 350 Chevy. Not trying to be disparaging but you need a crap ton of stuff to work together for this to fit and actually work out. Early motor mounts fail and don't isolate worth a darn. I went with '94 Dodge mounts in the front. Looks like you have a crap big turbine housing and no trans adapter. SAE one won't fit anywhere.

VE's are pretty easy to wake up but we need to know the engine year before thinking about it. Should be an interesting conversation but first you need to measure everything before wasting more time on making the engine purdy.
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 08:25 AM
  #69  
Pud's Avatar
Pud
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 68
Likes: 26
From: New Jersey
Default

Ive taken many measurements. I have the adapter and transmission in the shed behind the car. Don't tell me what I need to do
I've thought about it much more than you can imagine with your easy truck swaps.
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 09:50 AM
  #70  
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14,584
Likes: 10,779
From: France
Default

Pud
if you are going to swap, then yours is a great fun idea! If the Cummins tops out at 3000 rpm (say) which is about half the v12; what are your plans for gearbox ratios?
Greg
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 09:59 AM
  #71  
Pud's Avatar
Pud
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 68
Likes: 26
From: New Jersey
Default

I'm swapping in the 47rh hydraulic transmission that came on later dodge trucks.

also. If it doesn't fit I'll make it fit. The jag cost me 250$.

it's a 1991 non ic engine. I'm sealing and cleaning up the engine because it's definitely going to work and id rather install the engine confident that it won't leak.

I have custom mounts in mind.
 

Last edited by Pud; Sep 12, 2017 at 10:02 AM.
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 10:12 AM
  #72  
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14,584
Likes: 10,779
From: France
Default

Thanks, I read your "find the weakest link" point; but FWIW, welding strengthening plates along the side of the bottom rear suspension arms is something all the racers do in the UK if they upgrade the power. In your case all that torque might even twist the driveshafts, depending upon tyre width; but as you say, suck it and see!
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 04:49 PM
  #73  
Ranchero50's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 978
From: Hagerstown MD
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Pud
Ive taken many measurements. I have the adapter and transmission in the shed behind the car. Don't tell me what I need to do
I've thought about it much more than you can imagine with your easy truck swaps.
I'm kind of torn on your response. I'm not trying to be condescending so please don't take it that way. In all honesty there isn't much easy involved at all with these swaps (except the Dodge to Dodges), especially in my '71 F-350. I'm glad you've thought it out a lot. It took me seven years to get the truck sorted out. I'm more than willing to help you along with what's worked and not worked for me. The absolute worst thing was getting it to fit well. Lopped off 3" from the bottom of the oil pan and welded up a kick out sump. I needed to lift the truck body 1.5" to clear the trans bell housing. The front dress was a mess getting it to fit and look stock. Just a ton of head scratching. I expect you'll have a similar path.

I'm running a 47rh and used the governor tap on the back to control the converter and OD lock up through pressure switches. With 3.50 gears and 235/85-16 tires I turn 1700 rpm at 70 mph. For trans cooling I stuck with the stock Dodge truck oil to water cooler that mounts under the exhaust manifold. The 6bt is very thermally efficient so it doesn't need a huge radiator like the Ford IDI's and power strokes do. I monitor the boost / pyro and trans temp with a Glow shift 3-1 gauge. You'll have to modify the kick down controls to work, from a push to a pull system as the 47rh was never paired to a VE pump.

The '91 is a good engine, shouldn't have the cracking issues from the earlier ones. Looks like your pump still has the anti tamper caps on. A 3200 spring and just basic pump tweaks should make it come alive without getting goofy. You will enjoy a smaller 16 cm3 turbine housing. The 6bt's start easy too, much easier than the IDI's.

Good luck with it and keep the pics / updates coming.
 
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2017 | 07:47 PM
  #74  
warrjon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,638
Likes: 2,583
From: Vic Australia
Default

Originally Posted by Greg in France
Thanks, I read your "find the weakest link" point; but FWIW, welding strengthening plates along the side of the bottom rear suspension arms is something all the racers do in the UK if they upgrade the power. In your case all that torque might even twist the driveshafts, depending upon tyre width; but as you say, suck it and see!
The Aston Martin DB7 also uses these gusseted rear LCA's.

As Ron said you will definitely need to brace the bottom of the rear cage or you'll rip out of the car. I have seen a number of solutions but the Ron did it mounting to the chassis rails is by far the strongest and best method.

Here is a pic of what Lister did to strengthen the rear cage mounting.



I know that 2 of the 6.7L V12 XJS's twisted the drive shafts on the dyno with 550ft/lb, necessitating fabricating new chromoly drive shafts. May not be an issue on the road with less traction.
 
Reply
Old Sep 13, 2017 | 01:53 AM
  #75  
Jagboi64's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,251
Likes: 3,511
From: Calgary, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by warrjon

I know that 2 of the 6.7L V12 XJS's twisted the drive shafts on the dyno with 550ft/lb, necessitating fabricating new chromoly drive shafts. May not be an issue on the road with less traction.
Do you think there will be a problem with ~350hp and 450 ft-lbs? I'm putting a slightly warmed up XJR-6 engine mated to the standard IRS.
 
Reply
Old Sep 13, 2017 | 02:26 AM
  #76  
warrjon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,638
Likes: 2,583
From: Vic Australia
Default

Originally Posted by Jagboi64
Do you think there will be a problem with ~350hp and 450 ft-lbs? I'm putting a slightly warmed up XJR-6 engine mated to the standard IRS.
The drive shafts will ok on the road, although I would brace the bottom of the cage forward to the chassis rails to prevent the inevitable failure of the rear cage mounts with the increased power/torque.
 
Reply
Old Sep 13, 2017 | 07:44 PM
  #77  
89 Jacobra's Avatar
Veteran Member
5 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Liked
Loved
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,101
Likes: 1,440
From: Arkansas
Default

I'm really thankful to all who have alerted me to the issues of the rubber mounted suspension carriage. This is something I had not discovered about my Jag yet. I see the problem and have taken note of the several ways suggested, to reduce this problem. As I have stated before in some of my other posts, I expect to be 650+ hp and probably about 600+ torque, so these issues could definitely be in my future. So I once again say Thank You to all. 89 Jacobra
 
Reply
Old Sep 14, 2017 | 09:00 PM
  #78  
Ezrider's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 433
Likes: 182
From: Bismarck ND
Default

i look forward to seeing this in the car, i still don't think there is anyway its going to fit under a stock hood, still look forward to seeing it though. would not be engine choice but its his car.

the rear sub frame re-reinforcement info is great. its not something i was aware of and i have a roughly 400 hp sbc in my car. of course the mounts failed with the stock engine in my car and i replaced them recently. but that will go onto my list of things to do on my car.

as far as driveshaft, he is likely going to be needing a custom driveshaft anyway so the point is probably moot. plus the cummins is a low rpm/slow revving engine he probably wont be able to get it loaded up enough to make full power till he is up a couple gears from the bottom anyway.
 
Reply
Old Sep 15, 2017 | 01:21 AM
  #79  
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14,584
Likes: 10,779
From: France
Default

Originally Posted by Ezrider
as far as driveshaft, he is likely going to be needing a custom driveshaft anyway so the point is probably moot. plus the cummins is a low rpm/slow revving engine he probably wont be able to get it loaded up enough to make full power till he is up a couple gears from the bottom anyway.
The problem for the stock setup is the torque, rather than the BHP, of a low revving high torque output diesel. Think, as far as the drivetrain is concerned, of an essentially instant application of a huge twisting moment, rather than a gradual buildup of it. This I what the diff, the driveshafts and the propshaft (which on an standard XJS has a rubber flexible join hidden in the middle) may not be able to take. Essentially the takeoff from rest is the most dangerous time.
 
Reply
Old Sep 15, 2017 | 09:20 AM
  #80  
Ezrider's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 433
Likes: 182
From: Bismarck ND
Default

you would have to stand on the breaks or have a trans break to load that engine up for it to make power off the line. diesels need load to make power. they don't have snappy throttle response and instant power like a gas engine. unless you have a trailer hooked up turbo lag is probably going to be behind the acceleration till your well out of the hole. most likely he will need a new driveshaft to even get the rear end connected to the trans anyway though.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 PM.