Ptjs1,

Will try your suggestion.

After I completed putting it all back together...JUST FIRED IT UP AND IT TOOK LOTS OF REVS.

I DID NOT TAKE IT FOR A RIDE OR LET IT COME UP TO TEMP.

I will try to turn the ignition on/off and on again and see if it makes any difference.

Thanks

Softball60/Paul

 

Paul,

If you've just turned it off again after eventually starting it, don't bother with the multiple prime attempt just yet. Just start the car and drive it properly and get it fully warmed up before you do any more checks. If you keep just turning it off after starting it, you're going to keep having this problem until the car has been really fully warmed.

Cheers

Paul

 

Got It

Thanks

Softball60/Paul

 

ptj1,

Tried the prime and reprise ............NO DIFFERENCE.

Hopefully Grant is still following this thread to advise whether I should have reset timing even though it was within the sight glass.

Thanks

Softball60/Paul

 

Still here, just distracted a tad.

If that timing setting check has the widow showing the indentation, GOOD JOB, there is nothing more to set up.

I would ensure the plugs and sockets to the Crank, and Cam sensors, are clean, probably are, but checking is FREE.

Without startingan endless thread discussion:

I only use NGK spark plugs in ANY of my Jags. Some claim the AJ16 is not good with them, I did not find that, either in the 3.2 or thd R.

Only today, phone call from mate who has a 1971 Morris Mini. It wont start, was all he said (he in 74). I went there, looked at things, got spark etc etc. The plugs are less than 12 months old and Champion Brand. I had 4 spare NGK new ones with me, same as the XK and early V12 engines. Screwed them in, started right up. The Champions LOOKED spot on, and I would have not replaced them based on look alone. My too many years with engines, mainly Jag, is, "hard to start, but runs fine when its started", is nearly always spark plugs. I am mainly referring to Carby engines, but EFI is just a fuel delivery system at the end of the day,
My sons GM 3.8S/charged "thing" gets hard to start from time to time, he simply changes the sparkers, and goes on his way until next time. Never worked out why, I doubt we ever will.

ALSO

Back when we had the XJ12 PreHE in the fleet, spark plugs were HARD on that thing, and if it starting get hard to start, swap them out, and move on, cheap and simple repair.

For the sake of $30 or so, slip 6 new sparkers in, properly gapped, and see what changes, who knows.

 

Grant,

Thanks for the response and that you help us older folk. I’ll be 75 in Nov.

Anyway

Can you only retime with the engine not running
How and what do you use to clean the distributor as I want to pull it out and clean. Electronic cleaner and just spray the inside. Difficult to see what you are cleaning.

Thanks

Softball60/Paul

 

HA, 4 years ahead of me.

I have never cleaned the inside of that "distributor thing". I would only wipe it out carefully IF its grubby. Mine were internally clean.

The plugs and sockets, I use Lemon Juice, then rinse with WD40, or similar.

 

Is It conceivable as suggested by Doug that the temp sensor could be the culprit. I did flush the entire coolant system a week or so ago.

I have been reading up on this type of issue.




Softball60/Paul

 

The IATS can be a bit suspect on AJ16s. Its why they didn't like restarting after being run for just a few seconds. The sensor seems to get slightly confused on the signal it sends to the ecu.

Paul

 

I really meant it when I said to replace it no matter when it was done.
You were the one who mentioned the gunk at the strainer.
It doesn't take much to restrict the flow of fuel.
Even if everything looks good change it.
And flush the system.
Did you remove the injectors and test them for flow?
If nothing is helping, I would do a complete check of flow at each injector.

 

Equiprx,

It wasn’t necessarily gunk (maybe bad choice of words) Almost more like the plastic strainer webs were kind of melted together.

Light brown in color but no crud that you could wipe off!!. Very brittle!!

JUST OLD AGE......LIKE ME!!

Note to all:

When trying to start the rpms are registering on the Tachometer ~300-400rpms....Does this mean anything??

Softball60/Paul

 

Those screen get brittle and pieces could be everywhere unless you caught it in time.
Flush the entire system to be safe and it will show you if the pump, filter and injectors are working.

 

Paul,

That is an indication that the Crank Angle Sensor is OK

That Brown and brittle pump sock, is also normal, as said, and if it doe collapse, then the pump will suffer, as it is on the Suction side. If any gets through the pump, the main EFI filer will catch it. If the EFI filter gets clogged, also common with the crap fuel we are all forced to use, then the engine will not run.

Testing flow AT the engine is a good idea, BUT, it runs fine when its finally started, so I would not get too carried away with that at the moment.

X300 again, as that is what I had.

I spent time, a weekend, and unplugged EVERY sensor I could find, cleaned the sockets and plugs, replugged them all as I went. I looked and found a good number of earths, sorted them also. Replaced the Coolant Temp Sensor ($18), just because I know the V12 is a PITA with that item, retimed the Cam Sensor, as mentioned and discussed, replacd the Crank Sensor, fuel pump, etc etc (again because I always do that), and that was basically my Post Purchase Service, as I do to ALL the newbies to the fleet.
This X300 came from Interstate, so a 2000km drive home. and like yours, is was a longish cranker on that trip, Cold or Hot, but we got home. After my "fiddle" it was spot on, and still is today with the current owner (neighbour).

Sometimes, simply unplugging and replugging, reseats the terminals, and away you go.

 

Grant & All,

I ‘m going:
1. Pull the crank (New) and cam sensors and clean areas as much as practical and reset timing.
2. I have another set of coils that I know are good and replace.
3. Install new plugs.
4. Install new temp sensor.
5. Funny feeling about the cam sensor plug......Does’t feel right (No solid or clicking feel) when plugged into sensor.
6. If all the above fails to correct.......Purchase a cam sensor.....Probably used!!! New sensor $$$$$$$$$

After that??????

Thanks

Softball60/Paul

 

Latest Update 10/3

Waiting for some parts to possibly help with my hard start condition, I decided to do somethings........ Can’t sit idle!!!!!!!

Tried to start the car after setting for a couple of days.....No matter how much it cranked!!! NO START!!!

Pushed the car out of garage into drive.......Needed more room.

1. Decided to completely reset the timing Marks. Got the crank sensor to top dead center on the flywheel
2. Reset the cam sensor to exactly dead center of the small window within the site glass. Cleaned the cam sensor as much as possible.
3. Disconnected the ECM connector mounted in engine compartment on driver side bulkhead below ABS pump and completely cleaned.....I mean cleaned.
4. Installed the new temp sensor.
5. Reconnected up everything........and tried to fire it up!!!!!

Little bit of hesitation (Couple of revs) but it fired up and not 10-15 revs before starting.

Took it for a drive drove it hard...drove it easy and let it warm up.

Came back to the house, shut it off and tried to start....NO GO!!!
Tried again and it fired up after a couple of cranks but would not stay running!!

really upset and confused went in the house....came back 1/2 hour later.......It started but took the 10-15revs. Seemed funny that it turned over faster like it was advanced more so than before.

Went back after a while and it took 10-15 cranks and it fired up, so I am back to where I started with this condition. Bought a used distributor with the cam sensor on ebay.....It was cheaper than the several hundred dollars wanted for a new cam sensor.

It now starts up each time after multiple revs (10-15).

I have new plugs (not installed yet)
new coils on the way
new distributor on the way

It has to be the cam position??? That is out of whack!!

COMMENTS PLEASE......THIS IS DRIVING ME UP A WALL!!

Softball60/Paul

 

Paul,

BUGGA.

At least you have achieved something.

It has to be Injector pulse that is not happening as it should, and that is really the task of the Cam Sensor, hence the discussions about extended crank cycles every start mode, as the Control system works out where things are to make it go.

I have no other ideas at the moment. While waiting, fit the new spark plugs, and see if that changes anything, at least you are not "sitting idle" and getting annoyed. When doing that take note of any oil in the plug wells, not saying thats the issue, but it should be dry in there.

 

Following what Grant has suggested about the injectors not firing immediately, ask a friend to squirt some starting fluid into the intake while you crank, and see if she fires straight up, if so, you know for certain it is fuel.

 

Have you checked the fuel pressure at the fuel rail between the FPR and the Injectors?
A proper fuel pressure test should be with a gauge not a guess.
The other part of the test should be checking if the FPR holds pressure after shut down.
It sounds like most of your issues are after the car sits for a while.
On the 6.0 the FPR acts as a check valve, keeping fuel in the rail from getting siphoned back to the tank.
A positive result is NO or very little pressure drop for about two hours.

 

There's no valve or port on the AJ16 engine that will allow anyone to check the fuel pressure!

Best recommendation I can give you is to pull the little hose off of the fuel pressure regulator. I believe if you smell fuel, then it needs to be replaced.

 

We had ours make, but I think by now there are off the shelf versions.
It was a 'T' with male-female ends matching the fuel rail ends and a gauge on the other leg.
Tools like that are imperative for any Jaguar technician.
If you have any possible fuel delivery suspicions that is the first step.
That is the way these cars work.
If Jaguar installed a check valve in the line we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Anything else is just throwing parts and labor at the problem.