3 bolt vs. 4 bolt steering rack assembly question
#1
3 bolt vs. 4 bolt steering rack assembly question
Is there an easy way to determine what steering rack is in my car? I have a 1996 XJS-C with 4.0L inline 6 engine. I see there is a servo and non-servo model, as well as a 3 bolt and 4 bolt.
I believe the 4 bolt non-servo is the base unit. I make this assumption because it's the cheapest of the various replacement options. I think mine will be a base model, since it has no built in phone, seat heaters, etc. that I've sen on some other cars. But, I'd rather verify than guess...
Any help is appreciated.
I believe the 4 bolt non-servo is the base unit. I make this assumption because it's the cheapest of the various replacement options. I think mine will be a base model, since it has no built in phone, seat heaters, etc. that I've sen on some other cars. But, I'd rather verify than guess...
Any help is appreciated.
#2
Is there an easy way to determine what steering rack is in my car? I have a 1996 XJS-C with 4.0L inline 6 engine. I see there is a servo and non-servo model, as well as a 3 bolt and 4 bolt.
I believe the 4 bolt non-servo is the base unit. I make this assumption because it's the cheapest of the various replacement options. I think mine will be a base model, since it has no built in phone, seat heaters, etc. that I've sen on some other cars. But, I'd rather verify than guess...
Any help is appreciated.
I believe the 4 bolt non-servo is the base unit. I make this assumption because it's the cheapest of the various replacement options. I think mine will be a base model, since it has no built in phone, seat heaters, etc. that I've sen on some other cars. But, I'd rather verify than guess...
Any help is appreciated.
This might be of help
RackPinionHeads
#3
It seems odd that the only way to know what you have is to take it off the car and see what sized wrench fits the bolt (as described for tie rod ends). By '96, Jaguar had largely adopted the Ford QA program, so I'm hoping the car wasn't built based on what parts they had lying around... and could will-fit so they could ship another car...
I'll try to look at the rack and see what is meant by 3 and 4 bolt, servo and non-servo. I was just hoping someone had some idea of what to look for.
#4
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Anyhow....
I guessing that 'servo' means the electronic variable assist....which I though only applied to the X300-later sedans.
The XJS racks I'm familiar with all have 4 bolt holes....but only three are used. Which side gets the two bolts depends on LHD or RHD
Hopefully others will come along with more concrete info.
Cheers
DD
#5
Who are you ordering from that is asking this? Not that mine is the final word on anything but I don't recall those questions ever coming up relative to the XJS.
Anyhow....
I guessing that 'servo' means the electronic variable assist....which I though only applied to the X300-later sedans.
The XJS racks I'm familiar with all have 4 bolt holes....but only three are used. Which side gets the two bolts depends on LHD or RHD
Hopefully others will come along with more concrete info.
Cheers
DD
Anyhow....
I guessing that 'servo' means the electronic variable assist....which I though only applied to the X300-later sedans.
The XJS racks I'm familiar with all have 4 bolt holes....but only three are used. Which side gets the two bolts depends on LHD or RHD
Hopefully others will come along with more concrete info.
Cheers
DD
FYI, my car is a 96 XJS-C with 4.0 liter engine.
While I have your "eye", I'm wondering if you can offer advice on the overall scope of this job? My plan was to definitely replace the rack, rack bushings (upgrade to polyurethane), tie rod ends (Vee suggested Moog is fine for tie rod ends). Everything else, like ball joints, control arm bushings, sub-frame bushings, etc. I was hoping to replace as needed.
Others have suggested that I really should replace the upper control arm bushings (jagbits offers a set of 4 rubber bushings for $105) and all 4 ball joints (Lemfoerder, so another $250). Still others say replace any/all front end bushings (sub-frame, lower control arms, radius rod, sway bar ends, etc) now vs. later. I've consulted with a local import shop here that owns a PDU device, so they know a bit about Jaguar cars. The service writer says I should do the rack, poly rack bushings and wait on anything else to verify that it needs replacing. I'm just really confused at the moment, trying to figure out what I need to buy and what work I need to plan for to make the most of this (hopefully) one-time endeavor.
Do you have any thoughts? It seemed to handle fine, but I mainly drove it home via freeway, straight line at 70-75 mph. There was a wobble, but that could be due to worn/dry rotted tires and/or a possible bad driver side rear wheel bearing (I had a safety inspection done and the mechanic showed me that there was fairly significant top to bottom wobble on the rear drivers side wheel - maybe 1/4 inch of play?). I really started this project to fix a PS fluid leak that was also uncovered by the safety inspection.
I'm not entirely averse to doing it all, just trying to manage the spend and get her on the road. If you can offer up your suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I know you're a well respected expert here.
One last thing - does the 1994 XJS 6.0L steering rack "how-to sticky" apply to my car? No one seems to know. I've bought the OTC ball joint and bushing removal tools so I'm properly armed if it does...
Thanks, Dave
#6
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I understand, it's just that, as far as I know, those choices/questions ---presumably from a vendor webpage?--- don't apply to an XJS. But I'm not too familiar with the late model cars so I could be all wet.
I'd call Coventry West. They're big in the Jaguar rebuilding world. I think they supply most of the other vendors with p/s racks, actually. If there are funny choices and questions, they'd be able to explain them.
While I have your "eye", I'm wondering if you can offer advice on the overall scope of this job? My plan was to definitely replace the rack, rack bushings (upgrade to polyurethane), tie rod ends (Vee suggested Moog is fine for tie rod ends). Everything else, like ball joints, control arm bushings, sub-frame bushings, etc. I was hoping to replace as needed.
Others have suggested that I really should replace the upper control arm bushings (jagbits offers a set of 4 rubber bushings for $105) and all 4 ball joints (Lemfoerder, so another $250). Still others say replace any/all front end bushings (sub-frame, lower control arms, radius rod, sway bar ends, etc) now vs. later. I've consulted with a local import shop here that owns a PDU device, so they know a bit about Jaguar cars. The service writer says I should do the rack, poly rack bushings and wait on anything else to verify that it needs replacing. I'm just really confused at the moment, trying to figure out what I need to buy and what work I need to plan for to make the most of this (hopefully) one-time endeavor.
Do you have any thoughts? It seemed to handle fine, but I mainly drove it home via freeway, straight line at 70-75 mph. There was a wobble, but that could be due to worn/dry rotted tires and/or a possible bad driver side rear wheel bearing (I had a safety inspection done and the mechanic showed me that there was fairly significant top to bottom wobble on the rear drivers side wheel - maybe 1/4 inch of play?). I really started this project to fix a PS fluid leak that was also uncovered by the safety inspection.
I'm not entirely averse to doing it all, just trying to manage the spend and get her on the road. If you can offer up your suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I know you're a well respected expert here.
Others have suggested that I really should replace the upper control arm bushings (jagbits offers a set of 4 rubber bushings for $105) and all 4 ball joints (Lemfoerder, so another $250). Still others say replace any/all front end bushings (sub-frame, lower control arms, radius rod, sway bar ends, etc) now vs. later. I've consulted with a local import shop here that owns a PDU device, so they know a bit about Jaguar cars. The service writer says I should do the rack, poly rack bushings and wait on anything else to verify that it needs replacing. I'm just really confused at the moment, trying to figure out what I need to buy and what work I need to plan for to make the most of this (hopefully) one-time endeavor.
Do you have any thoughts? It seemed to handle fine, but I mainly drove it home via freeway, straight line at 70-75 mph. There was a wobble, but that could be due to worn/dry rotted tires and/or a possible bad driver side rear wheel bearing (I had a safety inspection done and the mechanic showed me that there was fairly significant top to bottom wobble on the rear drivers side wheel - maybe 1/4 inch of play?). I really started this project to fix a PS fluid leak that was also uncovered by the safety inspection.
I'm not entirely averse to doing it all, just trying to manage the spend and get her on the road. If you can offer up your suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I know you're a well respected expert here.
How many miles on the car?
If high miles there's a lot to be said for 'do it all, do it once, do it right'. It's quite possible that most or all of the things you mentioned are worn out.
But you can be selective and break the jobs down . It makes sense to replace tie rods when replacing the rack, as they have to come off anyway. Upper ball joints and upper arm bushings go well together, as do lower ball joints and lower arm bushings.
Front suspension repair on your Jag is no more difficult than any other car, with the possible exception of lower control arm bushings. Those can be a stinker. Balljoints are easier than most, actually, as are the upper control arm bushings.
Replacing the lower control arm bushings means removing the springs and there is a very real safety element involved here. Perfectly manageable, but still, you gotta be careful. There's are various tools/methods to choose from.
If this is your first time doing this type of work it might be a good idea to have an experienced helper standing by.
Lemforder is a good choice, as is Moog. Beware of bargain priced control arm bushings. Some wear out very quickly.
Sounds like you need rear hub berings for that wobbly wheel
One last thing - does the 1994 XJS 6.0L steering rack "how-to sticky" apply to my car? No one seems to know. I've bought the OTC ball joint and bushing removal tools so I'm properly armed if it does...
Thanks, Dave
Thanks, Dave
Cheers
DD
Last edited by Doug; 05-24-2016 at 09:32 AM. Reason: sp
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Greg in France (05-24-2016)
#7
I understand, it's just that, as far as I know, those choices/questions ---presumably from a vendor webpage?--- don't apply to an XJS. But I'm not too familiar with the late model cars so I could be all wet.
I'd call Coventry West. They're big in the Jaguar rebuilding world. I think they supply most of the other vendors with p/s racks, actually. If there are funny choices and questions, they'd be able to explain them.
On my first cup of coffee so pardon the disjointed reply
How many miles on the car?
If high miles there's a lot to be said for 'do it all, do it once, do it right'. It's quite possible that most or all of the things you mentioned are worn out.
But you can be selective and break the jobs down . It makes sense to replace tie rods when replacing the rack, as they have to come off anyway. Upper ball joints and upper arm bushings go well together, as do lower ball joints and lower arm bushings.
Front suspension repair on your Jag is no more difficult than any other car, with the possible exception of lower control arm bushings. Those can be a stinker. Ball joints are easier than most, actually, as are the upper control arm bushings.
Replacing the lower control arm bushings means removing the springs and there is a very real safety element involved here. Perfectly manageable, but still, you gotta be careful. There's are various tools/methods to choose from.
If this is your first time doing this type of work it might be a good idea to have an experienced helper standing by.
Lemforder is a good choice, as is Moog. Beware of bargain priced control arm bushings. Some wear out very quickly.
Sounds like you need rear hub berings for that wobbly wheel
From quick perusal its look appropriate, yes. All XJSs are fundamentally the same in that regard
Cheers
DD
I'd call Coventry West. They're big in the Jaguar rebuilding world. I think they supply most of the other vendors with p/s racks, actually. If there are funny choices and questions, they'd be able to explain them.
On my first cup of coffee so pardon the disjointed reply
How many miles on the car?
If high miles there's a lot to be said for 'do it all, do it once, do it right'. It's quite possible that most or all of the things you mentioned are worn out.
But you can be selective and break the jobs down . It makes sense to replace tie rods when replacing the rack, as they have to come off anyway. Upper ball joints and upper arm bushings go well together, as do lower ball joints and lower arm bushings.
Front suspension repair on your Jag is no more difficult than any other car, with the possible exception of lower control arm bushings. Those can be a stinker. Ball joints are easier than most, actually, as are the upper control arm bushings.
Replacing the lower control arm bushings means removing the springs and there is a very real safety element involved here. Perfectly manageable, but still, you gotta be careful. There's are various tools/methods to choose from.
If this is your first time doing this type of work it might be a good idea to have an experienced helper standing by.
Lemforder is a good choice, as is Moog. Beware of bargain priced control arm bushings. Some wear out very quickly.
Sounds like you need rear hub berings for that wobbly wheel
From quick perusal its look appropriate, yes. All XJSs are fundamentally the same in that regard
Cheers
DD
The car just turned 97K miles. I don't have the wherewithal to compress the front springs, so I guess lower control arm bushings are off the table unless I pay the shop to them. If you think I should do upper control arm bushings, upper and lower ball joints, I will, regardless of what the shop tells me. Not that I distrust them, but they're in business to make money, and I don't want to do this job twice...
Thanks also for the suggestion re: hub assembly vs. wheel bearing. The service guy at Top Gear in Minneapolis said in 20+ years of servicing Jaguars, he's only done a few rear wheel bearings. He quoted me $627 to replace one - that would be my single largest expense so far. I'm really hoping replacing a wheel hub assembly - which a quick parts search suggests can be had for as little as $3 - will cost much less to repair. If I can do that myself, I'm a VERY happy camper. I need my repair manual delivered - like yesterday!
I'm dying to drive my car. I want it safe and I want it right, but I don't want it in my garage 24/7. Hopefully I can do the work next week and be on the road by the weekend. Fingers crossed!
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#8
The Sportpack part number is the same between 4.0 and 6.0 cars, different on the regular rack. I assume then they are all physically interchangable.
Jaguar Heritage parts website: Steering Rack and Pinion-4.0/6.0 Litre - Parts For XJS from (V)179737 to (V)226645 | Jaguar Classic Parts UK
#9
Do you have any thoughts? It seemed to handle fine, but I mainly drove it home via freeway, straight line at 70-75 mph. There was a wobble, but that could be due to worn/dry rotted tires and/or a possible bad driver side rear wheel bearing (I had a safety inspection done and the mechanic showed me that there was fairly significant top to bottom wobble on the rear drivers side wheel - maybe 1/4 inch of play?). I really started this project to fix a PS fluid leak that was also uncovered by the safety inspection.
Wobble could be tires, but if there is that much play in the rear wheel bearing I would start with that and then see how it drives.
#10
Is it the rack that is actually leaking? There is a small cooler on the front subframe and the hoses which go to that leaked on mine, as well as at the back of the pump. They rubber goes hard with time and heat, and the return line hoses are just held with hoseclamps. I'd start by replacing all the hoses and get the clamps tight and go from there and see if you have a further leak. Pressure wash everything to get all the oil and dirt off and then you see of there is a fresh leak
Wobble could be tires, but if there is that much play in the rear wheel bearing I would start with that and then see how it drives.
Wobble could be tires, but if there is that much play in the rear wheel bearing I would start with that and then see how it drives.
That said, my steering rack is definitely toast. The dust boot on the driver side is torn, and when the car was raised on a lift, PS fluid actually poured out of it. The fluid leaked from the rack and pooled in the boot. I guess once the rack leaks, it's done..
I'm hoping the wheel hub assembly fixes the rear drivers side wheel issue. At $625 to replace 1 rear wheel bearing, I'd really like to dodge that bullet.
I'll be in pretty deep with the new steering rack, tie rod ends, poly rack bushings, upper control arm bushings, ball joints and new tires. I also plan to have the shop fix a high idle with their PDU, flush/fill trans and brake fluids, and will need to flush the PS fluid after I install the new steering rack. New trans and PS fluid filters as well. I knew going in that the car needed maintenance - nothing above is out of the ordinary for an XJS with 97K on the clock.
I'll still need to sort out the e brake and power top, neither of which are functional at present. The good news is I can't even recall the last time I needed an e brake, and raising or dropping the top manually is simple. If I put the boot cover on, I'd need to get out anyway, so the power top is a low priority.
I really hope that once the above repairs are done, I'll be on the road. Even with the current maladies, it's a pleasure to drive; I'm eager to see how it really drives once it's fixed.
Last edited by davemack; 05-24-2016 at 08:56 PM.
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Greg in France (05-26-2016)
#11
Is the $625 to rebuild the rear hub? It can be taken apart and new bearings pressed in, then you have to reshim, but that's no different than any Jaguar rear hub that uses that design of IRS. It's a whole bunch of labour, so I could see that adding up to $625.
If the rack is toast, just send it to Coventry West and get it rebuilt or get an exchange. There should be a small metal tag on it that says what part number it is and kind. A 96 should be made by ZF.
If the rack is toast, just send it to Coventry West and get it rebuilt or get an exchange. There should be a small metal tag on it that says what part number it is and kind. A 96 should be made by ZF.
#12
Is the $625 to rebuild the rear hub? It can be taken apart and new bearings pressed in, then you have to reshim, but that's no different than any Jaguar rear hub that uses that design of IRS. It's a whole bunch of labour, so I could see that adding up to $625.
If the rack is toast, just send it to Coventry West and get it rebuilt or get an exchange. There should be a small metal tag on it that says what part number it is and kind. A 96 should be made by ZF.
If the rack is toast, just send it to Coventry West and get it rebuilt or get an exchange. There should be a small metal tag on it that says what part number it is and kind. A 96 should be made by ZF.
Oddly, Coventry West doesn't have any mention of steering racks on their web site. I did buy my Lemforder ball joints from them, though. I bought the rack from The Auto Parts Shop - they had 1 part, guaranteed it will fit, charged $201 for the rack and inner tie rods, $65 for a core charge and $22 for 3-5 day shipping. I was impressed that they didn't have several options (servo, non-servo, 3 bolt, 4 bolt, etc) and the price could not be beat. I believe it's a Cardone with a 2 year warranty.
I bought the Moog tie rod ends from Rock Auto, the rack bushings from Terry's Jaguar, the upper control arm bushings from Jag Bits, the trunk struts from English Auto, etc. To get what I wanted, I had to buy from 20 different sites. But, I wound up with exactly what I wanted... just wish someone like CW carried it all!
Now, I'm waiting for everything to be delivered so I can begin. At this point, I think I'll do the front end work, drive the car to Firestone for the new tires and alignment, then take the car in to Top Gear Auto for fluid flushes/fills and PDU reprogramming. Since they can't see me till after Memorial day, I just said "screw it" and bought a new front end vs. having them tell me exactly what I need and what can wait. I have no doubt that Top Gear is an excellent service provider - they're swamped with business and can't really offer a specific appointment until August. Time to expand!
Last edited by davemack; 05-25-2016 at 06:30 PM.
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