XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

Convertible quarter windows inop

 
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Convertible quarter windows inop

I recently purchased a 1992 XJS V-12 Convertible and the quarter windows refuse to work. I have checked all the relays, the thermal breakers and replaced the hood control module. Still nothing. When I bought the car they were able to get the windows up and down by jumping them. I could simply install window switches but I’d rather have the system work as designed. I have checked the 30 amp fuse also. Holding the switch until the motor stops doesn’t help. The hood does go up and down as it is supposed to. Any help would be much appreciated.
 

Last edited by Tibbetts; 05-18-2019 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Add information
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:31 AM
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Bumped it for ya.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:53 AM
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How did you check the relays? I have put in functioning ( but used) relays that would click over when tested, but couldn't carry enough current for the window motor to operate. If the relays are original, replace then with 40 amp ( standard auto relays are 30 amp).
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:34 PM
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For the quarter rear windows to function (in a convertible), the parking brake is the key. When lowering the top, the parking brake has to be engaged. When raising the top back in place, the parking brake has to be engaged. The windows will not function without the parking brake set. I owned a 94 XJS convertible. Experienced the same issue.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:32 PM
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Tibbetts,

As you say that the hood is operating correctly, then the problem doesn't lie with the handbrake switch. The problem must lie in the relays, window motors, wiring to the motors or (unlikely) the hood ecu.

Are you checking the relays by reading voltage output when the hoos is being lowered? (Easier to test on the down cycle because of the time delay from the ecu on the Up cycle.) If not, then backprobe the output wire from the relay when the hood down switch is pressed. If you're reading voltage at that time, the problem must lie in the wiring to the motors or the motors themselves. You mentioned that the motors can be powered directly so that points to the wiring, if you've tested the relays correctly?

So, if you've got output voltage on the relays when the switch is pressed, remove the 1/4 trim panels and see if you're then getting voltage at the motor. If none there, it confirms the wiring problem.

Good luck

Paul
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:19 PM
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The parking brake has been set. The hood goes up and down but no window movement. If the hood works, I think that means that the parking brake circuit it functioning. Am I not right?
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:31 PM
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I did some relay testing with a volt/ohm meter although I’m not convinced that my testing was conclusive. They did all click and each seemed to function properly when used in the hood up and down positions. It does seem like a relay related problem but it seems unlikely for all four window relays to fail.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:33 PM
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This does sound to me like a relay related problem. I will get 6 new relays in 40amp if I can find them. I know Moss Motors stock the originals.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tibbetts View Post
The parking brake has been set. The hood goes up and down but no window movement. If the hood works, I think that means that the parking brake circuit it functioning. Am I not right?
Yes, you are correct. I would follow Paul's suggestion above to check for voltage at the relays.

If the top/windows have not be used often, it has been reported that the motors can get 'stuck' and there isn't enough current to get them going. However, when I've experienced that, it was one motor at a time. So I would focus making sure current is reaching the motors first.

Good luck
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:37 PM
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Thank you so much, Paul. I have tested the relays to the best of my limited abilities. This seems like a relay related problem since the hood operates normally. Is there more electrical load on the window relays than the hood motor? It may be easiest to eliminate one possibility by replacing all relays. Hopefully before this drives me nuts.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tibbetts View Post
Thank you so much, Paul. I have tested the relays to the best of my limited abilities. This seems like a relay related problem since the hood operates normally. Is there more electrical load on the window relays than the hood motor? It may be easiest to eliminate one possibility by replacing all relays. Hopefully before this drives me nuts.
For these cars, I wouldn't recommend throwing parts at a problem as that can get a bit pricey. If you want the most straightforward step, have you tried swapping the window up relays with window down relays and cleaned the contacts? It's highly unlikely you have four failed relays.

Next, I would remove one of your side trim panels and see if you are getting voltage at the motor. If you are, and you have a safe way of measuring current/amps I would then test that and see how much current is passing through the relay.

When I had a inoperable window, believe it or not, the fix was to tap on the motor while voltage was going to it. Viola! has worked fine every since. I also recall someone having those windows function once the side trim was removed and the weatherstrip was no longer putting pressure on the window.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tibbetts View Post
This does sound to me like a relay related problem. I will get 6 new relays in 40amp if I can find them. I know Moss Motors stock the originals.
Digikey is a good place for electronic parts. This one should work: https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...2161-ND/646987
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tibbetts View Post
. This seems like a relay related problem since the hood operates normally. Is there more electrical load on the window relays than the hood motor?
The way the system is wired, going up, the current grounds through the down relay, and going down it grounds through the up relay. It grounds through the normally closed contact, and I have seen many relays that are dual rated: 30A for the normally open and 20A for the normally closed contacts. It grounds through the lower rated contacts and over time they burn and pit and can't conduct as much power as they should. I don't believe the hood circuit grounds through relays, but it's been a while since I looked at the circuit.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:42 PM
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Thanks for your insight. I am digesting all the inputs. Everything points to faulty relays. What would be the reason that all relays seem to work on the hood motor but not on the windows?
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:06 PM
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I just ordered 6. This should eliminate the possibility of bad relays. The 40 amp. should be an improvement. Thank you so much for your help.
 
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:34 AM
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Mine only work with a tap on the motors every now and then....They all seem to go down but when asked to go up, then the problem arises.
 
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:26 PM
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Thanks. When jumped, both windows go up and down smoothly. I am going to try replacing the relays.
 
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:42 PM
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Thanks again for your input. I ordered six new 40 amp relays and replaced the originals. No change. The hood goes up and down but no window movement either way. I have already replaced the hood control module with no results. I’m baffled.
 
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:47 PM
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Thank you Paul,
i have just replaced all six relays with no results. Top goes up and down but still no movement of the windows. They both worked when I bought the car but they had to be jumped. Unfortunately I didn’t see how they did it but I know the motors and regulators work properly. I’m stumped. I’d like to try getting the, to work but don’t know which two points to jump. Any help will be appreciated.
thanks,
Tibbetts
 
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:46 PM
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Attached is the circuit diagram for the 1992 convertible top. Since the top goes up and down, we know the switches are good. The power coming in through the thermal breakers is not fused. I would start by putting a probe into the relay socket on the black wire and then to a good ground on the body and make sure you have continuity. If that's good, then make a small jumper wire and bridge the relay socket terminals. For example, to make the right window go down you would join where the 30 and 87 pins of the relay go in, which is the green/brown wire and the green/red wire
 
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92 XJS electrical.pdf (525.6 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by Jagboi64; 05-26-2019 at 10:50 PM.

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