seems this theory has been around for some time , water injection.

but never injected into the combustion chamber, along with fuel injection!



article i have studied from about 8/10 yrs ago.

and FORD of Germany has jumped on board, so must be a viable idea!

pic old ,

 

Water injection to minimise detonation is well documented; I use it myself in a turbo 4 cylinder.
If i'm reading it correctly that page is talking about direct injection of water into the combustion chamber, as happens with petrol/diesel in modern engines.
I've no idea why you'd want to do that & think after that we're into the realms of pseudo science - along with the same old story of increasing fuel economy/ sticking it to the oil companies etc.

 

BMW has it in the current M4 CLS or how ever they call the sportiest modell

 

I messed with the idea decades ago. "Messed in its truest sense. The device hangs on my shop wall. A mason jar with two pipes soldered into the lid. One to open air, the other to manifold. It did "inject". But the timing was backwards. Lots at idle none at WOT!!


Next phase, A windshield washer pump triggered by a micro switch at the throttle lever on the carb. Never got that quite right. As I feared, too much and hydraulic lock the engine with dire consequences.


In my college years I worked with a serious auto DIY guy. He had a nice 41 Ford convertible. Propelled by a hot flat head. Lottsa compression. He devised a "true "injector" mechanism and a mix of water and ethanol to suppress detonation. But, he had a rambunctious GF. She swapped cars for a while for an unknown reason. She out gas in the tank, but alas, nothing in the injector. Blew a few pistons. Big feet, I guess.


He kept her. Why, I dunno. Ford gone. Got a 46 Plymouth????


Carl

 

i think most here have missed the point of the article!

simply put , with the use of steam(Daim) to push the pistons instead of fuel it just may be possible to increase power as much as 500%.

he is using the water for the steam, the combustion of fuel is to boil the water into
steam! expanding the pressure 1500 times slowly and piston pressure lasts way beyond petrol pressure in crank angle degrees! =read torque.

read it and think about it.

as far as water injection into the inlet manifold , i was doing that in 1962, so wasnt OLDSMOBILE, it helped some, but saved engines a lot.

my Mazda Rotary , made 100whp more with manifold water /alky injection.

from 420whp petrol, to 510whp with water /alky.

but direct water injection could make 1000whp, if the internals can handle it!

RON

 

Back to the almighty steam engine....lol

 

Great- that except that this defies the laws of physics. It takes a huge amount of energy to turn water into steam. Can't boil water and push pistons at the same time with the same amount of fuel.

This concept has been around for at least 75 years, nothing new.

 

There are a few issues I see in this setup idea...

Steam replaces air as a gas. So if you have your normal fuel and air in the engine before ignition or even upon ignition, and inject hot water into the cylinder, you may extinguish the flame from the spark. At the same time, should any steam actually be formed, it would force unburnt fuel away from possible ignition areas. Resulting in no ignition. So it would cause a reduction in power...

The idea of H2O turning into H2 and O under pressure doesn't actually work. No matter how much heat and pressure you put into this, H2O stays H2O. Either in vapor form or, when hot enough, in plasma form. The only way to separate H2 from O is either via electrolysis (or how ever you spell that - it is just 1.13 am here as I am writing this) or giving it a different material it can react with... And hydrocarbons (aka fuel) isn't that reactive to H2O...

I think still, the best way for a steam engine to work properly and efficiently is to have an external steam generator... But this is going too OT. 'Tis is the XJ-S I6/V12 forum... Not 'steam my Jag' or so

 

think a little deeper, Wiki,, superheated steam, or dry steam!

saturated steam can be seen, but superheated steam is invisible to the human eye!

also very dangerous.

good thing we can not seperate H20, two H, 1 O

the earth is made up of 2/3rds water , could make another Big Bang thing! spooky thought.

 

No need to tell me about steam there buddy! Compound steam engines, steam turbines, steam generators, wet steam, dry steam, ... All my sad life and luckily partly something I now deal with in my new job

H2O is easily split. You can do it at home. Heck, you have a 12V DC battery in your car... You can do it with that!

Big bang is rather not the issue, more so fission... i.e. what the sun does with it's H accumulation, turning it into He. Though fission is the future... The first reactors have managed to sustain a constant H fission... Combine that with a possible new developement in nuclear technology, tnurning He into H and you have a never ending power supply formthis planet... H+H=He. He/2=H. Oh, and use it to heat water... So back to steam

 

thats that HHO thing?

all over the you tube, i know guy in FL USA thats playing with it for a VW Golf.

 

Another bad physics example. Energy out is less than energy in.

 

OK u tube ,scuderi water injection,, seems that Ferrari has been experimenting with it for some time.

they have a completely different method.

while your in u tube , check, Banks water injection video, very interesting.

 

Absolutely. Those who claim their cars run more efficiently are just driving more laid back as compared to before.

It costs more electricity to separate the molecules of H2O than the exothermal energy it produces when the hydrogen oxidates to H2O.

 

As I understand it, the systems offered by manufacturers as for example SAAB and BMW simply injects water to cool the internals of the engine. Better cooling allows them to increase boost (or CR) a bit, and then they can have more power.
Consumption is not influenced by this, it's just a way of pushing a bit more power out of an engine.

 

Correct, or run a little more ignition advance. The water acts to delay/avoid detonation.

Squirting water on it's own does nothing.

 

It also keeps the piston heads/crowns clean.

 

driving along the hyway, the engine produces more power, so what do you do?

let up on the gas pedal a bit,to maintain the same speed!

better MPG, but the most important, is much lower NOX and emissions. could get rid of all the power reducing emission crap.

try it at your next MOT, or what ever it may be called where you live!

 

why would BMW, Ford, Saab be doing R&D if it did not have any use?

comes to mind, that F1 GP turbo era 1987, banned any type of auxialury injection, mainly any Water injection?

 

A mechanic friend hooked this up on my 429 PI,Mercury Cyclone Spoiler, it had a container with an aluminum coil tube, fill the container with ice around the coil to cool the water before spraying into carb, it was BS and went into the trash.