My winter project involves doing various things that will be much much easier with the V12 completly out (hoisted above) of the engine bay.

Short of renting/buying something made specifically for this task, I'm trying to think of how to do it...safely...yet with a minimal cash outlay.

I know one can buy manual or automatic winches that will support the weight, and I've got access to all the crossbeams in my garage in order to support the winch across several crossbeams. But having no experience in this, I would like to hear any advice from those that have done it this way.

In photos I've seen the engine separated from the transmission, as well as the engine and transmission still attached. I would think it would be easier to unattach the transmission...is that the recommended procedure?

What difficultities am I missing?

Thanks,

John
1987 XJ-S V12
63,000 miles

 

A V12 with the trans attached is one mighty long unit. This adds to the difficultly and hazard of removal. My vote would be to separate the two....allowing the engine to come (almost) straight up and out.

Cheers
DD

 

I'm with Doug on this one. The V-12 weighs something like 700-800 lbs and that is really heavy for a hoist. I haven't pulled the Jaguar engine (yet) but I've done a few different types before. Here are some random thoughts....

Most of the "cherry picker" engine hoists are supposedly "1-ton" but while the hydraulics might lift that the actual boom will often bend when fully extended even on lesser engines. Keeping the transmission on there will only exacerbate that issue.

As far as the beams in your garage go - if they are 2x4 trusses I would suggest caution when using them to lift that much weight. If they're real beams made of large size wood or steel, never mind.

Chain hoists work great. They're simple to attach as long as you have something strong enough to attach them to. The easiest way is to chain it up to the beam. Another idea that works pretty well is to build a rolling frame to attach them to. A bit harder, but worth thinking about.

To remove the transmission you'll need to raise the car, disconnect the trans, then lower the transmission down and roll it out. It is possible with a full size trolley jack, I highly recommend a transmission jack.

If you do use a hoist that isn't on rollers you'll need to be able to roll the car out from underneath the engine. If you have it up on stands to remove the transmission you'll want to drop it back down to pull the engine.

Don't leave the engine hanging from the hoist. I'm not certain about the Jag engine but on most of the engines I've pulled the attachment points for the chain aren't especially strong - they tend to bend a bit. The hook eyes on the V-12 do look pretty hefty but I'd still recommend putting the engine down.

What I don't know is whether it is tough to find an engine stand that will support it. I'd guess the bolt pattern on the back is oddball - just a SWAG. Be careful about setting it on the bottom - that'll destroy oil pans and such on many engines.

I'll be curious to hear what you wind up doing and how it goes.

 

Is it essential that the transmission come out?

My problem is going to be jacking up the entire car high enough the get it out. Well, that isn't in itself a problem, but it's something else to buy...four jackstands tall enough to do the job. Sometimes I just want to excavate a big hole in my garage floor so I can just roll the car over it :-)

Is it an issue with having to move the engine forward to disengage it from the tranny? Would I have enough clearance to do so if I removed the radiator? I've put electric fans in, so the stock fan is long gone (i.e., it's not there to get in the way anymore).

The beam I have in mind to hold the hoist is three 2x12's (it's a 2-story, thus the hefty beams) that are bolted together as a continuous unit. In the photo you can see a hole I drilled for a previous lifting experiment. Any expertise I have is in electronics, not mechanical engineering, so I have no clue if it will hold the engine or not.

My thought on an engine stand was just to lower it onto 3 blocks of cut-down 6x6's....railroad cross-ties or the like. One each under the engine mount brackets, and one centered as far back as I could find that avoids putting weight on the oil pan or other fragile things. I could just work on it in place and then hoist it back up and roll the car under it when the time comes.

Wow I make this sound simple don't I :-)

Thanks!

John
1987 XJ-S V12
63,000 miles

 

Jack, the car, off the V12. When I removed my V12, the exhaust manifolds hit the frame rail and I was not able to get it out the top. So I actually dropped the front sub frame with the eninge, steering rack, wheels and all still in place. This allowed me to put a movers dolly under the the transmission and roll it all around and out of the way. I actually used the cherry picker hoist to lift the nose of the car away from the engine. Try it... you will be amazed how easy it is. I did remove my hood and radiator first. Use the 2x12's with a hoist to lift the nose of the car. The car will simply roll up on the rear wheel's axis and you can roll the engine out. Turn the wheels and you can get it anywhere you want it to go. If I did it with a cherry picker screwed into just one of the cross brace bolt holes you can do it with the beam for sure. Once the subframe and engine assembly are separated form the body repairs and service to both are much easier. it's safer this way too. No jackstands when the heavy moving is gong down and you'll spend much less time under the car.


If you do it this way you'll have it out in 2 hours and cost about 60$ for a straps and gantry pulley and movers dolly. This way there are no transmission bolts, flexplate bolts, fluid lines to disconnect, just doing that will take a hour alone. No power steering hoses to disconnect, no fluid to leak on you or to clean up. You don't even have to drain the motor oil. Just drain the coolant. Easy and safe.


http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-c...ist-69338.html Get a 20% off coupon and you be able to do this for less money and with a greater margin of safety. Always use the jack and jack stands when under a vehicle. You can hook the car body up to the hoist while you're under it disconnecting the trans mount for even more safety.

 

I think that this is being made to sound a little more difficult than it is. Providing you have a concrete floor and a decent lifting mechanism, this is what I did without too much trouble. I used an engine crane.
Here is what you do:

1. remove front shocks and brake flexibles and the battery!
2. remove all the rad stack and the bonnet and the heater hoses, unplug the engine looms at the firewall end and the loom at the front RHS from the power pack thingy
3. raise the car a bit so you can get to the underside, but support the subframe, as you are going to undo it.
4. also support the engine across the gutters with a beam using the rear lifting eyes and chains
5. undo the exhaust from the downpipes
6. undo the front engine mounting bush to engine bracket nut (one each side). Quite hard to get to, you need a short ratchet spanner to turn them as the nut on the top of the mounting bush that pokes through the engine bracket is shrouded by the bracket. It is either 1/2 AF or 9/16 AF from memory
7. undo each side the huge "six shot" bush bolts at front of the subframe
8. undo the V mount nuts at the rear of the subframe
9. undo the steering rack from the column by undoing the splined connector pinch bolt, undo the power steering hoses from the pump
10. undo the engine/subframe/chassis earth strap from the LHS of the engine and lower chassis rail
11. raise car a bit more and the subframe should stay on its supports as you raise the car. You can wheel the front subframe out of the way. The engine is now supported by the gearbox tailshaft mount and the lifting beam across the rearmost lifting eyes
12. support the engine from underneath and attach your engine crane beam-based lifting device to all four of the engine lifting eyes, use also a load levellling device between the two so you can tilt the engine/gearbox combo as you lift it.
13. undo the fiendishly complex gearbox mounting, remember that the plate under the gearbox tailshaft is taking the weight via a spring, so as you undo it all, the plate needs to be supported or it will bong off and injure you
14. undo the gear selector cable from the gearbox, easier with the tail pointing downwards
15. unplug the wire to the speedo transducer on the gearbox LHS and the propshaft, undo the fuel lines from the regulators
16. tilt the engine/gearbox upwards at the front and pull it out

I may have missed out the odd bit, but you get the idea!

As to removing the engine from beneath the car still attached to the subframe, this is possible on the saloons (eg series 3 XJ12, X300 etc) but I did not think it is possible on an XJS unless the exhaust manifolds and inlet manifolds are removed first. Always open to correction, obviously, (I am married!) but would be very interested to hear more detail about how ICS did it on an XJS.

Greg

 

Guys, thanks for all the great input!

I've had all my exhaust manifolds out before, and while that was no fun, it's looking like lesser fun to get to the bolts that hold the transmission to the engine, so I'm leaning towards pulling the intake and exhaust manifolds and lifting the front of the car off the front subframe assembly.

If I bring the engine out the top, my only option to lower it is to roll the car backwards, which will immediately put it onto my downward-sloping driverway. I then have to figure out how to stop it, then cover it and let it sit in the driverway (where working on it this time of year in the US will be NO fun), then work out how to get it back inside the garage to join everything up again. If I can just roll the engine/subframe from under the car then everything stays in the garage, which is good.

I just conducted an inspection under the RH side of the car to see where the body attaches to the subframe. Obviously the shocks have to be undone. I've attached some pictures showing what bolt I think need to be undone to separate the subframe from the body (the ones circled in red). Here I'm not discussing what needs to be undone in the engine compartment, just the body-subframe connections.

Did I miss any? Probably...:-)

Concerning supporting the transmission (is the idea to undo where it attaches to the drive shaft?) it seems that rigging a support with a caster wheel on it might work.

Thanks!

John
1987 XJ-S V12

 

The anti-roll bar semi-circular straps and bolts you circle in the second photo do not have to be undone from the chassis rail. Just undo the vertical link you will see at the wheel/suspension end each side that is connected to the end of the anti-roll bar (sway bar).

 

Greg is correct undo the swaybar drop link from the swaybar side. You will also need to remove
- lower steering column remove the pinch bolt and the knuckle from the rack and whole lower column drops out.
- large earth strap that connect the subframe to the body LH side of the car

 

Got it! Had my head in there for 30 minutes and never bothered to see where the swaybar terminates.

Thanks!

John
1987 XJ-S V12
63,000 miles