Ok, right off the bat I want to apologize for this thread. I just searched threads of the past and found a post from 2017 that wanted to compile all the major changes over the years to this model. A daunting, complex and not-enviable task to say the least.

My issues is this...actual "facelift" cars are NOT from 1991-on. They are 1994-on. Park my Jan '93 convertible next to a 94-on XJS and tell me with a straight face they look the same. Park my car next to a 1990-91 and tell me my car looks different.
I brought up the issue with a notable JCNA judge (name withheld to protect him) and was told Mother Jaguar decided it. For judging purposes the marketing dept decided to call 91-on facelift cars to help boost sales, particularly in the US, in 1998. Judging felt not enough late model cars would be entered in Concours to compete, so let it go. Subsequently, the moniker stuck.

Flash forward to 2020 and 91-on cars are showing up at Concours to be judged and are competing with 94-on cars.
Can this "marketing error" finally be acknowledged and made right please????

 

To me, ugly taillights = facelift model

That means 1992 an on = facelift

Not sure why 1991 would even be a conversation

 

I can imagine this isn't what you want to hear, but it looks different. Very different.

Completely different body panels, headlights, front grille, hood(bonnet), taillights, dashboard, etc. The big difference between a '92 and the later facelift cars on the exterior are the body colored bumpers with integrated spoiler and the door handles. If you have a convertible, the differences between a '90 and '92 are less obvious whereas with a coupe the famous flying buttresses were the most obvious body panel change.

It's not a "marketing error". To give you some background, the '91 models are actually '90 models that they kept building until the factory was shutdown to retool for the facelift production. The only marketing gambit was in California where there was never a '91 model because the CARB restrictions changed between 1990 and 1991 so they continued to sell cars labeled as '90 models until the arrival of the '92's.

Apologies

 

Have you raised this with the JCNA concours committee?

 

The boys down at the Yacht club will hear of this outrage!

 

92/93XJS,

Although a long-term Jaguar and XJS owner, I'm not a concours participant. I appreciate the difficulties you may have in entering such competitions, but the reality is that the term "facelift" has got nothing to do with club concours, its because the post ViN 179737 XjS is fundamentally different.

Jaguar introduced hundreds of different design and part numbers for the facelift car. From the majority-galvanised bodyshell, completely different instrument cluster, revised rear wings and different light clusters to a new 4 litre engine, the cars are significantly different. Just because the bumpers on an HE XJS (itself a fundamentally different car to a pre-HE XJS) are similar to an early facelift model, it doesn't make them the same car.

On Jaguars own parts website, they even split facelift and pre-facelift cars as separate models, because of the enormity of the changes.

The post VIN 188105 "Big- Bumper", by comparison, "merely" had a bumper change at that point.

You might feel disadvantaged in concours participation, but post VIN 179737 XJS is a facelift model as introduced by Jaguar and recognised by every Jaguar community and parts supplier. Its just a fact.

Why not push the concours community to further subdivide the class by "early-facelift" and "late-facelift" cars?

Good luck
Paul

 

are we sure this thread is not related to the President elections!
what a mess ?

 

Yes. JCNA acknowledged that a change of model year designation should be done. I was told to submit a form at the next AGM.

 

Paul,
As I mentioned in my intro, the 2017 post attempting to put together a definitive document separating the models over 20 years seemed a daunting and impossible task.
Thank you for the details above. They touch the tip of the iceberg of these icon models. In the end though it is the difficulty of the general public to understand why a chrome-bumper car is called the same as a plastic-face car when standing in front of it, let alone the myriad of small details both inside and out. Compound that with Jaguar's habit of fitting things to cars as they went down the assembly line with whatever was on the shelf, i.e. in-board rear brakes on a Jan '93 build (mine). How is the public suppose to appreciate different models if we, as owners/enthusiasts, have difficulties as well?
Dave

 

I have what is termed an "interim Facelift" It has the better looking cluster, the side windows that appear larger because they have a bigger piece of glass covering the same opening, one piece glass in the front doors instead of two, tidier tail lights and boot lid taller centre in the bonnet and the same bumpers as the HE.

 

Back when I first adopted my 94 6.0 coupe, I was convinced that was the facelift year.
Since then I have been chastised about it to the point I no longer use the term.
The subject is as volatile as religion and politics.

 

I'm not clear as to why this is so objectionable.

I presume it makes the class too large?

Or is it a matter where the differences are considered significant enough to require different judges and/or judging considerations?

Or simply the cars are different enough that unique recognition seems appropriate?

Cheers
DD

 

The Facelift models are designated XJS (no dash). Earlier models are designated XJ-S.

 

I thought the purpose and judging of a concours event was to determine which cars are either restored or preserved to a 'as left the factory' condition. Wouldn't JCNA judges know that there were changes year after year throughout the XJ-S/XJS production? So if a '75, '82, '90, '92 and '96 were in a single class, a judge wouldn't say, "I like the looks of the '96 more than the others." Wouldn't it instead be something like "the '82 is a 99 point example of an early HE"? IOW, any car isn't actually judged against any other car entered in the class, each is judged against a specific ideal of that production year, and then the scores are compared across the class.

I've never participated in a concours event, so maybe my understanding of the judging is flawed.

Cheers

 

Right

I'll answer "yes"....with the proviso that not all judges are equally well informed. Not, at least, back in the days when I was judging and showing at JCNA events. But that was years ago.


No, not flawed.

I myself was wondering what the rationale was for breaking out a new class, thus my questions above. One possibility is that the XJS class has grown too large and has lots of exceptional cars. This would prevent worthy cars (and owners' efforts) from being recognized. That is, lots of owners of worthy cars would be going home without a trophy. If your efforts are unrecognized long enough you'll be less likely to participate. And any club wants more participation, not less.

Cheers
DD

 

AHMEN on that one Doug, lke the election totaly messed up!

 

I recall a few years ago a newby forum visitor called his model an 'S type'.
He must have been visiting early Jaguar sites and thought he would appear knowledgeable.
The nice thing about most of the forums is no one ridiculed him.
He was corrected without being nasty.

 

To be clear, I don't necessarily oppose the scenario I described......which might not even apply to the situation at hand with JCNA with respect to XJS classes.

Vaguely along the same lines.....

Elsewhere in the car hobby I am (loosely) affiliated with a group that judges restored cars on a 1000 point basis. Long story short, a lot of restorations have become so superb, and SO precise in minute details, that the 1000 point system wouldn't allow the most accurate possible judging. A new class, with a 3000 point score, and dozens of new aspects to be judged, was created for those who want to compete at that level. Thus, extraordinary efforts (and results) will be recognized

Cheers
DD

 

In fairness, early advertising in the USA did call the XJ-S an S Type.

 

Wow!!!!! Even an old codger like me can learn something.
I bet the older S type owners formed a lynching party.