Hi,

I'm new to Jaguars and have always liked the XK8 and XJS and of course the E-type but I'm not Bill Gates.

I passed on the XK8 because I found out it only came with an auto transmission. What a waste.

Now I'm researching the XJS and it seems the V12 is only auto as well? Is it so? If so I wonder why all these cars with powerful engines come only with auto transmissions? It's a waste.

I think the inline 6 came with a five speed. But is it worth bothering with the inline 6 car? It seems given the weight it would be under powered and they don't even seem that much cheaper than the V12.

Which brings me to the next topic. When I looked at XJS cars a couple of years ago the prices were much better. Now they are going for the same or more as XK8s. If I would have to put up with an auto transmission and at these prices I might be inclined to go with the XK8. I like the XJS design better as the XK8 looks a bit soft. The XJS is more muscular. But I hear the XK8 is miles more reliable.

I have to say things are not looking up to reach my goal of buying a GT. I want to get a proper GT or luxury coupe. I want a more classic car. Not interested on anything too new. But it has to be rear wheel drive and manual and a V8 or V12. Would consider a V6 or inline 6 depending on the case.

But it's harder than I thought. Everything is either auto transmission or front wheel drive or not really worth it, like a Ford Capri.

Looked at Mercedes W126 SEC but only auto trans. XK8, same. Don't like BMWs. Don't want french.

So it seems my best bet may be buy American, like a Mustang. But in Europe I would rather stick with an European car. Also you just can't compare the level of finishing and comfort of a Mercedes or Jaguar to a U.S. car.

 

CXJ,

I'm sure you'll get lots of different views on this topic but here's my thoughts:

- The 5.3 V12 was initially available as a manual. Only c350 built as it just wasn't popular. Paradoxically they are very desirable now though!

- The 3.6 and 4.0 were available as manual cars. In fact there are more manual 3.6 than auto 3.6. The 4.0 was much more popular as an Auto, particularly the late AJ16-engined cars.

- A manual 4.0 AJ16 is almost as fast as a V12 auto and much more involving to drive. A nice car.

- Manual conversions of V12 autos is a very popular enhancement. There are many options, the cheapest being the complete manual setup from a 3.6 or 4.0 manual car. The options extend up to teh Tremec 5 and 6 speed boxes.

Try out a few cars, particularly a well-executed V12 manual conversion.

Good luck

Paul

 

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

When time permits please do an intro in the New Members Area.

I agree with Paul.

Judging by your last comment, I will assume you are in the US of A???.

I suggest finding a PROPERLY sorted V12, which in the States will not be easy, and drive it. Sadly there are way too many "so-so" cars, and they will disappaoint greatly.

Properly sorted, these cars are FAST, and the Auto makes little difference to that progression.

Lots of Manual Conversions, and with a diff ratio change to 3.54:1, wakes this beast up something fierce.

The sheer torque of the V12 makes constant "cog swapping" totally pointless, so not something I would do.

The later 6ltr V12 with the TH400 4 speed Auto was the pinnacle in MY opinion.

 

I agree that V12 auto are fast, especially 6L V12 4 speed auto, made by GM : 4L80-E

 

Grant, re-reading the last comment I get the impression he's in Europe, which would make sense as to the XJS prices being up as they are pretty stagnant here in the states.

 

Thanks for all the welcoming.

I'm indeed in mainland Europe. Prices are going bananas here. So they are cheaper in the U.S.? Are they cheaper in the UK than in the mainland? Although RHD makes them not a great option here.

The reason I want manual has nothing to do with speed. It has to do with driving pleasure. The way I see it if you want a car for transportation auto is ok. But with an auto you are not really driving, you are only steering. I need manual.

Are the V12 manual conversions hard to find? I have never seen one for sale and I can only think it will be very expensive.

How much does it run for a conversion?

Thanks.

 

The "driven man" conversion here in the states is around 5k USD which given the value of most v-12's in the states makes it cost prohibitive. Average V-12 XJS prices here in NE Florida are 4k USD on average.

 

Hi CXJ,


I have never driven a V12 so probably haven't lived yet! My experience is with 6 cylinder cars as below.


In my search for an XJS I drove several automatic 3.6 and 4.0 cars as there were more of them available in the UK than manuals. They were great drives but then one day I drove a 3.6 manual and it was a totally different experience. More engaging, more fun and changed my opinion of the car - it made me sit up and take notice of what was going on. So I bought it.


Be aware though that the manual gearbox is not sporty and has a long throw between changes so this is no hot hatch back for rapid gear changes. However, the engine has so much torque that you can hold high gears to quite low speeds. Drive and see.


Good luck in your search,


LeeP

 

Thanks Leep. I will only do it if it's a manual or if I know for sure I can get a swap. Before I buy an auto I would probably buy a Mustang GT or something. If I liked BMWs I could go for a M3, but I hate them. There are also people who have swapped a manual trans in a 560 SEC. But I read is very hard. Hoping the XJS is easier. The 560 SEC and XJS V12 are my two favorite coupes from the 80's/90's.

 

Thanks JTsmks.

That sounds expensive. Hopefully it's cheaper around here in Europe.

 

Welcome to the far sighted elite! provided you work on the car yourself and see that as part of the fun, XJSs are great and parts no more expensive than a modern hatchback, with excellent parts supply. A well sorted V12 XJS is still one of the finest GT cars on the road.

XJSs are generally much more expensive in most of continental Europe than in the UK and far fewer to choose from. Certainly in France and Belgium and Holland this is true. A Uk car will be RHD though.

A decent modern gearbox V12 conversion kit will set you back about 5000 euros in parts, maybe more. If you regularly trawl UK ebay they do come up every now and then. Also the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club I=has a good mag with lots of adverts in every month. Every now and then a manual XJS pedal box comes up for sale on UK ebay and if you decide to buy an auto and intend to convert, well worth buying it as it bolts straight in and has the reservoirs etc that you need. Also, occasionally original Jaguar V12 manual boxes come up too.
Greg

 

Thanks Greg. Yeah, the prices and reports of high maintenance are starting to turn me around. A 560 SEC is a tank and basically never breaks. If I need to do a manual conversion the 560 SEC gets back in the game as an option. You get a great V8, Mercedes bullet proof quality that Jaguar could never match in any era, better technology etc. Just wish the XJS V12 came in manual to make things easier.

Best priced XJS cars I found are in either Italy or Spain. France, Belgium, Holland, Austria and Germany people seem to think they have an Aston Martin in their hands and just want way too much.

I'm seeing XK8s for much less than XJS and again if I have to go through the hassle of converting a car, the XK8 becomes an option again as well. I heard a XK8 with a manual is literally an Aston and the reason Aston asked Ford not to let Jaguar sell the XK8 with a manual.

Hack, I saw Astons for less than some crazy priced XJS too. Are they all delusional Saint fans or what? Bond trumps Templar. Don't they know that?

 

And what makes matters worse for me is it must be a post facelift car. So 91 and newer. I found affordable 70's and early 80's V12s. But I want the newer style.

 

CXJ,

The cheapest way to get into facelift manual XJS motoring is to buy an early manual 4.0 AJ6-engined car (1991 - April 1994). The second cheapest way is to buy any facelift auto car (V12 or 4.0) and then buy the whole manual setup from a manual 3.6 or 4.0 XJS.

The 3.6 uses a Getrag 265 box and the facelift 4.0 uses a Getrag 290 box. Although the 290 box is stronger, many owners have fitted the 265 box into the V12 quite happily.

Some breakers will put together a kit of all the bits from a manual car to convert an auto. This includes the box, box mounts, pedal box, clutch, cylinders, gear lever and the skislope veneer panel around the gear lever. About £1800 all in for RHD cars. I suspect a bit more for a LHD car because of pedal box etc.

Cheapest way by far to get a good LHD car is buy and ship it from the US. In fact the best LHD cars in Germany are usually US imports.

Hope all that helps. Go on, do it, you'll love the drive!

Good luck.

Paul

 

Thanks Paul.

Are you in Germany?

Is it really cheaper to buy them from the U.S. even after shipping and importing duties? I have never bought a car from overseas but I would think shipping would be in the thousands? Then how much is customs normally, around 30%?

Then there is the problem you can't test drive it and inspect the car and have to rely on the seller. Going by what I heard when you buy these cars you should be very careful and inspect everything because if you get a lemon you might as well buy an new Aston Martin. Because the bills to get it right will run you as much.


Didn't see any LHD early manual 4.0 AJ6-engined car for sale yet. I'm thinking they are very rare?

 

Hop on a plane to Madrid and buy yourself that one:

Jaguar XJS

Probably the only LHD facelift AJ6 manual all over Europe at the moment.

Good luck!

 

Thanks. But €19.000?

I can buy a V12 and convert it to manual for much less than that I gather. This price is insane.

 

A matter of desire and taste, but if you are not seriously in love with an XJS it will drive you mad, as they need TLC all the time. A Merc will be far more easy to own that an XJS. Not nearly as wonderful a car when the XJS V12 is 100% right, but far less trouble to keep it right. Parts more expensive, wow factor zero.


The XK8 and the Aston DB7 share a platform and the bodies are damn nearly the same. The Jaguar is far better built than the Aston. XK8 parts are FAR cheaper and easier to find. The Aston has a supercharged 6 cylinder engine, rather than the XK8's V8. The Aston engine is essentially the Jaguar AJ16 engine as used in the later XJSs and in the X300 saloons and the supercharged X300 saloons. It is less refined than the XK8.


Decisions, decisions. Greg

 

19.000 is probably not the last price.


IMHO a normal price for a good facelift V6. The V12 ones are much cheaper to get. Guess why....

 

CXJ,

No, i'm not in Germany, I'm in the UK. It's just that I have helped some owners in Spain purchase LHD XJS in the past.

The problem that you are having in both getting price advice and finding a car is that the various geographic markets are very different at the moment.

The most popular market for manual cars is naturally the UK. But you won't find a LHD manual car here and XJS prices are much higher than in some overseas markets.

The US has the best low-mileage late cars, and is the cheapest place at the moment for LHD cars by a country mile. They are going for 50% of the equivalent UK price at present. BUT, you won't find a US manual facelift car, unless you're incredibly lucky. However, even with shipping and taxes, you'll land the best, cheapest LHD XJS Auto in Germany through the import route. There are loads of companies who can arrange everything to safely ship a car to Bremerhaven. I know the cost of shipping is only one component but I think you can do that for about $900 for a RoRo or $1500 - $2500 for a container.

I'm sure you'd love an auto XJS, but if your heart is set on a manual, then I think you need to treat the whole exercise as an interesting conversion project, unless you're very lucky to find a LHD manual car at the right money.

Paul