XK / XKR ( X150 ) 2006 - 2014

Anyone Added DSP or EQ to B&W System?

 
  #21  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:16 PM
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I guess it's all in everyone's listening . While driving with the top down my system (FM) is low background noise. With the top up it is very good and in fact due to my years of playing in several garage bands I need to turn down the bass. I find the system clear and as good as other systems I've heard in other top of the line cars. This discussion is similar to those of the exhaust note. As to my PAE the noise level while driving is enjoyable and if you want more just hit the dynamic button and it makes for a great sounding system.
 
  #22  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
There is another thread on here (sorry, no time to search right now) where Queen and Country experimented by putting a thin mylar (I believe) cover over the tweeter. It was hardly noticeable and reduced the tinniness (as reported by Q&C, I have not tried it)
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...gation-192487/

Post #161 is what I was referring to. Cheap to just try....

Good info in there from Cambo and Q&C. Happy reading.
 
  #23  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:15 AM
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+1.... I put a black wrap over the door tweeters as suggested in that thread and the sound improvement was significant! Additionally, black wrap makes them barely noticable as well.
 
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:32 PM
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Default New here, looking to make audio tweaks as well.

The 8.1 B&W system is great for what it is but I find the highs a bit much myself. I currently have a new Factory Sealed with Warranty subwoofer from Critical Mass, the UL12 5000Watt made for ultralight performance applications, I paid far below the $15k Retail, like 14k lower. Debating removing the useless backseats to accommodate a custom enclosure possibly with additional stereo deck back fed over Factory & encase the amp there as well. Any thoughts at all or input from those who have done this type of thing would be appreciated.
 
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealth187 View Post
The 8.1 B&W system is great for what it is but I find the highs a bit much myself. I currently have a new Factory Sealed with Warranty subwoofer from Critical Mass, the UL12 5000Watt made for ultralight performance applications, I paid far below the $15k Retail, like 14k lower. Debating removing the useless backseats to accommodate a custom enclosure possibly with additional stereo deck back fed over Factory & encase the amp there as well. Any thoughts at all or input from those who have done this type of thing would be appreciated.
You'll not be so...erm stealth...as they'll hear you coming from miles away!
 
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealth187 View Post
The 8.1 B&W system is great for what it is but I find the highs a bit much myself. I currently have a new Factory Sealed with Warranty subwoofer from Critical Mass, the UL12 5000Watt made for ultralight performance applications, I paid far below the $15k Retail, like 14k lower. Debating removing the useless backseats to accommodate a custom enclosure possibly with additional stereo deck back fed over Factory & encase the amp there as well. Any thoughts at all or input from those who have done this type of thing would be appreciated.
Do it!!!! and post pics once your done...
 
  #27  
Old 10-24-2018, 11:11 AM
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Do you remember the white vans that sold 15k speakers for $500.... all day long....
Step in the wrong direction and off the cliff.
 
  #28  
Old 10-24-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pwpacp View Post
+1.... I put a black wrap over the door tweeters as suggested in that thread and the sound improvement was significant! Additionally, black wrap makes them barely noticable as well.
An update.
Here is what went wrong and where the fault lies.
Had lunch with a friend who designs at Harman.
It was not Bowers nor Harman at fault. The designed by committee wildebeest was doomed from the onset.
Then, JLR opted not to go with 2 additional channels on the amp. (dont know why)
The 2 channels that would have been required if one wanted to add tweeters on the A pillars the right way, in phase alignment.
 
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen and Country View Post
Do you remember the white vans that sold 15k speakers for $500.... all day long....
Step in the wrong direction and off the cliff.
It was purchased from an authorized dealer with over 300k transactions in the green over 10yrs. I've got it posted for sale a few places but if it doesn't sell I'll build it into 1 of my vehicles, likely the Jag. PayPal moneyback guaranteed.
 
  #30  
Old 10-25-2018, 11:21 PM
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Interesting thread. I have some comments and questions.

I have a MY2008 XKR Convertible Portfolio Edition. It has the B&W Kit and an old ipod 30-pin connection kit.

I have found the speaker system to be the best I have ever heard in a car -- but susceptible to poor input sources - which includes the XM Radio, CD system and depending on the source material, even the ipod.

I also hate the onboard nav system. So, I built a LDAC Bluetooth receiver system using the simple circuit from here:
podemu - but instead of using their audio bluetooth circuit (XS3868), bought a ES100-24bit LDAC Bluetooth Receiver (see
EarStudio ES100 EarStudio ES100
) and use the audio ouput of that to feed the IPOD interface. The LDAC makes a HUGE difference over standard bluetooth and APTX and sounds way better than all other in car options IMO.

So, now, when I step in the car, I drop my Galaxy Note 9 into a wireless charging, vent holder with electric jaws (see
Vent Holder Vent Holder
). It automatically detects the HC-05 in the podEmu circuit above and launches Android Auto (with Waze, Amazon Music, Google Music, Deezer and more).

I have to say - the sound is phenomenal - and the ES100 also has an android DSP app to preprocess the audio before it gets to the car...and the in car controls work with the rig.

So - now my questions:
  1. Do I love the sound because my ears are old with probable high end in-ear, roll-off? or
  2. Do I love the sound because I am feeding it with a high quality input, with EQ applied b4 the car audio?
  3. The Big Question: Is the 2008 Portfolio edition audio system different from other models? I ask this, because I am looking to buy a 2015 XKR Convertible and would hate to go backwards on audio quality.
Cheers.

s.
 

Last edited by skavan; 10-25-2018 at 11:23 PM.
  #31  
Old 10-26-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by skavan View Post

So - now my questions:
  1. Do I love the sound because my ears are old with probable high end in-ear, roll-off? or
  2. Do I love the sound because I am feeding it with a high quality input, with EQ applied b4 the car audio?
  3. The Big Question: Is the 2008 Portfolio edition audio system different from other models? I ask this, because I am looking to buy a 2015 XKR Convertible and would hate to go backwards on audio quality.
You like the sound because you have somewhat addressed the problem.
The DAC section on all these head units is antiquated and the resulting harshness is amplified with the revealing and misaligned tweeter.

Naturally you cannot fix the tweeter phase with a DSP, but you can reduce the high frequency effectiveness with the many things you described including going over bluetooth as it too truncates.
You can go up several notches by ditching the BT and going direct via cable, you are probably aware that a 192k or 356k DAC means nothing as BT steps it all back down to 44.
Try the LG V30, which has an MQA DAC, hardwired. Its the best sounding phone.

I would take the 2015XKR even if it could never have a stereo.

 
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billqs (04-03-2019)
  #32  
Old 04-03-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen and Country View Post
You like the sound because you have somewhat addressed the problem.
The DAC section on all these head units is antiquated and the resulting harshness is amplified with the revealing and misaligned tweeter.

Naturally you cannot fix the tweeter phase with a DSP, but you can reduce the high frequency effectiveness with the many things you described including going over bluetooth as it too truncates.
You can go up several notches by ditching the BT and going direct via cable, you are probably aware that a 192k or 356k DAC means nothing as BT steps it all back down to 44.
Try the LG V30, which has an MQA DAC, hardwired. Its the best sounding phone.

I would take the 2015XKR even if it could never have a stereo.
Queen and Country from what you've posted, the DAC and DSP sections are part of the reason for less than stellar sound through these systems. I see you recommending an LG V30 through I guess Aux input? While there is an excellent dac in the LG V30, is there signal degradation as the V30 DAC turns the sound analog, it goes through 3.5 Aux plug input, the DAC in the Head Unit reencodes it digitally to send to the amp, which again translates it into analog for use in the various drivers? I can see where a more robust input could allow us better EQ possibilities, just wondering about the multiple digital/analog changes. If this is a good plan, I may pick up a dedicated Digital Audio Player and go for broke, but I wanted verification I understand what's going on.
 
  #33  
Old 04-03-2019, 11:28 AM
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Good questions.
Double-DACing, depending on the situation, actually improves things many times over.
Because you are improving the input (and in this case substantially- more on that later)

Think of it as a bad record player, everything you play on it will sound bad, however, bad records will sound worse.
So when you play good records on a bad player, you can improve the player. So how do we improve the records.
There are 2 ways....

The problem with our shitty head unit is that it wont even play high resolution. So set aside the bad DAC, it will only play bad resolution.
In other words, even if it was the worlds best DAC it can only accept audio cassette quality.
So when we use just an external player, we are at least improving the quality of the content itself. And that difference between what low quality mp3 and DSD is mind-blowing. Its binary, there is magnitudes more information as witnessed by the file size alone. A mp3 song is 4mb a DSD is 1GB.

So when we feed it a DSD file converted to analog we have more information that has been converted much more accurately. Thus improving the source.
The high quality DAC in an external player will also do filtering that the bad DAC wont do.
And it will do DSP that the onboard DAC wont do.

Now even when the builtin DAC truncates, degrades, you are starting out with much higher content that can withstand some of that. Not so the case with MP3 which is already bare minimum.
And you are negating many of its ills by the DSP ability you have. For instance if the head-unit boosts the 10khz (and it does) you can now lower that in your DSP.

Before you do anything, make sure you can find an input that will accept analog (you may have one in your car which I am not familiar with)

We had several guys look at this in our company and decided the only way to solve this problem was to inject an external dsp amp after the head unit stage. And our amp accepts the input from your phone or external digital player. Thereby preserving all the functions built into the car. Just allowing you to use your own source when you want to.
 
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2019, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for the reply Queen and Country ! I can see where you're coming from. I have an Aux input for analog and a USB input for ipod, phone or flash drive. If only the system would leave the digital going in unmolested it would be great. As I understand it, the signal travels by digital fibre coax out of the head unit and into the stock amp. I'm interested in the amp your company has devised, is it up for sale? I'd like to have the best sound possible.
 
  #35  
Old 04-03-2019, 01:15 PM
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Yes and tapping into that fiber cable has caused everyone grief.

Start with obtaining a good source device, which you have to do anyway.
I suggest the LGV30 because of its unique ability to stream MQA files from HiRez streaming companies and work with voice commands.
If you want to go further I will introduce you to the engineer involved and you can get one-on-one help. You will need it for the DSP settings.
Unfortunately its not affordable at around $800 because of the Italian company that built it.

The benefit is that you will have dedicated channels to the tweeter. In our XK, there is no dedicated channel. So no DSP. No wonder the treble control affects the midrange too.
 
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billqs (04-03-2019)
  #36  
Old 04-03-2019, 02:26 PM
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Queen and Country Thanks for the time you've taken helping me out. I will look into the LGV30. I currently use an Iphone 8 Plus which sounds good, but it doesn't have the audiophile ESS processors like the V30. As a matter of fact, I don't believe Apple will even tell you whose DAC they use. I had thought a DAP since my phone needs are met, but you mentioned an excellent point about being responsive to voice commands. There are some really excellent DAPS out there that use ESS or AK dac chips (like the one in my RME DAC).

The Meridian (in name only) 380W system luckily sounds pretty good in the XE and has highs, mids and lows for each channel with a little sub in the wheelwell. Looks like the XK and XKR are missing a critical component without midrange speakers which must be incredibly frustrating. You're right in another thread I think about the B&W (PSS) highly resolving aluminum tweeters (which is often a good thing in high fidelity audio) and how it really shows the flaws especially in broadcast radio. I only want to do what is necessary taking one step at a time- improving input where I can, and gauging any further changes after I do after that.

Would you happen to know if the 380W Meridian system in the XE would be reprogrammable with an amp replacement to the Meridian Surround? I've found conflicting report on that.
 

Last edited by billqs; 04-03-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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Queen and Country (04-03-2019)
  #37  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:14 PM
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Last year friend of mine got hired at Harman to head the high-end OEM dept.
I asked him what happened to the XK.
He found out that there was a decision required to go with a 6 channel amp or an 8 channel amp.
The 8 channels would have allowed for independent control of the tweeter.
Either Harman made it cost-prohibitive or Jaguar declined to spend the extra money. (there could have been some other mechanical engineering reason too)

You know your stuff, I know car audio professionals who dont know what you know about OEM drivers being vastly superior in efficiency and weight savings. (another mechanical engineering decision)

Does iphone play DSD and MQA? How about 24/192?
 
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by billqs View Post
Would you happen to know if the 380W Meridian system in the XE would be reprogrammable with an amp replacement to the Meridian Surround? I've found conflicting report on that.
I do not know.
 
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen and Country View Post
Last year friend of mine got hired at Harman to head the high-end OEM dept.
I asked him what happened to the XK.
He found out that there was a decision required to go with a 6 channel amp or an 8 channel amp.
The 8 channels would have allowed for independent control of the tweeter.
Either Harman made it cost-prohibitive or Jaguar declined to spend the extra money. (there could have been some other mechanical engineering reason too)

You know your stuff, I know car audio professionals who dont know what you know about OEM drivers being vastly superior in efficiency and weight savings. (another mechanical engineering decision)

Does iphone play DSD and MQA? How about 24/192?
That is an amazing compliment coming from you! I'm kind of speechless. I looked up the formats and the iphone plays FLAC and ALAC and can be configured to play hi res audio through Tidal or an Iphone app although it takes some monkeying around. I also have a couple of portable dacs that the phone could feed if necessary.

That's a shame Harman/ JLR decided on a 6 channel amp instead of the 8 channel, especially as the 8 is available on other premium sound systems they offer. Sounds like that's the missing link with the XK.
 

Last edited by billqs; 04-03-2019 at 03:42 PM.
 

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