Bmw powered jaguars
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Bulgaria
A couple of threads on here already about it.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...bo-v8s-166384/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/o...ngines-166363/
I think it's a bad idea from a marketing point of view, but I also think they painted themselves into a corner and they don't have too many other choices.
It's different when your engines come from the parent or sibling companies, but when they come from a competitor?
End of an era you could say...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...bo-v8s-166384/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/o...ngines-166363/
I think it's a bad idea from a marketing point of view, but I also think they painted themselves into a corner and they don't have too many other choices.
It's different when your engines come from the parent or sibling companies, but when they come from a competitor?
End of an era you could say...
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Joined: Aug 2013
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From: San Diego, CA
The legacy owners, or purists as they may want to be called ALWAYS whine against change. Look at when Ferrari went to auto trans all sports car enthusiasts cried foul until it proved superior in every way. Hardley Abelson had Porsche design the V-Rod water cooled engine which was the first engine that actually created horsepower and didn't leak like a sieve or break down constantly and the legacy owners hated it. Legacy owners hated it when Jag was bought by Ford but quality was improved by leaps and bounds. The new smaller Porsche Boxster/Caymen/911 twin Turbo motor has far better performance and mpg too (longevity will need to be seen) but the older owners were kicking and screaming against it... if they put a TT into a smaller, lighter weight Jag that has increased HP and torque without compromising reliability I don't care if Toyota or Suzuki makes it I'm happy.
Last edited by Leeper; Jul 26, 2016 at 08:48 AM.
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From: Kaysville, Utah, US
Agreed with Leeper, but I also would HATE to have anything BMW added. However if it were a JOINT venture, then it'd be more easily palatable.
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My biggest concern is that changing away from supercharged to turbocharged engines will drastically alter the character of the cars.
Supercharging has been Jaguar's "thing" since the mid 90's (the '95 XJR6 being the first) and it's really a special experience driving a supercharged car.
Yeah you can make 11ty million horsepower with turbo's but it's a different experience from behind the wheel.
I'm yet to experience a turbocharged car that has the same instant shove in the back response like a supercharged one.
Not mention the aural experience. This was lost a bit when they switched from the Eaton M-series to the TVS, and the whine disappeared, but it was compensated by the crackle and snarl of the exhaust, listen to an F-Type, XKR-S, etc you will never get that outrageous soundtrack from a turbocharged six or eight.
If the next wave of Jaguars don't have an outrageous soundtrack, or (god forbid) they go down the road of artificial noises played through the sound system, it really will be the beginning of the end for me...
Supercharging has been Jaguar's "thing" since the mid 90's (the '95 XJR6 being the first) and it's really a special experience driving a supercharged car.
Yeah you can make 11ty million horsepower with turbo's but it's a different experience from behind the wheel.
I'm yet to experience a turbocharged car that has the same instant shove in the back response like a supercharged one.
Not mention the aural experience. This was lost a bit when they switched from the Eaton M-series to the TVS, and the whine disappeared, but it was compensated by the crackle and snarl of the exhaust, listen to an F-Type, XKR-S, etc you will never get that outrageous soundtrack from a turbocharged six or eight.
If the next wave of Jaguars don't have an outrageous soundtrack, or (god forbid) they go down the road of artificial noises played through the sound system, it really will be the beginning of the end for me...
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From: Nelson New Zealand
it just won't be the same !
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I would much prefer going down the AMG powered jaguar route never been a fan of bmw
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From: San Diego, CA
again the lack of knowledge, pure hard-headedness, lack of desire to comprehend then accept change, and general inability to wait for facts is amazing... as is sadly the usual case.
Those whining that turbos don't provide fast response clearly have not driven a newer turbo car. Over the last few years they've come a LONG way in both performance and reliability. They've often gone to two smaller turbo's allowing them to spool much faster all but eliminating the lag as well as the "hard punch" known in cars like the Eclipse or 930. Have you even seen the torque charts of newer cars recently? Even at the very bottom they are producing massive torque but clearly facts mean so little right?
Then those whining about "sound"... would you rather go fast or sound fast? The smaller, lighter engines are producing much more hp and torque, much better mpg, much better performance so you're saying you'd rather have a cutesy sound??? You do realize that you can change the exhaust as many do with their v8's right? The vast majority who will be the most vocal about the TT change are also those will not be in a position to purchase the new car for their argument falls VERY short anyway. You guys will resist change no matter what the facts say. The same was said for those against seat belts, disk brakes, ABS, airbags, auto transmissions, the list goes on.
How about this idea... instead of grabbing your pitchforks and threatening to stab the witches why not wait to see if the news is real and then wait to see what the final car/engine does, drive it, and make an educated decision? Maybe keep those emotions in check, just an idea
If the new Jag has comparable or better looks, reliability, weighs less, gets better mpg, and has vastly improved performance count me in! Porsche did it with the new iteration of the 917 and 911 with fantastic results, McLaren did it, Ferrari did it, Bentley did it, I have faith that the new engine designers will create an amazing engine but even more so I'll wait instead of crying "the sky is falling" before there's any proof
Those whining that turbos don't provide fast response clearly have not driven a newer turbo car. Over the last few years they've come a LONG way in both performance and reliability. They've often gone to two smaller turbo's allowing them to spool much faster all but eliminating the lag as well as the "hard punch" known in cars like the Eclipse or 930. Have you even seen the torque charts of newer cars recently? Even at the very bottom they are producing massive torque but clearly facts mean so little right?
Then those whining about "sound"... would you rather go fast or sound fast? The smaller, lighter engines are producing much more hp and torque, much better mpg, much better performance so you're saying you'd rather have a cutesy sound??? You do realize that you can change the exhaust as many do with their v8's right? The vast majority who will be the most vocal about the TT change are also those will not be in a position to purchase the new car for their argument falls VERY short anyway. You guys will resist change no matter what the facts say. The same was said for those against seat belts, disk brakes, ABS, airbags, auto transmissions, the list goes on.
How about this idea... instead of grabbing your pitchforks and threatening to stab the witches why not wait to see if the news is real and then wait to see what the final car/engine does, drive it, and make an educated decision? Maybe keep those emotions in check, just an idea
If the new Jag has comparable or better looks, reliability, weighs less, gets better mpg, and has vastly improved performance count me in! Porsche did it with the new iteration of the 917 and 911 with fantastic results, McLaren did it, Ferrari did it, Bentley did it, I have faith that the new engine designers will create an amazing engine but even more so I'll wait instead of crying "the sky is falling" before there's any proof
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From: Richmond, TX.
I tend to agree with Steve K XK, I would rather have the AMG engine than a BMW, but that is just a personal preference. I also understand Tata's desire to cut the best deal they can. While I Jaguar is allowed to run somewhat autonomously, they are still owned by a large automotive holding company. I really don't think I would be too excited about Tata doing an in house design or collaborating with one of their other motor groups. I really enjoy my XKR and its V8 engine, but then Jaguar didn't have a V8 until 1996 and I thought their twin cam I6's were pretty cool too. In the end, times change and we will have little to say about the road Jaguar takes to spin up a modern engine.
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From: San Diego, CA
Here's some real-world facts/figures/stats for going turbo and in one of the cases a MUCH smaller displacement -
Ferrari 488 -
since going turbo they went to 661 hp / 561 ft/lbs torque from 597 hp / 398 ft/lbs torque despite dropping from 4.8L displacement to 3.9. There's a YouTube video of that car with improved exhaust and it sounds amazing!
Porsche Boxster -
base Boxster went to a 2.0L turbo 300 hp/ 280ft/lbs torque which is 35 more hp and 74 more ft/lbs torque over last year plus is seeing 14% better efficiency despite dropping @ 35% displacement.
Boxster S - went from a 3.4L six to a 2.5L four realizing 350hp / 309 ft/lbs which is a 35 hp/43 ft/lbs improvement.
The reviews on the above cars are outstanding.
not sure why some here feel significantly improving hp, torque, mpg, while losing weight somehow diminishes the car. Jags have a history of being about performance and in today's marketplace if you want to compete you better keep up to or exceed your competition. Part of this is also about newer emissions requirements as well as higher fuel efficiency requirements but glad it raises all the numbers I care about unlike the 1970's gas crunch that all but killed ALL performance cars for years. These are not Saab turbos of elder days that sucked and were costly and frequently needed replacing...
If these turbo results are projected onto a new Jag we could see an engine some 20'ish % smaller in displacement yet could yield 10-15% increase in hp and torque and maybe lose a hundred pounds or so... you guys can whine and throw tantrums I'll go wait in line for one of these! Hopefully it won't look like the F-type, not a true fan of that body for some reason
Ferrari 488 -
since going turbo they went to 661 hp / 561 ft/lbs torque from 597 hp / 398 ft/lbs torque despite dropping from 4.8L displacement to 3.9. There's a YouTube video of that car with improved exhaust and it sounds amazing!
Porsche Boxster -
base Boxster went to a 2.0L turbo 300 hp/ 280ft/lbs torque which is 35 more hp and 74 more ft/lbs torque over last year plus is seeing 14% better efficiency despite dropping @ 35% displacement.
Boxster S - went from a 3.4L six to a 2.5L four realizing 350hp / 309 ft/lbs which is a 35 hp/43 ft/lbs improvement.
The reviews on the above cars are outstanding.
not sure why some here feel significantly improving hp, torque, mpg, while losing weight somehow diminishes the car. Jags have a history of being about performance and in today's marketplace if you want to compete you better keep up to or exceed your competition. Part of this is also about newer emissions requirements as well as higher fuel efficiency requirements but glad it raises all the numbers I care about unlike the 1970's gas crunch that all but killed ALL performance cars for years. These are not Saab turbos of elder days that sucked and were costly and frequently needed replacing...
If these turbo results are projected onto a new Jag we could see an engine some 20'ish % smaller in displacement yet could yield 10-15% increase in hp and torque and maybe lose a hundred pounds or so... you guys can whine and throw tantrums I'll go wait in line for one of these! Hopefully it won't look like the F-type, not a true fan of that body for some reason