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While we may not agree on all points, I have appreciated the exchange of ideas. Maybe using Lexol accomplishes a couple of things - the interior continues to look great and I feel like I'm doing what I can to keep it that way.
This would make a great show and tell. How about some pictures for the group to see. Good show.
OK, here are some photos,taken just now. First, from my wife's X-Type - after she has just returned from a camping trip (!); I took some Lexol, and as usual worked it into the leather by hand, let it penetrate for an hour. Then I took a clean cloth, put more Lexol on the cloth and rubbed away the sticky surface - the amount of dirt that came off on the cloth astounded even me! I then buffed again and snapped these photos. There are no cracks in the leather, just the normal creasing that leather acquires with use. There is NO abrasion or wearing of the colour coat on the bolster. This car (2002 model) has been in daily use: children, dog occasionally, food crumbs, fruit drinks...yuck- but it isn't my car. The leather gets a Lexol treatment about 3 times a year. The leather, as you can see, is excellent.That slight sheen on the leather will be gone by tomorrow as further absorption takes place. This leather is 16 years old (actually, almost 17 from the in-service date). No streaks! (the white flecks I am blaming on children...).
The second set is from my own daily-use car: 2005 X-Type Sportwagon - much cleaner! no dog, no children. The leather (13 years old) is also in perfect condition but this car gets Lexol perhaps every couple of months. Again, I gave this leather a Lexol treatment before taking the photo- almost no dirt came off (!), and again, that sheen will be gone by tomorrow. No streaks!
The following photo was taken this minute, 2 hours after the photo above. You can see that the finish now has less sheen as the Lexol has been more fully absorbed - I did no further buffing - I just opened the door and snapped the photo. - The finish now is as it was from the factory; this is Italian leather by the way, not Connolly (Connolly "stopped trading" in 2002).
Finally, the *original leather* (52 years old) in my 1966 Mk 2 on which I also use Lexol. 'Nuff said. I think the photos show the long-term benefit of using a good non-silicone leather conditioner. Lexol happens to be the one I use most (but I also use the AutoGLym Leather Balm on my F-Type with similar results).
Here is a once in a lifetime pic worth thousand words and a test in time
This etype has been in storage untouched. Driven for 4 years then put away for 45 years.
The leather seems to have survived just fine without any feeding.
However, whats clear from the armrest, and other points of wear; Abrasion is the only true enemy of leather, preventing it will do the most for your interior.
Which is the reason leather gets coated with a clearcoat in automotive leathers. Note, we dont do that with bags, jackets or other fine leather goods.
So anything that will not breakdown that clearcoat, and provide some 'slippage' (such as wax or silicone) will provide the best protection.
That was the finding of the Leather Institute in UK.
(note this leather from yesteryear was not fully clearcoated, and it actually required food, yet it would have done better with mere abrasion protection)
The new generations of leather protectants are ceramic based for this reason as ceramic is the ultimate in abrasion resistance.
Last edited by Queen and Country; 08-10-2018 at 11:27 AM.
How does abrasion occur on the sides of the headrest? That damage looks more like the effects of time, dry rot, and mold.
Its unclear, possibly a canvas cover used to cover it.
But if we ask the inverse question, how were the other areas spared 'dry-rot and mold', then we have some answers, that it could not have been dry-rot or mold.
I'm not sure I'd agree that the leather survived fine.
Connolly used a nitrocellulose lacquer based dyes for a long time. Their hide food product were designed for use on their leather to prevent cracking. And crack it did! Apparently few customers got the message as most pre 1990 Connolly interiors look like that pic.
Anyway, here is an interesting read on leather dyes. All of this is fodder of course. We have our preferences.
Yes thats where the confusion started, older leathers had minimal protection, in an effort to preserve softness. They depended on food. The inverse became true with the advent of soft but impermeable clear coats for leather.
That excellent site (leather-dictionary) also cites abrasion as the only enemy of the top coating old or new. Not once in its problem list does it mention leather starving.
Incidentally this is a excellent source for anything Connolly if one is still looking.Leathercare Renovations
I have 2 full Connolly hides waiting for the right project. Never been treated in 30 years, and absolutely mint.
Yes thats where the confusion started, older leathers had minimal protection, in an effort to preserve softness. They depended on food. The inverse became true with the advent of soft but impermeable clear coats for leather.
That excellent site (leather-dictionary) also cites abrasion as the only enemy of the top coating old or new. Not once in its problem list does it mention leather starving.
Incidentally this is a excellent source for anything Connolly if one is still looking.Leathercare Renovations
I have 2 full Connolly hides waiting for the right project. Never been treated in 30 years, and absolutely mint.
The major factor in leather deterioration in automobiles that you never seem to mention is the combined effect of heat and sun which dries the leather (and any coating it may have on it) . The E-Type interior you showed in the photo was from a car kept in dark storage (you mention that it was canvas-covered). Abrasion, especially on the driver's seat bolster, is indeed a wear factor -and the use of any good conditioner provides some (minimal) protection from that. But abrasion does not explain the deterioration in non-abraded areas! The coating on modern leathers exposed to abrasion, sun and heat needs to be guarded by the use of conditioners to maintain a supple finish. And the coatings, despite the constantly-repeated statement that they are impermeable, do accept conditioners formulated for that purpose (various descriptors are used -"micro-droplets" being one of them). But so-called "conditioners" containing silicones really DO make the surface impermeable!
Again, for the positive effect of using good conditioners, I refer you to the photos I posted above (#62) of the leather my 1966 Mk2 (non-coated) and in two X-Types (coated), all in excellent condition as a result of the use of Lexol on a more or less regular basis.
Documentation? Auto makers, including Jaguar, prefer to let the client think that leather mainentance is just a matter of an occasional wipe with a damp cloth. That will work for the first 5 years or so.
Data? I have better than that: I have had over 20 years experience restoring and maintaining more than 25 Jaguars (I think the count is 32), using everything from Hide Food (next to useless) to Leatherique (excellent on the leathers of the 70's and 80's) to Autoglym Leather Balm (excellent on all) to Lexol (also excellent on all) as well as a variety of the formulations (mostly containing silicones), to the products of the car wax companies (Meguiars, Eagle1, etc...) and also formulations made for "professional" shops.The interior restorations involved repair, preparatory conditioning and recolouring of the leather as well as the regular maintenance conditioning. I have nearly full bottles of "conditioners" that are NOT absorbed, that give an artificially shiny surface because of the waxes and silicones they contain...but I go through a significant quantity of Lexol- because it has none of the negatives mentioned, and I use and have used the Lexol as my go-to conditioner for the leather on my 1966 Mk 2, many 80's era Series III XJ cars, other Jags incluidng an XJ40, X300, X350, my 2007 XK,, three different X-Types, and my F-Type. Therefore I can say with certainty that the Lexol is absorbed by the leather and that it softens dried leather and maintains an as-new finish to modern leather used in Jaguars. I also like the AutoGlym Leather Balm very much but it is somewhat thicker than the Lexol and not quite as easily absorbed - but still excellent.
And yes, the conflicting material regarding leather maintenance is very confusing! But experience tells the tale, doesn't it?
So I had this exact question and called Autoglym directly last week. The woman on the phone was very helpful and we talked for about 15 minutes. She ultimately recommended using only the cleanser because the leather on the f-types are coated and the conditioner will do nothing but sit on top. She also said that it would leave a white cast on any stitching and since I have quilted seats it would be an even worse idea. Autoglym is the actual supplier for Jaguar's leather care products and I would think would know quite well...
I use AutoGlym Leather Balm on the leather of my F-Type. We know that the F-Type and all current Jaguar leathers are coated. Contrary to what you were told I can state categorically that the treatment (AutoGlym Leather Balm) IS absorbed - the longer it is left before buffing, the better. And there is ABSOLUTELY no white residue left anywhere and definitely not on the exposed trim stitching.
If I can manage it I will use the Autoglym today on the driver’s seat and take photos, before, during and after (meaning tomorrow).
I tried AutoGlym Leather Balm when I first bought the car - wasn't impressed - went back to using a damp cloth. 8 years later leather and dash in good condition.
I tried AutoGlym Leather Balm when I first bought the car - wasn't impressed - went back to using a damp cloth. 8 years later leather and dash in good condition.
Why weren't you impressed? The user above you disagrees but seems to love every leather conditioner mentioned haha
If, by chance, you are referring to me as the lover of every conditioner mentioned, not so. Many/most commercial “conditioners” contain silicones. Once you apply such a conditioner you eliminate any possibility of conditioner penetration (sounds ominous, doesn’t it?).
Neither Lexol nor the Autoglym Leather Balm contain silicones and once buffed, neither leaves a shiny surface (and they both do a good job of removing dirt). But I have found that some other conditioners, even those that do not contain silicones (such as Chemical Guys) leave an artificial shine. Not good.
Promised photos will follow.
OK...here are some photos of the Autoglym conditioning of the leather in my F-Type. First point: this leather is in a concours-winning car, so it is, to begin the process, in excellent condition. My purpose in this part of the thread is simply to show that contrary to what has been stated, a non-silicone conditioner (in this case Autoglym) IS absorbed into the leather; it does not remain on top of the leather coating, being unabsorbed, as has been suggested.
All photos are taken on my i-phone in a fairly dark and cool garage so the correct colour of the leather (Brogue) is not demonstrated, and no part of the process is affected by heat.
photo 1, the leather before touching it:
photo 2, Autoglym applied to the leather by (bare) hand without any attempt to work it in - note that the Autoglym is applied to the whole surface including the contrasting stitching:
Photo3, after 35 minutes: You can see that the conditioner is being absorbed and also that the stitching is unaffected:
OK, now I have locked the garage. Tomorrow I will take a photo of the leather after the conditioner has sat on the surface for at least 16 hours, perhaps more, again, with no heat applied. I mention heat because ideally the conditioner should be applied in warm conditions to hasten the absorption process. The garage temperature is about 7 degrees C. So we will see what tomorrow brings. My experience says that most of the conditioner will have been absorbed, but I might be surprised.
ah....the Autoglym bottle. Autoglym products are endorsed by Jaguar. Please note the commentary on the top 3 lines of the back label regarding leather and the need for conditioning (apologies for the fuzzy photo).
I'd not say 'absorbed', but either evaporated or otherwise solidified. It's hard for painted surfaces to absorb anything at all.
If this applies to my use of that verb (absorb) I have ask if you looked at these first photos which show a very clear difference in the amount of Autoglym on the leather surface from the time of application to the next photo 35 minutes later.
The Autoglym conditioner, according to the label, is made up of several elements (soaps, oils and proofing agents) and no mention of water (but that does not necessarily mean that there is none).
Would you say that the elements mentioned on the label would EVAPORATE in a 35 minute period in a cold garage? Does it look as though there is a solidified residue on the seat at this 35 minute point?
I am trying to get to an evidence-based (not opinion-based) observation, thus photographs taken at noted periods. The next time I will be able to take photos will be about 12 hours from now, but I will be able to state the next time period specifically.
Hey, I was just using physics. The top sealing coat would suggest that nothing would absorb. Now, maybe AutoGlym has a component that breaks down that coat and allows the product to actually touch the leather. That'd be one of those "If you use it once, you have to always use it" products.
BUT, since I'm not touching anything and I don't have all the data, I cannot form any further conclusions.
I wouldn't use that on my front seats regardless, mine are cooled. All that gook in all those holes would be a bad thing.
See my posts ##9 and 10 from this 2016 thread: Leather Care
I still have the small bottle of Leather Cleaner & Conditioner that came from the factory with my 2009 XKR Portfolio Convertible. That product was a milky white watery liquid (the opposite of Lexol). I suspect that it was diluted liquid glycerin soap. As explained in the above link, I use the Griot's Garage leather care product that I bought years ago from Amazon. Unfortunately, that product was discontinued, and was similar in viscosity and aroma to the OEM Jaguar product.
Now you know the reason for that little black elastic strap in your trunk (boot).
It's your car, your money, and your choice. The important thing is to keep your leather clean, because dirt is abrasive and will damage the clear polyurethane coating that protects the color coat of your leather.
08-03-2018, 07:01 PM
