Leather care
#1
03-15-2016, 06:15 PM
Leather care
I was just BS'in with an upholstery guy and we were talking about my seats on my 89 Volvo. being old and the leather was stiff I asked what he would recommend to soften them up. I mentioned I use Lexol products and he said that is OK for newer leather but for old leather he recommended Saddle soap. He also said he would use it on my newer leather and especially the dash as it gets dried out by the sun. He also suggested that I apply it with a microfiber cloth but don't rub to hard. So I assume this is a area with a lot of suggestions on what to use and how to apply I thought I'd ask for some feedback.
#2
03-15-2016, 07:59 PM
Veteran Member
#3
03-16-2016, 12:36 AM
Veteran Member
Saddle soap is actually worse than useless for automotive leather - which is quite different from SADDLE leather (!) and yes, modern automobile leathers are colour coated - but the colour coat will permit good conditioners (meaning conditioners that do not contain silicones) to penetrate. Lexol in fact is excellent for modern Jaguar leather (which is Italian leather, by the way). So- called conditioners made by automotive product manufacturers - the ones who make waxes and cleaners, are almost certain to contain silicones.
If your XK has the luxury interior with the leather dash and door panel inserts don't forget to treat those parts as well as the seats. Apply the conditioner, allow time (hours) for it to penetrate; dirt will be brought to the surface which will feel quite sticky. A bit more conditioner on a microfibre cloth will remove this. Then buff with a clean microfibre. This procedure should be done several times a year, more often with convertibles.
(Why should you believe me? 25 years of restoring and showing Jaguars).
If your XK has the luxury interior with the leather dash and door panel inserts don't forget to treat those parts as well as the seats. Apply the conditioner, allow time (hours) for it to penetrate; dirt will be brought to the surface which will feel quite sticky. A bit more conditioner on a microfibre cloth will remove this. Then buff with a clean microfibre. This procedure should be done several times a year, more often with convertibles.
(Why should you believe me? 25 years of restoring and showing Jaguars).
#4
03-16-2016, 11:30 AM
Veteran Member
My upholstery guy gave me the most valuable advise. The first and sometimes the only thing to go is the side bolsters. This is because of the abrasion of the clearcoat. Pure caranuba wax goes a long way to allowing you to 'slip' in.
There is a lot of new research in UK regarding leathers. Here is an excellent source of information- you do have to dig around
Leathercare Renovations
here is a company that makes the product you need. note they do a lot of actual research.
Leather Protector for Car Interiors
There is a lot of new research in UK regarding leathers. Here is an excellent source of information- you do have to dig around
Leathercare Renovations
here is a company that makes the product you need. note they do a lot of actual research.
Leather Protector for Car Interiors
#5
03-16-2016, 04:37 PM
Veteran Member
The side bolster on the driver's seat is indeed the part that wears first but you have been given very bad advice: wax seals the pores of the leather by coating the surface; silicones do the same thing and a wax which also contains silicones is the worst possible combination! The surface of the Jaguar leather will accept conditioners unless the surface has been treated with silicones ( which are in many commercial "conditioners") or wax. If a good conditioner (and there are a number of them) is used then the surface of the leather, even on the bolster, will not suffer excessive abrasion of the colour surface. No wax!
#6
03-16-2016, 04:57 PM
Veteran Member
The side bolster on the driver's seat is indeed the part that wears first but you have been given very bad advice: wax seals the pores of the leather by coating the surface; silicones do the same thing and a wax which also contains silicones is the worst possible combination! The surface of the Jaguar leather will accept conditioners unless the surface has been treated with silicones ( which are in many commercial "conditioners") or wax. If a good conditioner (and there are a number of them) is used then the surface of the leather, even on the bolster, will not suffer excessive abrasion of the colour surface. No wax!
First of all caranuba wax is great on leather and proven for 100s of years-ever seen a shoe that was waxed regularly get the way you are describing.
Modern Leathers are sealed. New studies have shown that top coating is the only thing we need to care for. And indeed only thing you can care for. Lanolin based products, which you describe as 'conditioner' is absolutely not a natural part of leather!! Worst it can accelerate the separation of the top coat- which these days is waterbased and way more fragile than leather of before. All you are doing with Lanolin is softening the top coat. Go read at the links I posted. They are actually the authority for leather testing and the other is guys who formerly worked for Connolly.
What they do sell, if one has leather that needs conditioning is real leather oil. But it makes perfect logical sense to me- if top coat is a polyurethane stuck to leather, than its both impervious and you would only separate it with soaking the leather underneath.
#7
03-16-2016, 05:01 PM
Veteran Member
Furthermore to the logic of 'clogging up pores' what do we think that happens when you spray leather with clearcoat and paint.
There are no pores in modern treated leather- saddle leather, and such, yes.
One last proof, you would not believe how much oil the body secretes, if the leather was remotely receptive you would have a disaster, like they did with King Ranch seats, look them up on ebay, look at the parts the body touches.
There are no pores in modern treated leather- saddle leather, and such, yes.
One last proof, you would not believe how much oil the body secretes, if the leather was remotely receptive you would have a disaster, like they did with King Ranch seats, look them up on ebay, look at the parts the body touches.
Last edited by Queen and Country; 03-16-2016 at 05:05 PM.
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#8
03-16-2016, 05:23 PM
Veteran Member
I am happy using Lexol or Connolly's Hide Food. Lexol goes on easier and I use either product every month or two. I have never had a car where the leather did not look awesome.
I like the beeswax or carnuba wax. I have small jar of Paraboot beeswax for my shoes. Maybe I'll give that a go on the bolster?
I like the beeswax or carnuba wax. I have small jar of Paraboot beeswax for my shoes. Maybe I'll give that a go on the bolster?
#9
03-16-2016, 10:42 PM
Veteran Member
Reproduced below is my post #3 from this thread started in 2011: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...you-use-56684/
"My 2009 XKR Portfolio convertible came from the factory with a 100ml spray bottle of leather cleaner and conditioner with the Jaguar logo. That bottle was affixed to the left side of the trunk. The label does not identify the manufacturer. That product is odorless, clear, and has a very thin viscosity. If anyone knows the identity of the manufacturer, let us know. My upholstery is 2-tone, ivory and slate.
I recently noticed some very little black spots all over my seats and touchscreen. I have no idea how they got there (I drive alot with the top down) and they looked like paint overspray. I tried cleaning the touchscreen using cottonballs saturated with (1) water, (2) Windex, and (3) alcohol, but nothing worked. I didn't want to use any solvents (like Goo Gone or Goof-Off) for fear of damaging the touchscreen. I tried removing the spots from the seats using a soft rag saturated with (1) the Jaguar product and (2) my Lexol leather cleaner, but neither worked. So, I went to Amazon.com and searched for "leather conditioner" in the Automotive section, sorted by Average Customer Review, and read the reviews. Based on the reviews, I decided to buy the Griot's Garage 11259 Leather Care Spray Kit for $24.99. Definitely not cheap (but worth it in my case - read on...)
Griot's leather cleaner is a clear liquid, slightly thick, and I suspect it might be liquid glycerine soap. I put a little on a soft rag and rubbed with my fingertip in small circles and the spots came off in less than a minute. Griot's cleaner did not change the color of my seats. I can't attest as to the effectiveness of Griot's leather conditioner, since it has been less than 2 weeks since I applied it to my dash, door panels, and seats. Griot's conditioner is similar to the Jaguar product; both are clear, odorless, and very thin. I guess they are thin in order to penetrate the leather, instead of just sitting on top.
Since Griot's leather cleaner worked well on my seats, I thought I'd try a little in the corner of my touchscreen to see if it would remove the overspray. I used the same method as on my seats and, to my surprise, it removed the overspray and my touchscreen was like new without any scratches or residue.
I previously used Lexol (both their cleaner and conditioner) on my LS460. Lexol's conditioner is totally different from Griot's conditioner. Lexol is thicker and has a lanolin odor, which I didn't care for. As for Lexol's effectiveness, I guess it's OK, but it left my seats feeling a little sticky for a day until it completely soaked in and dried. Not so with Griot's leather conditioner - it soaks in immediately and doesn't leave a shiny, reflective residue - perfect for the dashboard.
My point is that any product that moisturizes leather without changing the color is fine to keep it from drying out and shrinking. You just have to reapply it often enough, depending on your climate conditions. Just be aware that a conditioner that works well on dark leather might discolor light-colored leather. You don't have to spend alot to get a product that works well. Check the Amazon reviews to find a product that suits your needs."
My Ivory seats still look brand new, as does the rest of the leather interior. I apply Griot's leather conditioner every 4 months and it has worked well for me. When I park outdoors, I always put the top up and use a reflective sun screen in the windshield to prevent my leather dash from shrinking.
I recently noticed some very little black spots all over my seats and touchscreen. I have no idea how they got there (I drive alot with the top down) and they looked like paint overspray. I tried cleaning the touchscreen using cottonballs saturated with (1) water, (2) Windex, and (3) alcohol, but nothing worked. I didn't want to use any solvents (like Goo Gone or Goof-Off) for fear of damaging the touchscreen. I tried removing the spots from the seats using a soft rag saturated with (1) the Jaguar product and (2) my Lexol leather cleaner, but neither worked. So, I went to Amazon.com and searched for "leather conditioner" in the Automotive section, sorted by Average Customer Review, and read the reviews. Based on the reviews, I decided to buy the Griot's Garage 11259 Leather Care Spray Kit for $24.99. Definitely not cheap (but worth it in my case - read on...)
Griot's leather cleaner is a clear liquid, slightly thick, and I suspect it might be liquid glycerine soap. I put a little on a soft rag and rubbed with my fingertip in small circles and the spots came off in less than a minute. Griot's cleaner did not change the color of my seats. I can't attest as to the effectiveness of Griot's leather conditioner, since it has been less than 2 weeks since I applied it to my dash, door panels, and seats. Griot's conditioner is similar to the Jaguar product; both are clear, odorless, and very thin. I guess they are thin in order to penetrate the leather, instead of just sitting on top.
Since Griot's leather cleaner worked well on my seats, I thought I'd try a little in the corner of my touchscreen to see if it would remove the overspray. I used the same method as on my seats and, to my surprise, it removed the overspray and my touchscreen was like new without any scratches or residue.
I previously used Lexol (both their cleaner and conditioner) on my LS460. Lexol's conditioner is totally different from Griot's conditioner. Lexol is thicker and has a lanolin odor, which I didn't care for. As for Lexol's effectiveness, I guess it's OK, but it left my seats feeling a little sticky for a day until it completely soaked in and dried. Not so with Griot's leather conditioner - it soaks in immediately and doesn't leave a shiny, reflective residue - perfect for the dashboard.
My point is that any product that moisturizes leather without changing the color is fine to keep it from drying out and shrinking. You just have to reapply it often enough, depending on your climate conditions. Just be aware that a conditioner that works well on dark leather might discolor light-colored leather. You don't have to spend alot to get a product that works well. Check the Amazon reviews to find a product that suits your needs."
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ralphwg (03-18-2016)
#10
03-16-2016, 10:52 PM
Veteran Member
How It's Made - Automotive Leather - Then and Now
And while I was at it, I decided to reproduce my post #15 from this thread started in 2014: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...tioner-125145/
"There are two types of automotive leather, sealed (polyurethane coated) and unsealed (a.k.a. "aniline"). Before the mid-1980s, all automotive leather was unsealed and very porous and so we cleaned and nourished our leather seats with Connolly Hide Food to keep them supple. But after 1985, most leather manufacturers began to coat the top surface of their leather with a protective layer of polyurethane ("PU") to enhance durability. Think of that PU coating as like today's base coat/clear coat paint finish.
That PU coating reduced the porosity of the leather. "Old school" conditioners containing lanolin and other thick ingredients that worked great on unsealed leather sat on the surface of PU coated leather and left it smooth and shiny, but didn't sufficiently penetrate that coating and get absorbed into the leather. For this reason, all leather cleaners on the US market today are lanolin-free, except for Zymol. See: Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products
IMHO, the most effective leather conditioners today for use on PU coated leather are those that can penetrate that coating. Take your pick of the conditioners that are thin liquids. Thick cream conditioners might make your leather look shiny and smell good, but they won't really condition the leather since they can't penetrate the PU coating as well as the thin viscosity conditioners.
How do you know if your leather is aniline or PU coated? Do the water drop test. See the last link, below.
I thought it best to not reproduce all supporting documentation here in order to save space and, instead, give you the links as follows:
US Dept. of Health and Human Services, Household Products Database, Automotive Products, Leather Detailing: Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products Note that you can search this database by Ingredients (lanolin), manufacturers (Lexol, Meguiar's, etc.), Product Names, Category, Health Effects, etc.
Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS). The above HPD has links to manufacturers' MSDS. You can find if a product contains any hazardous ingredients. Just type in the manufacturer's name, such as Lexol in the Quick Search field and go from there: Error Message Or you can go to the manufacturer's website for their MSDS. Here's Lexol's: http://www.lexol.com/msds/Lexol%20Le...ner%20MSDS.pdf
Lastly, here's an excellent website from Down Under that has all the gory details about automotive leather: CORRECT CAR LEATHER CARE, SHOW SOME LOVE! | BOWDEN'S OWN
I trust you will find this to be informative and helpful."
That PU coating reduced the porosity of the leather. "Old school" conditioners containing lanolin and other thick ingredients that worked great on unsealed leather sat on the surface of PU coated leather and left it smooth and shiny, but didn't sufficiently penetrate that coating and get absorbed into the leather. For this reason, all leather cleaners on the US market today are lanolin-free, except for Zymol. See: Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products
IMHO, the most effective leather conditioners today for use on PU coated leather are those that can penetrate that coating. Take your pick of the conditioners that are thin liquids. Thick cream conditioners might make your leather look shiny and smell good, but they won't really condition the leather since they can't penetrate the PU coating as well as the thin viscosity conditioners.
How do you know if your leather is aniline or PU coated? Do the water drop test. See the last link, below.
I thought it best to not reproduce all supporting documentation here in order to save space and, instead, give you the links as follows:
US Dept. of Health and Human Services, Household Products Database, Automotive Products, Leather Detailing: Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products Note that you can search this database by Ingredients (lanolin), manufacturers (Lexol, Meguiar's, etc.), Product Names, Category, Health Effects, etc.
Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS). The above HPD has links to manufacturers' MSDS. You can find if a product contains any hazardous ingredients. Just type in the manufacturer's name, such as Lexol in the Quick Search field and go from there: Error Message Or you can go to the manufacturer's website for their MSDS. Here's Lexol's: http://www.lexol.com/msds/Lexol%20Le...ner%20MSDS.pdf
Lastly, here's an excellent website from Down Under that has all the gory details about automotive leather: CORRECT CAR LEATHER CARE, SHOW SOME LOVE! | BOWDEN'S OWN
I trust you will find this to be informative and helpful."
#11
03-17-2016, 01:09 AM
Veteran Member
"Lanolin based products, which you describe as 'conditioner' is absolutely not a natural part of leather!! Worse, it can accelerate the separation of the top coat- which these days is waterbased and way more fragile than leather of before. All you are doing with Lanolin is softening the top coat."
Response: I did not make any mention of Lanolin. I am fully aware that the top coat of modern leather is a water-based polymer and it is precisely this top coat which must be kept soft and pliable and clean. When it is allowed to dry out and remain loaded with dirt the result is unsightly cracking of the colour surface. Furthermore, a good modern conditioner is formulated as micro droplets - not a thick cream. These can penetrate the colour coat. The stickiness that results is the very oil and dirt you mention in a further note. The amount of dirt that can be removed using a good quality conditioner is shocking.
I can only repeat that what I have written is from my experience with Jaguar leathers from the 60's (Vaumol) through the 80's (Connolly and Connolly Autolux) and the newer Italian leathers of the current generation. These all respond differently to different types of conditioners. I have found that the best for the leathers of the 80's was Leatherique which is a mixture of oils, but this was not good on the Vaumol leathers, actually dissolving the lacquer colour coat; on those, Hide Food was good. For the modern Italian leathers I have found Lexol to be the best - and I have used just about every brand available. The proof is always in the leather itself; it should be smooth, clean and supple after years of use if properly maintained. Wax is for rendering a surface shiny. Jaguar leather is not shiny!
Response: I did not make any mention of Lanolin. I am fully aware that the top coat of modern leather is a water-based polymer and it is precisely this top coat which must be kept soft and pliable and clean. When it is allowed to dry out and remain loaded with dirt the result is unsightly cracking of the colour surface. Furthermore, a good modern conditioner is formulated as micro droplets - not a thick cream. These can penetrate the colour coat. The stickiness that results is the very oil and dirt you mention in a further note. The amount of dirt that can be removed using a good quality conditioner is shocking.
I can only repeat that what I have written is from my experience with Jaguar leathers from the 60's (Vaumol) through the 80's (Connolly and Connolly Autolux) and the newer Italian leathers of the current generation. These all respond differently to different types of conditioners. I have found that the best for the leathers of the 80's was Leatherique which is a mixture of oils, but this was not good on the Vaumol leathers, actually dissolving the lacquer colour coat; on those, Hide Food was good. For the modern Italian leathers I have found Lexol to be the best - and I have used just about every brand available. The proof is always in the leather itself; it should be smooth, clean and supple after years of use if properly maintained. Wax is for rendering a surface shiny. Jaguar leather is not shiny!
#12
03-17-2016, 09:45 AM
Veteran Member
The problem with leather miracles is that you only find out 7 years down the road that it was wrong. This is the business I should be in! I have used leatherique for a decade and found it abso-efing-lutely does not prevent scuffing on clear coated leather. I have been your humble Guinea pig in this regard.
Dont 'misunderestimate' (to quote bush) caranuba, its role in nature is to provide scuff protection, dirt repellency and natural oils to a living leaf. And I assume it does not clog up the pores of the leaf!! lol.
Dont 'misunderestimate' (to quote bush) caranuba, its role in nature is to provide scuff protection, dirt repellency and natural oils to a living leaf. And I assume it does not clog up the pores of the leaf!! lol.
#13
03-17-2016, 06:15 PM
Veteran Member
Sorry to say this..... but I have had cars that are almost never driven and garage kept with no leather conditioner and look as good as when they were new. My Jag is very rarely drvien and still smells new after 3 years of ownership. My Lexus which is 15 years old and used daily has never had the leather conditioned and looks great with no significant surface cracking. I am not sure conditioning really helps. Living/environment conditions usually dictates what will happen to leather.
#14
03-17-2016, 11:49 PM
Senior Member
↑ Ironically, my 2007 Jaguar with 100,000 miles lived its entire life in Sarasota Florida and the leather looks like brand new and even the dash leather is perfect. It doesn't even look like somebody ever sat in the drivers seat. You would think that the hot Florida sun and temperatures would have done some damage to the leather...yet it hasn't. So there goes the living / environment theory.
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