Overreacting?
#1
Overreacting?
I bought a 2007 XKR from a local hi-line shop about a year and a half ago, had 65,000 miles on the clock and it seemed to be in great order. Seemed to have been serviced by a Jag dealer. I've since put 15,000 miles on it (now at 80k) and roughly $3k in miscellaneous repairs. I broke the ridiculous radio antennae off not long after I got it. Then had a tranny pan leak/replacement. Then diff seals. Then a short on the main fuse block causing vert top to fail (simple rerewire). Next trip in was a short at tail light (another simple rewire). All this has added up and hasn't exactly been convenient.
But this trip into my independent dealer dealer has been different. Took it in for pulsing front brakes, and asked them to check steering fluid while they had it because just started to notice a bit of jitter at very slow speeds. Now, along with front brake job, apparently the rack and pinion is bad and front control control arms need to be replaced ($6100 quote).
I absolutely loved this car a year ago. She is one of the most beautiful cars on the road and makes me giggle every time I drop the top and press the right peddle. I really like my Indy shop and feel they've been honest and fair. But almost $10K in repairs on a $30K car in a year in a half just cannot continue for me.
Question: Have I just been unlucky? Am I overreacting, with thoughts of letting my beauty go to be driven by someone else? Or at her age and mileage, is this just the expected cost of enjoyment? I'm "heartbroken" and can't for the life of me think of what I will replace her with. Looking for some rational thought from others. 😥
But this trip into my independent dealer dealer has been different. Took it in for pulsing front brakes, and asked them to check steering fluid while they had it because just started to notice a bit of jitter at very slow speeds. Now, along with front brake job, apparently the rack and pinion is bad and front control control arms need to be replaced ($6100 quote).
I absolutely loved this car a year ago. She is one of the most beautiful cars on the road and makes me giggle every time I drop the top and press the right peddle. I really like my Indy shop and feel they've been honest and fair. But almost $10K in repairs on a $30K car in a year in a half just cannot continue for me.
Question: Have I just been unlucky? Am I overreacting, with thoughts of letting my beauty go to be driven by someone else? Or at her age and mileage, is this just the expected cost of enjoyment? I'm "heartbroken" and can't for the life of me think of what I will replace her with. Looking for some rational thought from others. 😥
#2
#3
Was told rack and pinion was $3100 USD for parts after multiple sourcing attempts. $1500 for the job (parts and labor) including R&P and control arms? I guess I should get a dealer quote and another shop for reference but $1500 seems unrealistic to me. I mean, I was shocked at $6100, but $1500?
The other point is that if I can expect a visit to a shop every other month, that isn't going to work for me either.
The other point is that if I can expect a visit to a shop every other month, that isn't going to work for me either.
#4
It all comes back to how trusting you were...
The XKR is rock solid well into 200,000 miles. And one of the lowest cost to own. In that there isnt much that needs maintenance and the parts are not expensive. The control arms as example are $150 for the parts.
But all that is predicated on how well it was maintained during its early years.
I am rightfully dubious of the slick used car salesman who sold you a car with 65k miles, for $30k no less. Was it a one owner car? Did you see if there was a Jaguar service history (while not necessary it will help answer the question as to what type of a person owned it and what you should expect going forward)
The XKR is rock solid well into 200,000 miles. And one of the lowest cost to own. In that there isnt much that needs maintenance and the parts are not expensive. The control arms as example are $150 for the parts.
But all that is predicated on how well it was maintained during its early years.
I am rightfully dubious of the slick used car salesman who sold you a car with 65k miles, for $30k no less. Was it a one owner car? Did you see if there was a Jaguar service history (while not necessary it will help answer the question as to what type of a person owned it and what you should expect going forward)
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guy (09-11-2017)
#5
#6
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
#7
Can someone recommend a good indy repair shop near Ben Sawyer's locale?
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
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#8
First I have to ask why they think the steering rack is bad? I have had six eight cylinder Jags and never had to replace a rack. (I had three XJSs that ALL needed new racks, but that is an expected problem with those cars.) Reading through the forums I can't remember seeing anyone else needing a new rack.
Assuming it really needs a new rack you can find rebuilt ones for $200. Jaguar XK, XJ Complete Power Steering Rack and Pinion Assembly | eBay
If you insist on a new Jaguar part, $3100 does not surprise me. Remember that "new" part is really NOS (New, Old Stock) made ten years ago. The rubber seals have been drying out for the last ten years in a warehouse somewhere.
I have never changed one on an XK, but can't believe it is any worse than an XJS, which I have done myself. Six hours, including beer and bathroom breaks. I am a retired engineer, not a mechanic.
Bottom line, a ten year old car with 80,000 miles will need some maintenance. IMHO in order to economically own these cars you need to be able to at least diagnose the problems and source parts yourself so that you can intelligently discus them with a mechanic. If you don't want to do that then they can become prohibitively expensive to drive. If you like doing that they are a bargain! I don't think you can get a base Honda Accord for what you paid for your car.
Assuming it really needs a new rack you can find rebuilt ones for $200. Jaguar XK, XJ Complete Power Steering Rack and Pinion Assembly | eBay
If you insist on a new Jaguar part, $3100 does not surprise me. Remember that "new" part is really NOS (New, Old Stock) made ten years ago. The rubber seals have been drying out for the last ten years in a warehouse somewhere.
I have never changed one on an XK, but can't believe it is any worse than an XJS, which I have done myself. Six hours, including beer and bathroom breaks. I am a retired engineer, not a mechanic.
Bottom line, a ten year old car with 80,000 miles will need some maintenance. IMHO in order to economically own these cars you need to be able to at least diagnose the problems and source parts yourself so that you can intelligently discus them with a mechanic. If you don't want to do that then they can become prohibitively expensive to drive. If you like doing that they are a bargain! I don't think you can get a base Honda Accord for what you paid for your car.
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017),
winstonsalemncxk (08-11-2017)
#9
Ben,
Hi from Winston-Salem! I can't speak for the rest of your repairs but when dealing with the suspension components, you can find quality parts by ordering the parts from Motorcraft/Ford. As another forum member pointed out, the upper control arms are manufactured in England and stamped "Jaguar" but available for $130-150 apiece rather than the $450-600+. Here's a link to that forum thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...l-arms-187168/
I just ordered my upper control arms at the much lower price, sold as Motorcraft/Ford but marked/stamped Jaguar. The OP of that thread has confirmed the parts are identical. Good luck!
Hi from Winston-Salem! I can't speak for the rest of your repairs but when dealing with the suspension components, you can find quality parts by ordering the parts from Motorcraft/Ford. As another forum member pointed out, the upper control arms are manufactured in England and stamped "Jaguar" but available for $130-150 apiece rather than the $450-600+. Here's a link to that forum thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...l-arms-187168/
I just ordered my upper control arms at the much lower price, sold as Motorcraft/Ford but marked/stamped Jaguar. The OP of that thread has confirmed the parts are identical. Good luck!
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robtroxel (08-12-2017)
#10
Ben, I think you're way to trusting of your mechanic. A slight judder at slow speeds could be as simple as a belt. It doesn't translate to a defective steering rack. That's a huge leap.
What's wrong with the control arms? Are the bushings the problem or the ball joint?
Bushings can be replaced? How did they demonstrate these things to be defective?
Consider a second and third opinion.
What's wrong with the control arms? Are the bushings the problem or the ball joint?
Bushings can be replaced? How did they demonstrate these things to be defective?
Consider a second and third opinion.
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
#11
Other users have found it more economical to replace the entire front upper arms with the part #'s MCS0E38 and MCS0E39 rather than having a shop repair the joints/bushings. The parts can be found online for around $130-150 each.
Ben, if you are searching for a second opinion, I can highly recommend HBI Auto in Mocksville, NC. They've been wonderful for servicing my XK. Very detailed and honest people, and real car enthusiasts. I second David's comments that researching/sourcing parts can end up saving quite a bit of cash.
Ben, if you are searching for a second opinion, I can highly recommend HBI Auto in Mocksville, NC. They've been wonderful for servicing my XK. Very detailed and honest people, and real car enthusiasts. I second David's comments that researching/sourcing parts can end up saving quite a bit of cash.
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
#12
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winstonsalemncxk (08-11-2017)
#13
XK's are somewhat notorious for steering wheel shudder at very low speeds and RPM thanks to the tires big contact patch and low performance from the pump at idle. Smeel and look at the PS fluid. If it's burnt smelling or brown / metallic in color you have problems. If not at worst I'd change the fluid a couple times to get as much old out as possible.
Per the arms, make them show you what's wrong. I'm amazed at how many folks go into repair shops and blindly follow their advice. Ask them what the tolerance is and make them show you in the Alldata program or service manual. A lot of stuff is subjective and it sounds like they have a solution that's looking for a problem.
Brakes are pretty simple as well. I pulled mine apart yesterday for paint and they're really easy to work on. Plus realize that the XK shares the same suspension as the S type, XJ, Lincoln LS and Ford T bird.
Per the arms, make them show you what's wrong. I'm amazed at how many folks go into repair shops and blindly follow their advice. Ask them what the tolerance is and make them show you in the Alldata program or service manual. A lot of stuff is subjective and it sounds like they have a solution that's looking for a problem.
Brakes are pretty simple as well. I pulled mine apart yesterday for paint and they're really easy to work on. Plus realize that the XK shares the same suspension as the S type, XJ, Lincoln LS and Ford T bird.
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#14
The shuddering is a well reported issue and doesn't cause any real problem. I have had it on my 2010 since I got it. Originally changed power steering fluid and flushed and it did help. It is now happening again after about 70,000 miles since the first change, and next week will flush again. Unless you see fluid gushing out or can't turn the steering wheel, don't get sucked into a $3000 steering rack change.
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
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Ben Sawyer (09-05-2017)
#16
Question: Have I just been unlucky? Am I overreacting, with thoughts of letting my beauty go to be driven by someone else? Or at her age and mileage, is this just the expected cost of enjoyment? I'm "heartbroken" and can't for the life of me think of what I will replace her with. Looking for some rational thought from others. 😥
#18
Hello Ben:
There are several good posts here for the acquisition of parts for your car at greatly reduced costs. Take advantage of the information and suggestions.
Since you're in the Mid-Atlantic states and a large city like WS-NC, do some research to see if you have any British Car clubs in your immediate area. In most of these clubs, the clubs use a master mechanic that could be a referral to you. In most cases these British Car mechanic's work for lower wages in the $35 to $40 per hour range.
In our Brit Car club, we have a top notch member (Master Mechanic) who works exclusively on Brit Cars. I had our master mechanic complete a full brake fluid change for $40.00 plus the Pentosin Dot 4 Brake Fluid which I supplied via Amazon.
As stated, if you can source your own parts that is a huge monetary advantage. Then again, if you are not mechanically inclined and have to depend on advice from a repair shop, expect to get a few other opinions and most likely expect to get taken on the price. Once you pull into any shop with a Jaguar, these guys think you're a rich cat and have money to spend.
I would research the idea of British Car clubs for a referral to an independent mechanic that is well known to the Brit Car owners. They are out there to be found.
There are several good posts here for the acquisition of parts for your car at greatly reduced costs. Take advantage of the information and suggestions.
Since you're in the Mid-Atlantic states and a large city like WS-NC, do some research to see if you have any British Car clubs in your immediate area. In most of these clubs, the clubs use a master mechanic that could be a referral to you. In most cases these British Car mechanic's work for lower wages in the $35 to $40 per hour range.
In our Brit Car club, we have a top notch member (Master Mechanic) who works exclusively on Brit Cars. I had our master mechanic complete a full brake fluid change for $40.00 plus the Pentosin Dot 4 Brake Fluid which I supplied via Amazon.
As stated, if you can source your own parts that is a huge monetary advantage. Then again, if you are not mechanically inclined and have to depend on advice from a repair shop, expect to get a few other opinions and most likely expect to get taken on the price. Once you pull into any shop with a Jaguar, these guys think you're a rich cat and have money to spend.
I would research the idea of British Car clubs for a referral to an independent mechanic that is well known to the Brit Car owners. They are out there to be found.
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#19
#20
TL;DR To drive old top-shelf cars you need to have deep pockets or deep knowledge.