Today was the third time I've noticed the trans does not always downshift to a lower gear right around 30 mph (I think when its in 3rd) unless I really push the pedal almost to the floor. Anyone notice this? It's almost kind of dangerous as today I needed to get out of the way of a car veering into my lane and when I pressed the pedal about 1/2 way the car just kind of slowly accelerated with no auto downshift. I tried it again several times and the subsequent three required almost full throttle to achieve a downshift at that speed/gear and then it seemed to get better as I kept trying it. Wondering if this a feature/function of an adaptive trans ala MB as I don’t normally drive aggressively but also thinking one shouldnt have to get so deep into the throttle to get a downshift. Again this is at about 30 mph and I believe while the car is in third.

 

I haven't, and down-shifts always seems to be very responsive to throttle. You weren't in Sport mode, or had touched the paddle shifters by chance?

Bruce

 

Nope. I'm beginning to give up on this car too many problems...going to meet with the GM on Wed and if they don't offer me a replacement car I'm out...

 

I expressed the same issue here before, thinking that my downshifts, in general, were not crisp enough. They, at times, required too deep of an accelerator press, more than what I would think is reasonable.

My solution is to drive the car even on the highways in the DS (auto sport) mode where the transmission is far more responsive. The owner's manual recommends against highway driving in the DS mode but, I called the dealer's service and they say it is just fine and, it is working for me. Now the transmission does not allow the RPMs to drop all the way down to near idle but, downshitfs even if just slowing and not even applying the gas.

Upshifts are generally occur in the high 2K RPM ranges, depending on your driving habits. Sometimes, after some spirited driving the tranny "learns" to keep the RPMs up and will not upshift until higher. In that case I "teach" the tranny to shift lower by engaging the cruise control. It is kind of fun to play with the transmission software and figure out what it will do under what circumstances. It is, actually, quite well done. I am beginning to understand why in one auto test they called it the best auto transmission, period.

Albert

 

Hey Albert thanks for the info. I wonder why some here like Bruce aren't having this issue? Mine is only occurring at a very limited speed and gear, yours too? If our cars have an adaptive trans like MB's it should learn one's driving style but something is not right here as this is not normal.

Driving around in sport etc would be ok but geez I'm avg 12.3 mpgs in very conservative mostly city style driving; I can only imagine what it would be in sport mode lol

 

I have 2 suggestions:

Consider the possibility that it is an adaptive situation where perhaps you drive gently to an extreme, and it just didn't know what to do with the call for quicker acceleration at that particular speed and rpm. Then as you repeatedly tried it again it started to learn and responded progressively better. I'd be surprised if that is the case, and while that is hardly suitable, it is something you can try to diagnose yourself...and perhaps rule out when you discuss with the dealership.

I very seldom drive on highways above 55 mph (90 kph) because of low speed limits and strong enforcement in our area. Perhaps that's why I never miss the opportunity to use quick and forceful throttle application to test the ability of the e-diff and rear tires to maintain grip at least twice every time I drive it. I never use Sport mode, or the paddles, so my tranny ECU would have learned that routine in D mode. So maybe get out and drive it like you're a 20 year old, blow out some cobb webbs, enjoy the symphony of exhaust sounds... and hopefully you'll marvel at the uncannily responsive throttle I've always attributed to the direct injection and responsive tranny. If your condition doesn't allow you to do that then maybe make somebody else's day by asking them to do it for you. Any quiet stretch of road where you can accelerate briskly for short bursts from low speed should do it.

The second suggestion is to re-examine your attitude about how to get your vehicle issues resolved at the dealer. I fear that neither the dealer nor Jaguar will accept your demands for replacement unless you have given them repeated opportunities to fix each issue. I think the Lemon Law requires 3 failed attempts by the dealer to protect themselves from unreasonable customer expectations and demands. You've posted exhaustively about your car quirks and problem, and while we certainly know about them and your state of mind, I have the impression that your dealer does not, and you haven't given them repeated opportunities to fix these outstanding issues.

You probably don't have sufficient documentation of the problems and repair attempts to convince a third party that you've made a reasonable effort to get the repairs done. You maintain that they're all good guys, you haven't pushed them very hard, and they might feel like the victim with your replacement demands. Weeks between dealer visits probably doesn't help get their attention, or get your car fixed. So if you think you've complained more to us than the dealer then you might want to change that, or run the risk of repeating the situation... even if they do replace the car.

If on the other hand I'm wrong about all that, then at least you'll have that argument clear in your mind for when you confront them tomorrow. But documenting everything can be essential when dealings go off the rails, and they may not provide you that ammunition willingly. Be prepared to discuss hiring legal representation if they are uncooperative in any regard because they probably figure you'll bail out rather than become sufficiently aggressive...and they'd be right.

Good luck,

Bruce

 

At times I feel like cars these days are more of "software devices" than hardware. The transmission is the perfect example for that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your or mine transmissions, it is the "frigging" software that makes them shift like that. Bruce is likely correct in saying that your tranny shifts as it has learned from your previous driving habits.

I know that is true with me, as my XK is a freeway cruiser for me, generally loping away at near 2000 constant RPMs with hardly much heavy application of the gas pedal. My average MPG of 26.6 for the past 3000 miles gives you an idea how this car is driven.

Still, when I get to a small incline I would welcome a crisper downshift. Just as you describe, at times, I have to push the accelerator way down in order to respond with a shift, by which time I just as well flip the manual shift level. It does not behave like that every single time, which simply means that there are a bunch of variables in the software that determines when and how the thing shifts. It would be interesting to actually read the software for its logic conditions on shifting.

I did take my car to the dealer once, asking them to tighten up the shifting but, they told me that this was normal and I should "teach" the transmission if more aggressive shifting was preferred. I kind of disagree with that because I may be just freeway driving the car at super easy rates where the tranny "learns" to react lazily but, I would still like it to respond with an instant downshift when needed, as in moderate passing conditions or moderate uphill conditions. Some of my other car's tranmission's shift much crisper but, they don't have all those features (DS, effective manual paddles) that this transmission have.

I have a feeling that if you just grow used to the car and its peculiar behaviors, you'll figure out what it takes to drive it to your satisfaction. I don't blame you for not wanting to use DS in mostly city driving where the aggressive auto downshifts can actually feel bothersome, not mentioning about the effects on your already sagging MPG numbers.

Albert

 

My opinion of the transmission is very different. I mostly drive in sport/manual mode. One of my only complaints with this car is that it will kick down a gear at times even in manual mode. Also, in auto/non-sport it is one of the most aggressive auto transmissions I have driven- rpm's are high between shifts and it's quick to downshift with acceleration. However, most of my past experience is with manual transmissions.

 

Thanks for the replies gents. Tomorrow is my meeting with the GM and hopefully we will come to an amicable resolution. It's not a problem for me to bring the car in for some of these items 2 more times to qualify for lemon law. If I’m wrong about the dealership then it will be my last time doing business with them and I'll stick with the German brands as they too are problematic but their quality numbers are no where near Jag's 23rd place out of 27 and trending lower. I think if Jaguar and or its dealerships are able to convert a long time German or Japanese luxury buyer over they'd be crazy not to do everything they can to keep them especially knowing how difficult it is was to get them to convert in the first place.

 

I hope you get everything resolved to your satisfaction. One thing I'll mention, though, is that I put no credence into those "satisfaction/quality" surveys whatsoever. That's because I have no idea how the survey was designed, what the sample size was, who the people were who responded, or how the results were tabulated and analyzed. Heck, if I just took a survey on this forum, then the results would be 99.9% incredibly favorable for Jag. (your experience being the lone negative one.) However, if I was in your shoes, then the fact that everyone else in this forum absolutely loves their car, would still be meaningless, because your own personal experience has been horrible.

Good luck tomorrow!

 

Thanks Michael...I hope I will be pleasantly surprised as I've endured far more than my fair share of problems. If things don't go well I may be bidding you guys a very fond fare well.

 

Amicable resolution? That sounds like you won't be asking them to fix, nor expecting that they would even be able to fix the problems within another two visits. You may have put off getting them moving on your issues so long that you've convinced yourself that they can't be resolved.

Quote:

If I’m wrong about the dealership then it will be my last time doing business with them and I'll stick with the German brands as they too are problematic but their quality numbers are no where near Jag's 23rd place out of 27 and trending lower. I think if Jaguar and or its dealerships are able to convert a long time German or Japanese luxury buyer over they'd be crazy not to do everything they can to keep them especially knowing how difficult it is was to get them to convert in the first place.

Jaguar has done a great job of attracting and satisfying previous German car buyers according to endless owner comments in this forum.

Despite knowing that the J.D. Power survey doesn't include the XK/XKR because of insufficient survey numbers and that there's no evidence in this forum of any 2010+ XK/XKR vehicle issues, but there are common XF and XJ issues that the survey would be based on, you seem to repeatedly use these survey results to rationalize your issues, and" trending" I suspect to predict a poor future for yourself with Jaguar.

I don't see this ending well because you have now lost faith in the XKR, with Jaguar as a manufacturer, and it sounds like the dealer is in a no-win situation whether he wants to try to fix the car or not. Either way I think you want out. I was hoping a reasonable attitude could help when I suggested...

" The second suggestion is to re-examine your attitude about how to get your vehicle issues resolved at the dealer. I fear that neither the dealer nor Jaguar will accept your demands for replacement unless you have given them repeated opportunities to fix each issue. I think the Lemon Law requires 3 failed attempts by the dealer to protect themselves from unreasonable customer expectations and demands. You've posted exhaustively about your car quirks and problem, and while we certainly know about them and your state of mind, I have the impression that your dealer does not, and you haven't given them repeated opportunities to fix these outstanding issues."

That doesn't seem to be what you want, and if that is the case, then hopefully you can focus the conversation with the GM on how to get you out of the car rather than ending up with a repaired or replaced car that you just don't want or have faith in. At this point I guess that's the only thing to be resolved. I just can't see them agreeing to a full refund or replacement at this point, but maybe them buying it back at some negotiated price would be the amicable resolution you have in mind. Taking a financial hit is probably infinitely better than continuing in a relationship that can't be saved, for both parties.

All the best tomorrow,

Bruce

 

Thanks for the good wishes. If they offer me a replacement then I'd gladly give the XKR another chance.

 

It sounds like you have more trouble than most of us, but like someone else mentioned earlier, its surprising how there's apparently no such thing as a perfect car. It seems cars from all brands turn out to have some annoying little 'foibles' when you know enough about them (annoyingly, for some reason I don't see them in the show room. It usually takes me having to buy one then about another 5 minutes before I start spotting them). I can say from experience and research that all the top German brands have their faults and quirks too, as do Lexus. Funnily enough, the most reliable car I ever had was an old Ferrari 308 GTS, which everyone else warned me that it would be breaking down all the time.

Should you not get offered a replacement, I'd be interested to know what car make(s)/model(s) you'll be considering next?

 

You're right, the short test drive at the dealership never reveals the cars problems, and in my case it took a full day of driving for these to manifest.

I really hope they do offer a replacement so I can stay with the XKR but if not I will buy the all new alloy 13 SL and pay to have the drivers seated fitted with a true cooling unit as its already vented and has a massage function . The new SL equipped well would be about $115k, down on hp but way up on torque (516lb ft) I'd gain a folding hard top, better trans, better mpg's and a host of better technology; the interior is also much improved.

We'll see how things go, my appt is at 4pm EST