I would think that if car engines with 10 micron filters are adversely affected by frequent dust storms then gas turbines having hundreds if not thousands times more mass air flow and NO filters would be devastated.

In 30 years of experience, such engines were rarely seen from areas outside of obvious desert conditions. I've visited at least 40 US states and spent many months at a time in the midwest. Can't remember seeing even one storm in all those years.

They're unheard of in the Eastern US and all of Canada.

 

Boy that was a good laugh.
Are we talking about two stroke Jet engines with the huge oil pans.
How many liters of oil do they hold? I am attaching a cutaway, enlighten us fools where the oil and air mix.

 

Lets see how long it takes you to come up with the logic that supports your point of view and makes mockery of mine.

Like you I should also deduce that if a jet engine can suck an entire rainstorm through it, my car would be fine swallowing small amounts of water through the intake.

 

Since the average altitude of commercial jets are well beyond 20,000 feet, (and there is a reason why) and most airborne particulates like dust, soot and smog reside in heights generally less than 5000 feet, your comparison, while it sounds logical to you, is nothing more than BS. This is because at altitudes from the ground up to 5000 feet GND there is a large amount of various other invisible particles and normal dust with particle sizes around 1-10 microns. This is the same size as volcanic ash as well, and all aircraft avoid at all cost this extreme hazard.

Concerning the eastern portion of the US, you're incorrect on that as well. The first light rain after a week or so of no rain, will rain mud all over your vehicle, and why is that? Airborne particulates. Again, you cannot see with the naked eye particulate matter smaller than 40 micron.

Rather than trying to come and troll the thread, why don't you educate yourself. If you spent half as much time educating yourself, as you do trolling we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you want to use aviation engines as your example, why don't you read up on piston based aircraft maintenance requirements and why. (especially oil contamination from airborne particulates)

 

There is a point to all this.
If you are prolonging service due to silly inferences such as you dont have dust in your country or how come aircraft are not affected by it. Its wishful thinking.
The only real data point we have right now is that there is lot of grey area when it comes to determining service intervals. Thats one of the reasons that manufacturers are putting computers into cars to figure it out. An astute owner knows that when there is doubt, you dont increase risk, you reduce by siding on side of caution.

My only significant contribution to this thread is that 75% of the known problems with the 5.0 DI engine, are all related to oil. I hope you are better at doing the math. Keep it clean and you will be buying yourself time. Also All the Honda, Toyota, Hyundai (aka ultra reliables) have also traced the problem back to oil. And never before in automotive history has a problem been so universal. The problem being prematurely failing timing chains- on a Honda no less.

Do a google search for timing chain problem and put the name of a big manufacturer in front of it. They are all experiencing it like never before. If it has VVT, DI and a hydraulic tensioner, its blowing a timing chain under 50k. But not all owners of the same model. Could service interval habits be the difference? If you had to insure against it, clean oil is the way to go.

 

You have been sometimes. Not always. And poor for profitability.

Regardless, I think I'll stay well away from the 5.0 DI engine(s). Don't need one, don't need the unquantifiable (to me) risks.

 

'Two stroke' jet engines. I guess that pretty well nails the level of technical knowledge.

All gas turbines have a secondary air system which bleeds high pressure air off one or two ports of the compressor, some of which is used to pressurize the cabin but also to pressurize the bearing cavities. This air is unfiltered. Except obvious desert areas of the world as mentioned above, dirt and dust accumulation in the oil is a non-issue. Oil sampling, where any contamination would be detected, is mandatory to be eligible for most modern maintenance programs. Comparing samples from operators in (say) the Gulf States to North America or Europe is very revealing and makes a mockery of the idea that road going car engines suffer from dust ingestion.

The straws the two of you are grabbing at are all gone.

 

The truth is slowly being flushed out. I made the same innocent mistake on another tread and made no qualms about apologizing. The difference between the 4.2 and 5.0 is about 30 years. most importantly its a brand new technology to all car makers. No proven standard has yet been established by anyone. Now you see how inconsiderate it is for a 4.2 owner to tell a 5.0 owner to pay no attention to Jaguar recommendations no less. Frankly, they should have no input because they have no experience.

 

The 4.2 came out in 2003, the 5.0 in 2009. That's six years not 30.

No one has said to ignore Jag recommendations. The discussion has been a claim that 80% of owners cannot follow the Jag recommendations and should cut the interval in half . The concept that any OEM would issue a schedule that four out of five owners cannot follow and should have read some fine print is ludicrous in it's own right. The lawyers would have a field day.

There's been page after page of discussion of posters asking for any evidence that indeed the halved interval is required or of some benefit large or small. We could all learn something if this was presented.

No evidence whatsoever has been produced.

 

the 4.2 is essentially been around for 30 years.
it has no new strategies.

the 5.0 does almost everything different from engines with 30 year old technologies. Namely it relies on the timing chain to drive a ultra high pressure fuel pump. it has very sophisticated oil strategy and high tolerances. pedestrians should read that as intolerance. And for the worse, it does not clean the engine as well as older tech.

there is greater difference between 4.2 and 5.0 than 4.2 and Model T. technically speaking.

 

A few posts further up, it became apparent that the familiarity level with gas turbines is low. It appears to be the same or worse with the 4.2 engine.

It is part of the AJ family which came from a clean sheet of paper for the 1997 model year appearingas the 4L AJ26 engine. It shares nothing in common with any predecessor as Jaguar didn't make V8s...........

It was greatly updated and redesigned as the 4.2L AJ33 for the 2003 MY.

To state that it consists of 30 year old materials and methods kills any remaining credibility.

 

Your logic would make sense to you. And your credibility would make sense to you. The rest of wonder how someone who has never owned nor serviced a 5.0 can have such credibility to insult us. I wish I had your nerve in my tooth.Yes we should all concede to your experience and qualifications. Meanwhile, I may have to fly away from this cuckoos nest for a little while.

 

All you need to do to regain some credibility and win us over is show any proof. Even a little bit would be a start.....

 

However, brilliant study of misconceptions. Because a jet engine can ingest hail, water, dust and insects. So can your car which operates on the same principle. why aren't they using an air filter. Indeed. please try it and report back.

 

Proof of what Sir Mickey? that a Jaguar 5.0 has seen no problems with 1 year oil changes in long term testing in less than ideal conditions ? why dont you post proof that supports that. instead of merely providing contrarianism.

We are more cautious because no such evidence exist, prove me wrong. Show me where you get your enlightenment from. Other than your logic, please.

 

But they can and sometimes do...............

 

while I have been a sportsman and entertained the most irrelevant questions. it must be asked for the sake of a sanity test; what concern is any of this to you mate? are you just hypothetically playing along? i.e if you had the engine in question or a qualified mechanic, this is what you would suggest.

you do understand that the problem is a bit more real for us. And entirely make belief for you. I hope you can sympathize that we are having to digress due to this fantasy role playing. think about it for a few days, I'll check back.

 

I agree, however, I would use what you say here, to actually test the oil from your conditions, rather than walking blindly.

Maybe, six months is still not soon enough? Maybe its sooner than you really need to.

For me personally, I live with high dust, sustained 110F temperatures in summer, and sub freezing in winter.

 

I agree that an oil test will tell you best when your oil is dirty and spent.

But it doesnt tell me my concern if sludge is starting to form. And clogging up the tiny pores. A bi-annual flush does take the doubt out of it. Call it peace of mind.

 

One other consideration for people who want to have their Jaguars at original specs beyond 100,000 miles. Look at the following link- its totally unbiased, its a turbo manufacturer showing how difficult it is to clean an engine once sludge begins to form. Brilliantly documented, including what kind of oil changes it had. No this will not happen to us, we dont have high heat turbos. But it shows the extreme end of the spectrum. And in our high-tech engines, even 10% of this (which is quite feasible) would not be a good thing for performance.
http://media.wix.com/ugd/bff3d2_1307...c73ddde15f.pdf