I'm very tempted to put some of these in the XKR just to see how they sound, only problem is I don't have any laying around and i'm not keen on pulling the XJR apart just for "fun".

Same speakers are used in the premium system in the X-Type too, if I find some for the right price, i might give it a go.

 

No worries. I understand.

 

Ok, to answer your question regarding what EQ/Boost is being applied by default. I am going to answer it so that non-techical guys who are not on this thread get it too.

In previous radios, in any car, when you turned down the bass and treble to flat, that's when the stereo sounded best as there was no boost nor attenuation. At that point the amp or headunit was putting out a fullrange signal- to all channels!

Today, when you have the eq settings to flat, there is still tons of EQ boost still being applied.... in 2 different ways!

1. If you look at the driver from the door, you will see that it is in a very small enclosure- in the past the entire door chamber was the enclosure, many times larger than the current enclosure. The only way to make any speaker work according to the laws of physics in that confined of an enclosure is to apply tremendous amount of digital EQ or DSP (digital signal processing)

So whats being said is that there is a baseline EQ on a chip that is specific to making that driver work. (now if you put in a more efficient driver, you will hear some improvement because that equalization may also be helping this new driver, however it will be wrong for the most part and full of phase shifts)

2. There is a second stage of DSP, and this is where B&W comes in. A stereo system by B&W in our car is just a marketing effort. So this should not reflect poorly on them. When they are invited to add their touch to this audio system, whose parts will be supplied by Harmon and Philips, all they can do is cabin correction (room correction) via DSP. This is a non-defeatable effect to create ambience. This effect, lets call it 'hall effect' residues beneath whatever effect you might further select, such as Stero or 3 Channel sound.

As a creator of the ultimate in sounds, and having used all the best firms providing DSP, can save you time in informing that there is no such thing as perfect sound when DSP is used. Worse, as in this case, when used excessively it simply sounds terrible.

In Fact the DSP setting on the unit only gives you the option of DSP'ing for 'All' or 'Driver' there is no Off.

 

Ummm.... which car are you referring to here? I took the door card off the XKR when I pulled out the speakers to inspect them.

The entire door cavity is the enclosure for the bass driver in the door.







I actually put my hand & forearm inside and had a feel around in there, it's not a "small enclosure", it's definitely the whole door cavity.

But one interesting thing to note on the X150, is that inner door panel is made from a sheet of aluminium. On the other alloy-body Jags like the X350, X351 and F-Type, this inner panel is made of thick moulded plastic.

You know one of the "tricks" that car audio installers do is to line all these panels with dynamat or some other dampening material. Seems a bit redundant to me when the panel is plastic, but here it's metal...

 

Dynamat is a noise blocker mostly for exterior road noise, but filling the panel with wool insulation will help with controlling enclosure reflections (standing waves) which obviously affect the sound generated on the front side of the driver.

 

Dynomat also prevents the metal panels from adding their own resonance to the cavity. You can feel this in a before and after by playing louder music and feeling the outer door skin. It adds mass to thin metal.

 

So in 66 total posts so far, I've heard...
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah"Can't Do Anything"blahblahblahblahblah....

 

I had no difficulty mounting 6.5 inch Focals there.

I'm seeing some intelligent folks trying their darnedest to reverse engineer a buggered up and complex system, while enlightening people like you and I.

Sit back, take an Alprazolam, and let them work on it.

 

Speaking of Focal, how about these?

Focal Full Active 2-Way Component Speaker Kit - ULTIMA

 

Take it from the horse's mouth, if you could solve this problem in a simple thread you could make millions right now! An entire industry full of the sharpest minds have been suffering from being locked out of the aftermarket industry.

But we if we dissect the gargantuan problem, we will be ready for all the solutions as they are materializing. And its nearly all here guys, I have waited years!

Cambo,
Its not enough space mate for a naturally aspirated 6.5" or another way to view it, in the past cars had the driver mounted on the door card, allowing the entire cavity to be the rear baffle and the door card itself as an extension of the front baffle.

 

I DO remember some things from my adventures way-back-when in my days of building Home Speakers. Each model driver is designed for a specific-sized enclosure, be it either ported or not-ported, baffled or not-baffled. Volume of each enclosure changed with the size and length of the port, and some respond critically to changes in either total volume or incorrect (or no) porting. Having the interior of the entire door chamber act as the enclosure is an easy way to get the wrong responses to any driver.
I surely can't remember all the formulas, references and specifications I used in my younger days, but I still remember that they EXIST. These are mostly for larger cones and throws, but even tweeters have requirements for the enclosure. I do remember long days at my desk figuring out different box sizes for each driver, and putting separate boxes for each inside a larger one for the woofer made it a PITA to refigure the net volume for the largest driver. As I said, not nearly as critical for small cones and short throws. Still matters though.

 

I'm waiting to see if Cambo's successful with the XF amp install. From what I've been reading in this thread, that may have the most cost effective promise.

 

I still think unlocking the audio magic is as simple as rewriting the Alpine / B+W equalization. These cars sound as they do by design. We can select the program and focal location but not the individual speaker equalization. Which sucks because anything we put in place will still be driving under the same 'tune' as the stock speakers.

To me, to logically understand what's going on you need to reverse engineer the original tunes via a test frequency CD, good calibrated microphone and a spectrum analyzer. See what DB levels are produced as a system across the spectrum in each 'tune' and then start isolating speaker groups to see which are contributing what. Once you know what audio is being produced, look at the speaker inputs for how hard they are being driven at differing frequencies.

With that data you would have a base line map of the car's audio profile and would know (instead of feel) what gains (or losses) each change represents.

 

Yup, I've actually been tempted to dive into this head first. The hardware costs about $320, and I'd love to have it along side my o-scope and signal generator.
I just stopped by my local car audio store and asked if they had the needed hardware, but alas, as I suspected, it would take a trip to Seattle to find a true pro audio shop.
The call is a tough one, as I'm unemployed and living off of savings, so the project timing is pretty poor. I want badly to help (and I love audio toys!), so I may pull the trigger seeing we seem to have so much interest from the group.
Lemme get drunk an think about it a little more!

 

I'd assume there are various low budget ways to do this. Making a CD for the early cars or uploading an audio file to an ipod would get the sound generated. Use a phone to record video / audio would get it close. Then use a puter program to sort out the sound level at each frequency. I know some cameras filter the mic to get rid of low frequency stuff. I think as long as you use the same test equipment and procedures as well as understand their limitation that you will get viable data.

I still think 90% of the positive results will be trial and error.

 

I hope the audio engineers at Jaguar are fired since long ago!:-D Even my daughters cheap Peugeot 206 from 2005 has a lot better sound!

 

Q+C will probably wet himself but here are a few less expensive options. Figure between the two of them and an online tone generator it shouldn't be too difficult to get something readable. This was just from a couple moments browsing the Ali...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-2-...65b73353&tpp=1

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-5m...StoreLevelAB=4

 

Well hey, learned something new tonight.

After cross-checking the AAM (Audio Amplifier Module) software from several X150's, it seems that Jag did some random things with the software versions.

My 2009MY XKR has a different AAM software version in it than the 2007 XKR with Alpine system, and some 2010MY XKR's with B&W system.

Actually it turns out that the 2010's have the same amp software as the 2007's.

For whatever reason my 2009MY has a different version.

This is not the first time something wierd like this has popped up, you might recall previous threads about the touchscreen software, and the latest one being the voice controls.

But, I have identified the software in the 2007 (and the 2010's we checked) and i'll load this to mine and see what it sounds like.

However, this is a funny one... based on the part numbers of the softwares, what's in my 2009 is the "B&W" version, what's in the 2010's is the "Alpine" version.

It just keeps on getting stranger the closer I look...

 

Maybe because yours is a Portfolio??

I've been reading this thread out of interest but TBH, I'm fine with how the B&W system sounds in my 2010. However, Audio test is my day job. I actually work for HARMAN but I don't work on their auto systems or speakers. That said, I have the equipment to get a spectrum scan using pink noise played thru the head unit (via CD). Micing would be tricky because you would want to place stereo mics at ear level and ear direction to get the most accurate data. I could start with a cardioid mic in the driver's seat at head level with engine at idle and see what comes of it to start, and go from there.

Problem is I''m out of town and won't be able to get to this for at least a week.

Let me know if you're interested.

 

It wont give us the full picture, as you alluded.
No microphone can hear what the human ear hears.
This is what caused the problem in the first place.

Some of the worst audio gear I have seen is where a microphone was used to mimic human ears and correction was applied based on the inaccurate measurement.