I had my XKR since 2009 but have only lurked intermittently on the board. I come on now to announce the car's demise. Smashed it to bits yesterday on the A3 Autobahn near Zürich, Switzerland.

The weather got pretty bad and the car aquaplaned and spun. I applied full steering lock and managed to bring it back into some kind of control but it was a power-slide at a 45 degree angle. The front wheels were aligned to the direction of momentum and I was still able to apply full braking power, but the road was curving and there was no way I could keep it on the road.

The spin-out occurred at around 110kph and by the time I saw that I was inevitably going into the ditch I think I'd managed to bleed off enough speed to bring it down to about 30, at which point I applied opposite lock to spin the car head-on into the dirt, rather than sideways.

The debris cloud was like a bomb had gone off, and the entire front bumper assembly went flying. The car lifted about two metres into the air, continued a slow spin, and landed on it's wheels in the mud so gently that I didn't even feel the impact. Inside of the car all I saw was that my parking pass lying on the dashboard had flown onto the passenger seat.


Wrecked XKR | The Skankworks

It's not the best picture of the car, but you can see the tracks in the dirt. I went about 4m off the road, and the sod of turf at the end of the right-hand track is most likely where the bumper was ripped off. Much of the other debris appeared to be deformable plastic components from behind the bumper, designed to absorb energy.

You can just about see in the picture that the lights, windows, bonnet, and panels all appear to be in place. So it might be just superficial damage. The wheels were filled with mud, but the track marks don't appear to be deep enough to have been able to cause any damage to the wheel alignment.

I'll have it taken to the garage tomorrow for a report.

Personally, I would prefer them to write the damn thing off rather than have the hassle of repair and resale. After the way it lost control I am not all that keen on driving it any more, and it was never really anything more to me than metal. I find it difficult to form an emotional attachment to metal, with the exception of the metal band on my third-finger.

The driver protection was pretty good though. Although the impact was enough to rip off the bumper (you can see the guy in yellow carrying it, still in one piece) it didn't trigger the pedestrian protection or the air-bags, and I personally didn't feel any g-forces at all, and the seat belt wasn't needed to restrain me (I had my phone in the pocket under the seat belt and would have felt it if there had been any pressure on it). It appears that the soft mud, and the collapsible bumper assembly absorbed enough of the kinetic energy to protect the car and the driver.

It's a pity, sure, and have there had been a hard shoulder on the road I would have enough space to let the slide bleed off momentum without hitting the dirt. It was also responsive enough, at the last moment, for me to reverse the lock and, as you can see, make a pretty good job of turning a side-ways slide into a head-on collision.

But, it was the cars initial failure that caused this. Don't know why yet, but I was driving in a straight line, at constant speed, around 1500 RPM/110kph, and I've never in 30 years had a sudden spin occur under those conditions. I've driven this car over ice, snow, slush, and every horrible surface the Alps can throw at you and it always been glued to the road, with the exception of the occasional fish-tail or under-steer that only ever happened when I was driving it to the limit.

Anyone else have such an experience of the car suddenly going mental while you're driving it like a little old lady?

 

So sorry to have you stop by only to report the sad event. Gotta be tough...

Sadly, "accidents" are always attributed to a minor chain of errors, that eventually add up to a major crisis. If only one of the smaller items was avoided, so would the crisis.

Very few cars in history have a reputation of "going mental", and the Jag is certainly not one of them. I have not yet heard of the XK series showing fatigue in any critical component, not that a first isn't possible.

If tires/driver/car were in optimal condition, then maybe you hit oil on the roadway?

Keep us posted to your findings.

Vince

 

Well, what makes it tougher is that I almost sold the car in May but decided to keep it for "a few more months".

Lost me job last month, me car this month, and I am starting to wonder why my wife is still with me ;-)

But, "stuff happens", so to speak.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Hello Shankworks,

How were your tires and what are they? how many miles? in case...
really sorry to hear that. Hopefully you will replace it soon.

 

Sorry to hear about your accident. Can't be a pleasant experience to lose control at that sort of speed unexpectedly but good to hear you came out in one piece.

only thing I can think off other than mechanical faults would be a balding tyre not being able to cope with the amount of water on the road. Similar happened to me in a corner at speed. quite sure it was down to the water and only 3mm tyre left. Lucky for me the car caught itself.

hope it all works out for you in the near future.

 

Sorry to hear about the car's demise and your run of bad luck. I am glad you made it out of this accident; evidently without a scratch.

 

First thing that springs to mind is tyres?

The water on the road doesn't look too bad, but don't know what it was like as you had the accident.

A few mm of standing water, a sudden movement, a dab of brakes .....any of the above on tyres with poor tread depth could easily cause this.

Hopefully that wasn't the case?

Sorry to hear about your job and now the car, glad you're ok though

 

Sorry about your car and your job. It was gratifying to read that you weren't hurt. As for cause, if I was a betting man I'd say a bad combination of worn tires, rain, and torque.

 

I totalled a car once when I was in highschool almost 20 years ago...very similar situation with me sliding sideways down the road at about 45 MPH...but a van was coming in the opposite direction and ended up nailing us, spinning me off the road completely. The force of impact was so hard, my aftermarket radio deck flew out the rear window and was 15 feet behind the car. I am lucky it didnt knock my or my passengers head off.

We were fine, just bruised up and cut, but I knew exactly what happend. I was so poor at the time and my car was front wheel drive but the front tires were almost bald...so a week prior, I had put the bald front tires on the rear wheels and brought the better rear tires to the front, the whole time thinking I would have better traction for a short time until I could save up for some new tires.

Well, the first day it rained, I was going about 45 MPH on a wet road, and there was a very slight bend to the left...suddenly in a split second, no traction and we are sliding, and I am at full opposite lock and nothing...a few seconds before impact I pulled the e-brake hoping for more rotation otherwise we would have been completely t-boned. Luckly this worked and it wasnt a direct impact. My passanger was knocked unconscious, and I remember waking him up by slapping his cheeks like they do in the movies...lol.

Anyway, ever since then...my tires have been pristine on every car I have owned since. The tires are one of the most important part of your car, and the only thing between your car and the road. The if it is wet and the tires fail...your car is going to fail too, no matter the electronic goodies it may be packing.

Glad you are okay!

 

Glad you are okay!

I agree with you--I'd rather have it totaled than have it fixed and have to try to resell it and/or deal with nagging issues caused by the accident.

 

Thanks for everybody's kind replies (makes me wonder why I didn't join the board earlier).

The rear tires were worn, much more than the front. Examination shows excessive wear on the inside of one of the rear tires (Pirelli P-Zeros) that was pretty difficult to see when they were attached to the car - but obvious once the wheel was off. That will likely get me a ticket as it was below the limit, and the insurance will naturally focus on that - if I have to make a claim.

The speed at impact was fairly low and I managed to hit head on, so the bumper absorbed most of the energy (and surprisingly sprung back into shape). I will need a full report from the mechanics, but it might be that the cost of damage is less than my normal insurance excess.

@Jim64: "A few mm of standing water, a sudden movement, a dab of brakes ....."

Two of those were involved, but there was no sudden movement or change in control inputs. I was driving along in straight-line motion at constant speed and it just went without any warning. I was driving carefully and didn't even feel that sudden heart-stopping g-force you get when you aquaplane. So it still seems odd the way it went. I did get grip back pretty quickly, but the initial skid had been so severe that it was impossible to keep the car on the road even with full steering lock. So I concentrated on reducing speed and on hitting the dirt in as straight a line as possible.

But again, you have to give credit to this car for it's ability to stick to road and to respond to the driver even when it's being driven by on idiot with slicks on wet road ;-)

The cops said they have seen a number of similar accidents this year and they attribute that to the strange weather we've been having. In Switzerland we all put winter tires on in November-May, but this April was very hot, up to 15C above average, and this has caused a lot of our winter tires to deteriorate quicker than you'd normal expect. I had my checked in the service at the end of Feb and they were all roughly the same and well beyond the legal limit, but in the few months since then my rear tires had lost maybe 3mm of tread. It was their second season.

Lesson learned - check tires more frequently, and get under the car to check the entire width and circumference. Bit of a PITA to get the jack out once a month, but better than suddenly finding yourself going sideways at high speed.

 

I lost control myself too, with a xjr 2004, on 300 meters....it was raining , cold, i was speeding lightly but it was due to tires. I hope nothing breaks that day as we never found back the wheel i lost. Sometimes i wander if the control arm or the suspension triangle did not break, and that was why i could not get it back. the slip differential acted but it was too violent, i was at 45 degrees already and the car went on the other side so quickly , that i loose control on 300 meters, hit the freeway protection and continue to go...it was a hill and i was going down, re accelerating...i ended up in the middle of the freeway with 3 wheels, i managed to bring the car on the right side but it was tuff. The car was done, i was refunded.

as of today i still think something happened, that was not normal. The cops arrived they could not believe it, seeing the freeway side impact and where the car finally stopped...

Before that at the dealership i asked them to rotate the tires, they did not have time and told me next time.

honestly while the car was turning and turning, i could not even push the brake pedal i was totally shocked. I could do nothing at all, except holding myself with the steering wheel... it has happened to me one time but it was good one. I was going at jaguar for a recall. I do not feel good about it but it is important to assume it and talk about it, i think.

The front wheel drifted first..

Let me add this, when the car drifted on the right 45 degrees, the hill was stiff, i fell like the car was slowly coming back straight or on her way but suddenly the slip dif, acted but way too late, forcing indeed the car to continue on the right maybe more than 45 degrees then, so when the car finally made it back it was way too violent to control anything, i bet you if the slip dif, never acted i will have saved the car but going down on a hill like this, it was not helpfull at all. The tires were good, i meant i never had a tires with less than 40% tread life, i changed them half way each time.

 

From my long track racing experience I learned that once a car drifts past roughly 45-degrees, counter steering is no longer a good alternative. It will likely result in exactly the kind of violent secondary spin as you described. That is, because as the slide progresses and the speeds drop the tires may regain traction and drive the car violently in the direction the front tires are steered. This secondary spin (opposite in direction to the primary spin) tends to be far more violent than the original spin.

My practice when spinning on the tracks (I had my fair share of those) was that once the car got past about a 45 degree spin angle, I straightened the steering wheel and locked the brakes to ride out the spin in a predictable manner.

Albert

 

Either way, really sorry to hear of your incident and genuinely hope it works out the best possible way for you, never good dealing with insurance companies at any time, as it rarely works out in your favour.

Just glad that no one was hurt, its a valuable if costly lesson but could have been so much worse.

All my best

Jim

 

Deconstruction:
Due to low tread depth, (and or low tire pressure, a contributing factor to aquaplaing) one rear tyre aquaplaned under drive. Upon loosing traction the differential allowed the low friction side (aquaplaning) tyre to speed up, when the tyre suddenly regains grip the shock in the driveline causes both tyres to loose grip. With both tyres now without traction the car wants to swap ends, because skidding tyres want to lead, hence the spin.
Many tyre installers now recommend that the deepest tread tyres be installed on the rear to prevent just this kind of accident.
Sorry your car was wrecked, but glad you're OK.
Regards,
White Bear.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I experienced. The secondary spin was quite violent and the car was almost pointing backwards. I was able to regain control to the extent that I had traction on all tires and had pulled the nose round enough to get the front wheels facing where I wanted to go. But the car was still about 45 degrees and heading to the ditch with not enough road left to avoid going off. So I gave up trying to avoid it and put all my efforts into minimizing the impact.

I've had a close look at the "wreck", and I'm still waiting for the mechanics reports, but the damage looks to be cosmetic and superficial. In fact, the front bumper although off is still in good condition. It has retained it's shape, isn't broken anywhere, and even the badge and number plate are still attached. There's a couple of minor scratches on the passenger door, presumably where the bumper flew past.

I switched the car on and the only warning light I got was to tell me the boot was open. Visually the car looks sound and it seems the front bumper shock absorbers and the general stiffness of the car have absorbed the impact in exactly the way they are designed to.

 

See for yourselves:



http://www.skankworks.net/car/bumper-left.JPG
http://www.skankworks.net/car/bumper-behind.JPG
http://www.skankworks.net/car/bumper-right.JPG
http://www.skankworks.net/car/front.JPG
http://www.skankworks.net/car/wheel-front-right.JPG
http://www.skankworks.net/car/wheel-inner.JPG


Check out the windscreen:

http://www.skankworks.net/car/sureface-scratch.JPG

I remember thinking as we flew through the air, "there's no point wiping the windows now".

 

Sorry to hear both car and job,lets hope that the "things come in threes" doesn't apply.Only up side is you were not hurt.
For what it's worth I sell back my tires at 50% to keep fresh ones between me and the road.
Be interested in where it goes now,maybe an update some time.
Good luck,

 

sorry to hear about the misfortunes but glad to see you came out ok - now to deal with pesky insurance company and repairs

 

Hmmm... the damage doesn't look too bad in the photos, assuming there is no suspension damage. In the US, your car was probably worth $30-40k (not sure what the year or mileage is) and it would take something like

On an unrelated note, I think my ambient temperature probe is wacked because it is reading very high once the car gets warm (i.e., if it's 85 degrees out, after the car warms up, it will read over 100). On my last car, this was due to me not positioning the temperature probe properly. So my question is where is the approximate location of the ambient temperature sensor?

http://www.skankworks.net/car/bumper-behind.JPG

Do I need to remove the bumper to access it?