I can say sorry for the poor typing and or spellings in my post but I think you got the message. If air is introduced into the system it was because of a leak, device replacement or low on fluid caused by a leak.

 

[QUOTE=Dennis07;1145038]We're in danger of hijacking Tauni's thread. Tauni, are you out there? Phone home!

RDMinor, I've heard the sound of the pump cavitating but only in the presence of an active leak (poor seal at a hose connection). Quite distinctive it is, and the conv. top would not operate. But in a healthy system ... not leaking, and enough fluid in the reservoir ... I don't think there can be cavitation for more than an instant. System should purge itself. Given the checks Tauni has done, it seems unlikely now that this is his problem. [QUOTE]



Dennis, I happen to agree with you on the meaning of the two lines and their description in the driver's handbook. You're reasoning is sound and added to my own experience makes me a believer.

I hope Tauni isn't disappearing as there are a couple of good suggestions as well as a wealth of info here that might help figure out the problem.

My top, which up until a couple of days ago had been giving me no problems all of a sudden would not go back up after nice drive on a warm and sunny day. I did the usual fuse checks, etc., but to no avail so I put the top up manually per the manual. The switch was totally dead without the slightest response from anything. I removed the trunk inner side panel and saw that the reservoir was well below the lower line of the tank with the top up rather than at or above the line.

I decided, rightly or wrongly, that the fluid level was too low to effectively apply enough pressure to raise the top so I got on line and found the correct fluid at Advance Auto ( Pentosin CHY 11S) for about $25 @ liter. The stuff is made in Germany and is used by Mercedes. Anyway the next day I figured to top off the reservoir and install the pressure reducing kit I was lucky enough to win and thankful that Gus supplied.

I got the appropriate tools together and did the install and refilled the reservoir without any problems thanks to Gus' very excellent instructions which I had printed out. Know remember my top is still up from my manual raising which from another post I'd discovered would have thrown off the carious switches and timing necessary for everything to work.

Anyway once I'd finished the install but hadn't buttoned anything up I tried to put the top DOWN. No go. I then manually lowered the top without any problem and che4cked the reservoir level AGAIN. According to the handbook the level should have risen. But instead it had gone DOWN a bit and was just a bit above the low mark. I then filled the reservoir up to the high mark, made sure the top was completely and snuggling lowered, and went to put the top up electrically.

Success. It took a few moments for the pump to clear its throat and the top then very smoothly and without a hitch raised and latched itself. The quarter windows came up, something they couldn't be made to do in manual mode, and I then repeated the entire cycle once again. Now with the top up the reservoir was pretty close to the top line but down somewhat from where I had just previously filled it so it pretty much did what the handbook said it should.

What I think happened is that over the 15 plus years of my cars life it has 'lost' enough fluid (there was some evidence of seepage on the bracket to which it mounts) that it got low enough for the pump to start sucking air from the reservoir instead of fluid and the rest of the events I described above took place. I believe that the lines are a way to telling us that below this level your system won't work because it will expose the intake side to air and above the high line is unnecessary and may put too much pressure on the lines as well as making it harder to pump against the vacuum it would be creating if you had filled it to the very top. Make some sense ??

If Tauni is still here I hope he responds and fills us in on just what steps he's taken and what did or did not work. So far I believe he's found no leaks, no blown fuses, and the problem arose without any noticeable prior warning so it sounds eerily similar to what I experienced. I'd like some feedback as I'm sure both you and Gus do as well.

 

RDM, truth be told, I've never understood why this pump is so sensitive to fluid level. The intake is way down at the bottom of the reservoir so it seems only an extreme underfill could let air get in that way.

But anyway, we know from experience that too low a level does make for performance trouble, so OK I accept that ... we need a lower fill-to mark on the reservoir.

I'm not so clear on the upper mark. But in poking around inside the pump (the control valve spring replacement project) I came across something that may explain why it's where it is. Out of time for now; I'll describe it tomorrow.

 

Just to finish up from yesterday ...

I should start by saying I'm by no means sure of the following, but here goes. In the photo below, you'll see a small hole, just barely visible in the upper-right of the surface where the control valves attach. This hole goes all the way through the pump body to the other side where the motor attaches. It doesn't seem to connect with anything where fluid would be flowing. What's it for?

Long story short, my conjecture is that it might be an overflow. Its position seems to align vertically just about with the upper "fill-to" line on the the reservoir cover. If this is correct, then it would explain the position of that upper line, and why we're not supposed to fill past it. Again, I haven't looked hard at this, and the idea may not hold up. But it might help explain why Jaguar's filling instructions are what they are.

 

Make sense to me and I don't squat about the motor, but surely the extra fluid in the lines between up and down has to have a place to go and over fill might put internal pressure on the rotor. Thus an escape route. Well done!


Wayne

 

Thanks, Wayne, but I'm nowhere near sure of things at this point. Just one of those "makes sense so far" ideas ...

 

That hole could also be used as a primer to the pump area.

 

Hi everyone, sorry been away. Thanks for all the feedback. I will use Photobucket and take another longer, better video today.

When you spoke of the manual operation, I tried that by releasing the petcock at the pump then using the allen wrench and I can only turn it 1/4" either way. Think that may have a part in this problem?

 

Not normal. The total travel of the allen key should be a little over 90 degrees. Some resistance since you're moving fluid around. But not hard to push against.

 

Turn the petcock counter clockwise to open then you should have no pressure on the latch if you do chances are that you have an issue with the latch or the linkage.

 

Thanks for the picture Dennis as I've been racking my brain trying to figure out where I was going to get a bad motor to tear apart just to satisfy my curiosity. So far Tauni's problem evades us as it appears to be very unusual to say the least. It's especially difficult to diagnose long distance this way as we're never sure what each party to the discussion has actually done or is trying to say.

His problem with the manual opening sequence is typical as we don't know if he opened the pressure release petcock the full 3 1/2 turns to relieve all the pressure quickly or did he just 'crack' it which relieves the pressure but slowly. Did he run into resistance from the Allen wrench and quit for fear of breaking something (I know I was leery of that) or is it really unwilling to turn more then about 1/4"? Since his top was functioning without any problems before this event and he still hasn't found a leak he should NOT be having the kinds of difficulties he's telling us about.

I know when mine quit with the top down that I was totally mystified as to cause. I grabbed the driver's handbook (not svc manual) and read the instructions for manually opening and closing the top and followed the directions exactly. Released the pressure with about a 3 1/2 counter clockwise turn of the petcock as Gus has also pointed out, got the stored Allen wrench and pout some muscle into turning it counter clockwise as well (it does take some effort however), eased the top up as evenly as I could (it went up very easily however) and then turned the Allen wrench clockwise while pulling down on the top with the proved handhold. Noticed the reservoir was about 1/2" BELOW the low mark and read where (rightly or wrongly) with the top UP it should be at the lower mark and filled it to there while installing Gus's pressure reducing part. I then tried to put the top back down with the button but the pump still wouldn't activate so I figures the various micro-switches or whatever were out of synch and put the top down manually by reversing the operation I'd used to put it up, again releasing the pressure. With the top now down I looked at the reservoir again and it was well shy of the high mark so I topped it, off turned the petcock to the fully closed position and this time the top came up perfectly the very next time I pushed the button. I cycled it a coup0le of more times to check for operation and any obvious leaks (as I've done a couple of times since) and when those were successful proclaimed myself satisfied and buttoned it all back up and turned to the next task.


To be honest I can't detect any really substantial difference in operating time now that Gus's gizmo has been installed as I was expecting it to take several seconds longer. At my age everything seems to take longer and that's actually a good thing as life has already gone by at a too fast rate for my taste anyway<G>

 

RDM, life does indeed go by too fast. I've tried to slow it down, really have, but nothing seems to work.

Devices that reduce peak pressure such as the external valve you installed won't slow the system down. They kick in only when a pressure limit is exceeded, most notably at or near a dead-head (zero-flow) condition that occurs briefly during latch operations.


Other topic: on that mystery hole through the pump body (post #24 above) ... it may or may not be an overflow, but it's unlikely to be for priming. Two reasons: it's positioned too high in the reservoir to be reliably in the fluid bath (which is why it may be an overflow) but most importantly ... it's unfiltered! There is an extremely fine mesh screen filtering the fluid at the pump's intake. It doesn't seem to make sense to do that, and then have another, unfiltered path into the pump.

This is of course just my opinion.

 

Morning everyone, I uploaded a better video of the pump running. It sounds like its has a whining noise.

Link that works
http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/sn...osepq.mp4.html

I will get the top open and try the manual latch and video from the top down view of the latch area.

 

I tried the link and its saying I deleted or moved it, let me get that corrected, sorry

 

I am uploading multiple movies, M-1 thru M6 and a latch picture.
This link should work for all videos so far. If you select organize you can see the Titles.

XK8 Photos by snwbrd63 | Photobucket

 

Hooray! I got the manual latch release to work. May have just use more force to push the fluid. But it seems to work easily now.
Time for a Celebration Stella and continue :-)

 

Cleaned and lubed the entire latch system, closed the petcock and the roof closed first time, but would not reopen.

 

Where are our manners? First we hijack your thread, than we let your posts go unanswered.

Flesh out the details of where you are for us:
- You got a completely normal "raise top" operation, including latch closure, correct?
- When you try to lower the top what happens? ... windows, pump sounds, whatever you can observe.
- The petcock is closed, right?

When working with the latch manually ... it feels smooth now throughout its full travel (about 90 degrees on the hex key), correct?

 

hahaha its okay.
I got the top to raise correctly.

When I lower the top the windows drop, the pump starts and that latch pin moves to the right almost to the point of opening then it returns to original position when latch is closed. If I push on the top with some force or use the allen wrench to keep forward moving pressure it will open up. it seems to move farther over now the got the latch mechanism cleaned and lubed. Yes, the petcock is closed.

 

I am uploading two new videos, TOP-DOWN and TOP-UP, check those out under XK Convertible Top folder on photobucket

On Top Down I have to wait till the latch pin is almost at the point of stopping then I can push pretty hard on the top and it opens, the top at that point Springs open.

On TOP DOWN If I dont slow the top operation by letting off the button it will close faster than the latch can open. The last one should be done uploading in 2 minutes

http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/sn...?sort=3&page=1