Thanks again Jay, appears most any PWM motor will work and they are high pressure. My XK8 system runs at 53-54 at rail so the sensor at right front would regulate the 60 PSI motor capacity to acceptable range. Summitt Racing, DeatschWerks and a few others have pumps in range from $40 to $250+. Saw one that had a Flange like your OEM pump. With the options seen on the PWM pump motors, plus they will require the wire connector and the supply hose linking to the upper flange metal closure seal. My Google searches were for " 12V. PWM returnless intank EFi fuel pump motors". The info gleaned from my and others research would give me adequate confidence to order a pump motor and install kit from one of these vendors listed by Google once they confirmed the motor was compatible with PWM Driver module. Will attempt to gather additional info and share if available.

 

Someone may want to try that, but that someone ain't me, lol...
I may be willing to go a little on the wild side, but that's a bit much for even for me...
Bro,,, I LIKES your style

 

I suspect the external pump would be too noisey and probably difficult to adapt to the PWM driver. I tried a MSD Ext. Pump on my MGB/Mustang version and it was too much noise. That is a Rabbit Hole I would not attempt.

 

And, the design of the tank, when you reach inside to deal with pugging and unplugging the fuel hose from the pump, the steel tube/spout connection sits a few inches off the bottom of the tank. But I guess that could be dealt with. Simply cut the tube flush with the bottom of the tank? At the same time, I dont know if where that tank outlet lives is at the low point of the tank. Actually, I dont believe it is. One would also need to set up some sort of sump or reservoir so the gas sloshing around in the tank doesn't introduce air into the line, or when sitting on unlevel ground etc. Accelerating. Then, cutting into the fuel line some where finding a place for the pump to live full time.

I don't think its an impossible idea, just a lot of work and lots to figure out. At the same time, the need to remove the tank to service the pump, the cost of the pump and labor its something to think about. Me, like I mentioned, I cut an access hole to the pump/tank which makes it a little less painful, and if a situation where a pump can cost $40 - $50 dollars to replace - it will be a super welcomed work around.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress....

 

I will... I've taken so much from this group and have given far to little in return. I really love and especially in the beginning) rely on this forum...

 

The A/M pumps on some sites are cheap and quality is unknown. Reputable vendors are more expensive and have their reputations to consider. These vendors with proven quality pumps probably would be my choice. Several of the motors have a anti-backflow device in the exit nipple. Those pumps with the complete assembly canister are very expensive $800+. Checked The Rock Auto site and a Carter assembly was $480 and less costly Ultra Power was $378. They indicate a 1 Yr. warranty. Appears the A/M has begun to compete even with the limited number of our XK8's & R's. The process of replacing the pump motor should be less of a concern now that Jay has provided photos and the canister is not a dedicated design other than generally available types.. These suggestions presume the Rail Sensor & PWM Module, Fuse/Relay, Fuel Gauge and anti-backflow valve are all good. Splicing wiring and connection the fuel resistant hose should be a task almost anyone with basic skill can perform. Maybe someone who has access to the pump canister will provide GOOD (not Close Up) photos of top, sides and bottom some anyone can visualize this unit. Thanks for help and info.

 

Bravo! Jay and Kstev for tackling another annoying problem/expense that needs to be researched and tested in the real world.

Jay, said it best, "I've taken so much from this group and have given far to little in return"

I think we all feel this way no matter how much knowledge or experience we share with each other because we have ALL learned and gotten invaluable help at times from other members. There's a lot of very smart and generous people here who have found good solutions for a myriad of issues that all of us Jag lovers have to deal with.So best of luck guys let us know what you figure out.

 

without this forum, and the freely given exchange of hard earned knowledge, I would never have had the confidence to look for and purchase my 2002 XKR.

learning what the known issues were, and how to deal with them was worth more than I can ever repay,

thanks to all for the wonderful 7 years and 80,000 miles behind the wheel.

Z

 

I got some measurements of the PUMP as best I could and (see photos), as with everything Jaguar, there is a lot going on in this fuel housing and basket.

Seems my problems were and are a couple few fold.

And, importantly, I am fairly confident that the pump pictured above is the right pump.


I'm going to describe this the best I can, so bear with me.

One warning (and I think this is important because I would HATE to see someone do pump work, reinstall everything involved in a normal pump change in one of these cars with tank removal etc, and learn ONLY after reinstallation that they got this wrong)....

The warning is, and as you can see in the photo, the basket is completely enclosed on the lower end,,,, except. See hinged stopper with flap at bottom of reservoir..

Once the fuel level in the tank gets below a certain level (below the open top of the basket) the ONLY way I can see fuel is able to get into the basket is via that plug sealing system (end of screw driver) at the bottom of the basket. Feeding or helping feed the inlet, flap and seal is what looks like a small jet created by the pump which creates a venturi effect (????) situation that uses the pump to help force open the flap while the pump is pumping encouraging fuel to flow into the bottom of the basket once the fuel in the tank gets below a certain level. The jet is produced by the thinner tube that runs vertically down the side of the basket into a plastic elbow. The horizontal end of the clip in elbow ends with a pin hole which passes into an open passage at the bottom of the basket and my guess is the small jet of fuel drags/pushes or encourages fuel from the bottom of the tank into the direction of the entrance at the bottom of the basket where the flap seal is to FILL the reservoir??? Strange and cool!

When the car and pump are shut off the flap falls and seals, keeping the basket full so there is not a fuel delivery delay at start up when the tank is below a certain level I'd guess.

When the tank is full, fuel easily enters the top of the assembly (which is wide open) but when the fuel is lower it relies (from what I can see) on the flap and plug seal system... I was tempted to just make a bunch of holes on the bottom end of the basket out of some kind of weird frustration with the design. But then it started to make sense. The basket serves as a reservoir and is continuously filled (and left full when the car is powered down) with this stopper. If the stopper fails????? Anywho.
The warning is, if one does remove the top end of the basket and fiddle around with the pump and sock for any reason, on reinstall, IF the sock is misplaced when reinserted back into the basket the sock can easily interfere with the right functioning of the flap/plug gizmo.... The sock filter is quite large and needs to be placed into the bottom of the basket juuuust SO, as to not cover or obstruct the free, and very delicate movement,q of that flap. Anywho,,,

It seems that not only did I have the bad wiring in the connectors at the pump I also had/have a fuel pressure sensor issue at the rail which was/is MIS reading/transmitting only 15-17psi max at the rail no matter how hard the pump was running... So, today, now, the wiring is fixed but the faulty sensor is telling the pump to run full blast. I could understand what I was seeing. The pump was running hard, I could hear it as I left the tank access point open trying to figure out what was going on.

Both STFT were at -25.00. Engine seemed to be running "normal"... But something was/is off.

In that, the faulty fuel pressure sensor was telling the pump regulator and pump to pump FULL BLAST for a long period of time, which overheated the corroded and fouled connector spades in the wiring - frying the plastic in the connectors. This all sucks BUT I feel lucky as these connections were in the tank and got quite hot. I'm glad the car didn't burn down.

Here some pics with measurements and other stuff,,,, as good as I had patience for that day.

DAMN evaporating gas is SUPER cold on a 30 degree morning. Like my hand was going to fall off cold!









​​​​​​​

 

I am so new to this world, and so impressed with the sharing of knowledge on this forum.

I’ve read through this chain and I have a silly question. Can JJJ’s problem be avoided by keeping the tank filled to a certain level?

It sounds way too simple, but I’m not as handy as you fellas and I’d love an easy prevention technique.

 

For fuel pumps installed inside gas tanks, it is always advisable to keep the tank filled at least to the quarter-tank level because that helps to cool the fuel pump. Whether that truly prevents a fuel pump from ever failing is questionable because with enough age and use, all motors eventually wear out....

 

Ill try and get some better photos of the is (new to me hiding in plain site) setup.

Basically, and I have never seen this working as it is INSIDE the tank when the car is running, is that the action of the pump pumping the fuel to the engine via the main gas line is a set up that makes it so the basket around the entirety of the pump is filled by this little jet that fills the basket whenever the pump is running. Yes, it sprays the jet of fuel at really high pressure into the bottom of the basket, but that action also draws significant amounts of fuel from the tank thru a section of tubing under the basket, filling it. Pretty cool. I never knew. That is the fuel that keeps the pump cool, I would guess...?

 

Hey z, I did the opposite with same outcome. I did some research (not enough) before buying my car but at that time my hardest decision was did I want an x100 or an x150. Obviously I picked the x100 because I thought the xk8 is had nicer lines and were less expensive than the newer models. So once that was out of the way I started looking and came across a 2003 convertible in Pacific Blue with 62000 miles on eBay. I talked with the dealer who was a small used car dealer in NC we worked out a deal and he shipped the car to me in NJ. Basically the first time I saw the car was when it was dropped off the car carrier in my driveway. No history with the car whatsoever and the Carfax showing an accident. Long story short that was 8 years ago and it’s been a great car and yeah I got really lucky.

Then I discovered this forum and started reading which in a short period of time sent me into total panic mode wondering if I just made a huge mistake. However, being here pretty regularly learning about the car and making a lot of friends over the years has made owning my Jag even more enjoyable than I could have ever imagined.

BTW I found and contacted all previous owners after buying my car and found out the accident should never have been reported it was so small.


Yeah, that’s a hell of an accident.

 

Thanks Jay for photos and the measurements. Looks like 50mm dia. & 104-105mm height. It seems you are correct about the small valve at the bottom. Currently there is a fuel pump related thread going on the X150 model also. They discuss the same effect you stated about the canister fill with low level fuel. Guess that device was required when they went returnless. On return system, the returned fuel was sent back to canister and it stayed full until gas was gone. With a quality pump , I fell confident our repairs would be successful. Thank goodness I have a Coupe. (just a bit of trim around the subwoofer and even the relief valve assembly will come out.

 

@Shoreguy I have a nearly identical story to yours. Bought my ‘03 vert from AZ. Delivered to Minnesota (in early Nov!). Immediately panicked and thought I wouldn’t fit (6’4”). Then found this forum and panicked a bit more. Like I should have done more research.

This winter I’m already falling in love with our first kitty, while tinkering. Can’t wait for warm weather!

Here’s to hoping I’m in your boat in 8 years.

 

So, this is what I'm looking at. Took less than a week delivered to my door in NYC from China. Crazy! Free shipping. This thing has heft and feels super solid. Don't know what that means exactly... More solid than any auto pump I've held.

Measurements are the same. Says this is a suitable replacement for the range rover 4.2 supercharged and many other cars. I'm guessing it's a VDO pump,,, yet to by LABELED by VDO. That VDO, then Jaguar Range Rover and many others buy this this bulk from this Chinese manufacturer and pop them in the baskets suited for the cars they go in.

That damn sock that you see in the photo doesn't even fit the snout on the bottom.

What a crazy world.

I may pop it in tomorrow and I'll report back.
40$,,, I would say folks should grab one up! But that's just me

 

Hey Jay whenever you get this in your car and it works(it will) I'll order 2! However, having grown up in Queens I know the weather you're having right now so literally whenever. lol

 

Haha! Right!?

Man, I've been watching this great channel on YouTube, no talk, just car work, a kid, literally. Simon Fordman of anyone wants to check it out. Great camera work AND he lives in Minnesota! Nothing stops him -22 degrees on his last video. Makes me feel like a punk ***...

I'm going to TRY to get the courage to have a look today or tomorrow,,,, I think, lol... It's 23degress here now, 7am.

Thing about pumps is, quality, over time and,,,

We shall see.

 

Wow, you guys are TROOPERS. I balk at 20F and stay indoors. The 2 car garage stays about 50-55F and gets little use when temps are cold. Middle Tn. had a 13F yesterday am so I refrained from any lengthily treks outside. Guess i am a P---Y.
The pump appears to 50mm in diameter and 104-105mm in length or height. Are my figures correct? Again, you guys are Tough. :-)