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Its been a long long while for me.
I've been restoring a big OL 100 yo old colonial house with my wife here in NYC.
Machines have been sadly (and unforgivably) neglected.
I've missed being on here! I've missed y'all... I really have. Well, some of y'all
Wife got in the car yesterday morning to head to work (well, to the ferry, then to the train, then to work) and it was a crank no start situation, and my guess is the fuel pump. I do have more investigating to do...
Has ANYONE come up with an alternative to the $800 (riiiidiculously priced) 2003-2006 XKR 4.2 fuel pump?
Please tell me someone has!?
You know me (if you do). I am definitely one who will go outside the "rules".
If there is an aftermarket, or something someone has come up with to be MADE to fit, I am interested.
Anyone?.
Last edited by JayJagJay; Jan 28, 2025 at 01:15 PM.
So last night I got home from work and did a little tinkering and scanning. Found 15psig fixed fuel pressure at turn of the key. Several cycles and a p0191 code (the opposite of the p0193 code for high pressure) on the obd. Looks like it's the pump or one of the other 2, 3 devices involved in fueling and pressure. GREAT!
Anyways, I got to digging around in my pile of parts that are collecting dust and I found the cheap alternative pump that I purchased some time ago (I think it was 70$) on eBay that I believe is a drop in. BUT, it scares me. I don't want my wife or me getting stranded in who knows where with a pump that will fail in 6 days. Got some thinking to do.
I don't think the OE VDO pump in the OE housing is as small as the pump in the replacement eBay gizmo and I NEVER am able to get dimensions online when shopping for pumps to try and match things up with either basket.
Me. I am willing to drop a pump that will produce right pressures (keeping up with the 4.2 and supercharged specs of the XKR) and fastening it to the basket. That would be easy. But WHICH pump is the question... smh. This is bring back old memories, 😂
I do not recall anyone posting about a successful non-OEM replacement fuel pump for the 4.2 cars. I hope whatever you decide to try will indeed work for you. Good luck and keep us posted....
I do not recall anyone posting about a successful non-OEM replacement fuel pump for the 4.2 cars. I hope whatever you decide to try will indeed work for you. Good luck and keep us posted....
I certainly will and I hope I can find something that works as well...
Over the years this issue has come up several times here on the forum.
Honestly I cannot believe what they charge for these pump set ups.
There is NOTHIING futuristic, hyper tech or exclusive about these $800 fuel pumps. Its a gouge.
Has anyone posted about a non-successful attempt afayk?
I know these things are expensive, but it isn't really a rip off. the 4.0 cars use a standard fuel pump that is used on quite a few other cars/engines - when it inevitably fails, you buy a new generic pump and swap it. The 4.2 has a far more complicated fuel setup, involving this custom designed fuel pump that only fits one engine and in your case has lasted 21 years. People seem to like the increased fuel economy of the 4.2 over the 4.0 engines, so you can't really complain if that improved fuel economy comes at the cost of a complicated fuel system that is a small fortune to replace every quarter of a century.
$800 / 21 = $38 per annum. Work out if you have saved that much in fuel costs a year and get back to us.
I know these things are expensive, but it isn't really a rip off. the 4.0 cars use a standard fuel pump that is used on quite a few other cars/engines - when it inevitably fails, you buy a new generic pump and swap it. The 4.2 has a far more complicated fuel setup, involving this custom designed fuel pump that only fits one engine and in your case has lasted 21 years. People seem to like the increased fuel economy of the 4.2 over the 4.0 engines, so you can't really complain if that improved fuel economy comes at the cost of a complicated fuel system that is a small fortune to replace every quarter of a century.
$800 / 21 = $38 per annum. Work out if you have saved that much in fuel costs a year and get back to us.
I would think that 6th gear would have more of an impact on fuel economy than the return-less fuel-pump.
I would think that 6th gear would have more of an impact on fuel economy than the return-less fuel-pump.
Given that they come as a package it makes no difference. If you want the improved fuel economy of the 4.2 you have to have the added complexity of the new fuel pump and live with the consequences (including the transmission chirp).
I know these things are expensive, but it isn't really a rip off. the 4.0 cars use a standard fuel pump that is used on quite a few other cars/engines - when it inevitably fails, you buy a new generic pump and swap it. The 4.2 has a far more complicated fuel setup, involving this custom designed fuel pump that only fits one engine and in your case has lasted 21 years. People seem to like the increased fuel economy of the 4.2 over the 4.0 engines, so you can't really complain if that improved fuel economy comes at the cost of a complicated fuel system that is a small fortune to replace every quarter of a century.
$800 / 21 = $38 per annum. Work out if you have saved that much in fuel costs a year and get back to us.
Heeeey dibbit! Its been a while
Interesting. I guess I could first point to the idea that a LOT of people on the forum have had fuel pumps fail, in some cases, multiple fuel pumps fail. Some in succession within a years time. This is my second pump in 3 yrs.
Then, I guess I could point to example after example of fueling assemblies/systems in a variety of cars (old and new) that use a big ol in tank plastic basket and a PWM system (which is old and founded tech) that are way way way less expensive.
Yes, the increased fuel economy is (in part) due to the return-less fueling system but it is certainly NOT central or the main thing responsible for the better milage in the 4.2 vs 4.0 cars. There is really nothing (that I know of) built into the fueling set up of these cars that has a huge impact on MPG... is there?
Please say more about the "custom design" of this VDO pump - the pump itself. I have been looking for a good while (yrs) now to get specs on it...
In reality, its not a complicated system. There is a device on the fuel rail that measures the fuel rail pressure, reports that pressure to the ecu, which in turn triggers a fuel pump regulator in the boot to pulse a fuel pump (with a particular PSI and GPH capacity) on and off using voltage in the milliseconds to keep a fairly constant fuel pressure....btw - that pressure (around 53-54 psi) is way way lower, and gph is way way LESS than THIS pump or many other aftermarket pumps can produce. The PWM idea, and the electronics that work it, are old old tech and pretty straightforward. See this link. As far as I know, for the most part, its the same engine. Less a supercharger.
Why argue FOR getting jipped?
Last edited by JayJagJay; Jan 30, 2025 at 08:18 AM.
Interesting. I guess I could first point to the idea that a LOT of people on the forum have had fuel pumps fail, in some cases, multiple fuel pumps fail. Some in succession within a years time. This is my second pump in 3 yrs.
Then, I guess I could point to example after example of fueling assemblies/systems in a variety of cars (old and new) that use a big ol in tank plastic basket and a PWM system (which is old and founded tech) that are way way way less expensive.
Yes, the increased fuel economy is (in part) due to the return-less fueling system but it is certainly NOT central or the main thing responsible for the better milage in the 4.2 vs 4.0 cars. There is really nothing (that I know of) built into the fueling set up of these cars that has a huge impact on MPG... is there?
Please say more about the "custom design" of this VDO pump - the pump itself. I have been looking for a good while (yrs) now to get specs on it...
In reality, its not a complicated system. There is a device on the fuel rail that measures the fuel rail pressure, reports that pressure to the ecu, which in turn triggers a fuel pump regulator in the boot to pulse a fuel pump (with a particular PSI and GPH capacity) on and off using voltage in the milliseconds to keep a fairly constant fuel pressure....btw - that pressure (around 53-54 psi) is way way lower, and gph is way way LESS than THIS pump or many other aftermarket pumps can produce. The PWM idea, and the electronics that work it, are old old tech and pretty straightforward. See this link. As far as I know, for the most part, its the same engine. Less a supercharger.
Why argue FOR getting jipped?
It's been ages - I'm glad to see you are still going strong, even if your fuel pump isn't
I'm not arguing FOR getting ripped off, just pointing out that you can't really expect OEM spares for an expensive car that stopped production nearly 20 years ago to be cheap just because the cars themselves are now worth practically nothing. My 2001 XKR convertible was £75,000 new, which with inflation makes £138,000 today - that is a lot of expensive parts put together to make a car, and those parts haven't got any cheaper just because they are now new old stock using old tech. In fact that might explain why your new ones failed so quickly, if they have been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse for the past couple of decades.
If you can find an alternative pump that will replace the one in the custom designed OEM assembly then great, the one you linked to is the cheap one that (luckily) fits the 4.0 cars. You would think that there is an aftermarket pump out there that would be a drop in replacement on the 4.2 and if you manage to find one then a lot of people will be very grateful. It might be easier to retrofit the 4.0 fuel system, which is just on or off and plenty of those available in the junk yards.
There are alternative fuel pumps for the 4.2 NA and supercharged engines. They may not be 100% reliable but they are £75 or so. You will need to take the pump out the old assembly and try and fit the new one, not sure how easy it is to do because I've never done it but apparently they work. In-Tank Fuel Pump For Jaguar XJ8 XKR ITP340 XW9U-9350-AA / JLM20756 / F7AUA1A | eBay
I would insist upon seeing solid evidence of this solution actually working before being willing to attempt it....
I think if you're fuel pump is already dead it's worth a shot at least. I wouldn't touch anything on the car if it's already working, that is just asking for trouble.
I've been sick. Crazy earache just after a scuba session. OMG. The ear is a sensitive thing. I'm sorry I haven't been responding to this.
I'm seeing this. Could it be? It looks exactly like the OE pump in the basket... I have a hard time remembering how I came across it, but I think it might be right.
Some of y'all are better at researching but I hope this helps someone down the road. I would love to hear y'all's thoughts.
As for mine. Scary thing thinking this was in the TANK! See pics. I cleaned up the contacts on the pump and applied 12v. Pump fired up ran quietly and steady. From back in the days of rescuing this car (this is the car that took a swim in the lake) I actually had spare plug parts. Nutty. I'll have to get it back in the car but it's just been to cold here and I've been ill. We shall see.
I have followed Jay Jag (2-3 yrs.+) and this thread closely. Been discussing with Jay regarding different ways to solve the 2003+ 4.2: pump cartridge repairs. Previous experience was with a old GM cartridge that I was able to disassemble and reassemble with a operable motor which is similar to the 2002- 4.0L cars back. The later cars used return less fuel systems and require a more a responsive motor than the return type. Have located a few sources for these return less motors but have no size info. LPH generally is adequate and not a problem with A/M pump motors.This info; plus if the cartridge can be disassembled and new motor installed and then successfully reassembled. I need the pump body diameter, the height from bottom to top of pump body and where the filter attaches ( Center or L or R of center). Generally the pump has a male type nipple at top that flex fuel resistant hoes attaches plus a 2 wire connection. from the PWM control unit. The check valve is located at the opening flange and perhaps it is a 2nd piece of the pump assembly. If you have no problem with fuel draining back, reuse this part and just replace the motor. Hope someone will advise if the cartridge can have a successful motor replacement w/o destroying the plastic housing. I tried a Toyota EFI cartridge but appears it was sonically welded. Unable to access the motor w/o destroying it. Hope someone will share the requested info and perhaps a good photo of the assembly.
I have followed Jay Jag (2-3 yrs.+) and this thread closely. Been discussing with Jay regarding different ways to solve the 2003+ 4.2: pump cartridge repairs. Previous experience was with a old GM cartridge that I was able to disassemble and reassemble with a operable motor which is similar to the 2002- 4.0L cars back. The later cars used return less fuel systems and require a more a responsive motor than the return type. Have located a few sources for these return less motors but have no size info. LPH generally is adequate and not a problem with A/M pump motors.This info; plus if the cartridge can be disassembled and new motor installed and then successfully reassembled. I need the pump body diameter, the height from bottom to top of pump body and where the filter attaches ( Center or L or R of center). Generally the pump has a male type nipple at top that flex fuel resistant hoes attaches plus a 2 wire connection. from the PWM control unit. The check valve is located at the opening flange and perhaps it is a 2nd piece of the pump assembly. If you have no problem with fuel draining back, reuse this part and just replace the motor. Hope someone will advise if the cartridge can have a successful motor replacement w/o destroying the plastic housing. I tried a Toyota EFI cartridge but appears it was sonically welded. Unable to access the motor w/o destroying it. Hope someone will share the requested info and perhaps a good photo of the assembly.
Absolutely.... The plastic pump housing can be opened and disassembled. Everything inside is accessible and take-apart-able... From there there are 2 large clips that (if you look at the photos above) grab that small "bump" in the steel/aluminum cylindrical casing of the pump body, to hold it in place. It's a tuckass clincher for fear of cracking the the tabs, but what you have to kinda do is pry the two large tabs back and pull the pump out of the top section of the plastic assembly. If a pump can't be found that has the small raised "bump" on the body like the OE, it would be as simple as using a heavy duty zip tie and securing the pump body to the plastic housing - no big deal. The question is, which pump? For me, its not so much about the size and it fitting into the plastic house,,, its about GPM and pressures and proper responsiveness to the PWM pulses being sent by the fueling regulator. Seems like any pump that IS a PWM pump or comes from a PWM return-less system, that has the capacity to pump 255LPM (I think it is) should work, NO? I've just been a coward about it.
Any new pump should come with a sock filter that fits the inlet for the pump it comes with.
I am SORRY that I did not take measurements of the pump and post them in my last post. I have to get back in there and will.... One, thing was that the housing seemed cold and brittle and I didn't want to risk cracking the tabs. But I will,,, Ill go back and get the measurements and post them.
I have a real feeling that that pump ($40!!!!) above is the correct pump but I'm (ashamed to say) I cannot afford the cost a the moment. Money is going in other directions.
Guys building a Sauna and Steam Shower in the basement, lol. I hate money, and love it too.
thanks Jay, usually the canisters have an opening in bottom that the filter sock fits on in 1 of the 3 positions I mentioned. Unless the 4.2l engine does not have bottom enclosure plate; that is important. Regarding the 255 GPH; generally the flow is LPH and is variable, depending on needs. WOT requires max and the return less generally operate at 30 to 50% of their range. This is reason most of them last so long. The old type in return system operated at 100% while the system was activated. The pump motors generally have a bank type enclosure with thin foam blanket to reduce any possible noise. The Tie Wrap would probably work also. I agree the PWM controller would work with any 12v. return less motor since there does not appear to different technology involved. Again, I would not think there would be a FLOW Quantity problem. Not many drivers use WOT very long. Hope you can provide some pics of the lower and bottom of the canister along with the measurments. Maybe we have push fwd a bit?
thanks Jay, usually the canisters have an opening in bottom that the filter sock fits on in 1 of the 3 positions I mentioned. Unless the 4.2l engine does not have bottom enclosure plate; that is important. Regarding the 255 GPH; generally the flow is LPH and is variable, depending on needs. WOT requires max and the return less generally operate at 30 to 50% of their range. This is reason most of them last so long. The old type in return system operated at 100% while the system was activated. The pump motors generally have a bank type enclosure with thin foam blanket to reduce any possible noise. The Tie Wrap would probably work also. I agree the PWM controller would work with any 12v. return less motor since there does not appear to different technology involved. Again, I would not think there would be a FLOW Quantity problem. Not many drivers use WOT very long. Hope you can provide some pics of the lower and bottom of the canister along with the measurements. Maybe we have push fwd a bit?
In these cars (mine at least) the sock on the pump sits in the basket with the pump and attaches to the bottom of the pump itself. Not outside of the assembly. Thanks for the correction on the LPH and not GPH...
Again. About the pump linked and imaged above the VDO WGS500012 (google search) it comes up for a lot of jag/range rover 4.2 liter supercharged models. looks like a fairly common pump for several high-end-ish style cars. Thing is they rarely seem to come separate,,, as in not installed in a basket specific to certain make or model vehicle. I went ahead and ordered one ($40US) form the Alibaba site. We shall see. Thankfully, I can have the pump IN and OUT in minutes due to the access hole I have in my back dash. From what I can see and in the little bit of reading, it seems like it could be the identical pump. I'll tak 40$ all day, and just reuse the basket. I also would like to get some better ideas about the pop valve/pressure regulator in case that would ever need replacing... When I got this car the pop valve/pressure regulator was shot. I thankfully got another one form a member here. Seems like a million years ago now... #s on poop valve
Last edited by JayJagJay; Feb 14, 2025 at 11:39 AM.
2004 Jaguar XKR - 4.2 Fuel Pump Alternatives???
