Hello,

I just replaced the convertible top (latch) hydraulic lines with the stainless steel lines recommended by Gus Glikas. In doing the job, I lost the oil which was contained in the old hydraulic lines and need to add makeup oil. The area around the oil leak was gummy/jelled and very stickey. The oil in the pump is light green (almost yellow) in color which suggests PENTOSIN CHF 7.1 (mineral Based).
The oil now recommended is CHF 11S (synthetic) which is dark green. The two cannot be mixed.
The cost of these oils is rather expensive and I'd like to buy just enough to make up the lost oil. My question is how do I ensure the oil still in the pump is CHF 7.1 and not the CHF 11S ? Are the indicated color differences dramatic enough for me to distingush this as CHF 7.1 ?

 

I purchased one container of CHF 11S at a local store for $25.00 and I used it on my car and another after hose failures and toped mine off twice. As far as mixing all you can do is remove what you can and move on. http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepairHydFluid.htm

 

Years ago when the XK convertibles were still young, this issue of the convertible top sticking (up or down) came up. It was mostly down to lack of use, especially in the UK where we have so much rain; (why bother with a convertible at all !!). Jaguar put out a TSB, I believe, to replace the oil with another grade and type. I remember reading about it in the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club magazine. From what I remember, the old oil had to be all drained off using a specific set of procedures, but as far as I know, it did not involve a flushing process, although my memory may not be up to it. Of course, one could "flush" by draining, filling with new type oil, draining again, and finally filling with new oil.

 

Fraser,
You are correct and to date the only failures I have seen or heard are hose and seal failures due to excessive pressure. To be honest with you I think Jaguar and Power Packers did not know how to address the problems they were experiencing. I will say this that I do not believe in mixing or substituting one fluid for another unless you have the MSDS sheets on each to see that they are compatible. A new hydraulic pump is far more expensive than a $24.00 can of fluid Jag recommends. I have a procedure that is similar to Jaguars and a lot less invasive. I hope this helps.

 

FWIW, I replaced the fluid in my 99 with 11S and so far, so good, no problems. BTW, it's worth the $$ to add the pressure relief valve while you're at it...(thanks Gus!). My top works fine after a couple of changes with the 11S fluid.

 

The original fluid was called UNIVIS and it was YELLOW. The problem was that it lost it's thin vicosity solvents (VOCs) and became very GUMMY. The replacement was CHF 11S and we flushed HUNDREDS of systems with HUNDREDS of liters of fluid. I think Jaguar charges about $70.00 a liter (JLM 21112) for something that costs about $15.00 a liter wholesale. I have seen it for a little over $20.00 a liter retail. There was an old TSB 501-33am that documented the procedure for flushing the system and refilling with Pentosin CHF 11S. I suck out the old UNIVIS from the reservoir with a Mighty VAC vacuum pump and fill the reservoir with Pentosin, drop the hood latch and remove the hoses, operate the pump until the fluid runs a solid GREEN color and then reassemble the latch. 2000MY onward cars should already have the Pentosin fluid.

bob gauff

 

The 501-33 TSB is available at the top of this forum under the 'TSB Sticky'.

 

I have a 2000 XK8, which, per the above post, should be using Pentosin. Today my top would not go up...it had been slowing up lately. I have no leaks. Is flushing the hydraulic fluid still the most probable fix? I tried to download TSB 501-33 (I think that was the number anyway) from elsewhere in the forum, but was unsuccessful.

Thanks...John G.

 

I don't know why you are having trouble downloading the Word file but here it is in .pdf.

Bottom line is that the TSB was issued in August '99 at the start of the '00 model year. If your car was assembled after that you should have the green Pentosin fluid. Check the manufacture date on the driver 'B' column. Check the color of the fluid in the reservoir. The earlier fluid was yellow. Top up if low and green, flush if yellow.

There is also a common problem with the top lift rams leaking without much sign of escaped fluid. If reservoir is low you have a leak that must be fixed.

Also an excellent time to install the pressure regulating system before you blow the hoses which I am surprised hasn't happened yet. Mine blew at 40k mile, 4 year intervals like clockwork . . . three times.

Another problem that has caused more than one pump to be replaced in error is the manual bypass valve being slightly open. It is the 'T' handled dohicky on the side of the pump. Check to ensure that it is fully closed clockwise.

 

My passenger side ram started leaking also, it was groaning and refused to raise after about a two week period of the audible system pain.

 

Matt,

You sure are getting your opportunity to polish your skills as a shade tree mechanic. The one on the right is the most replaced. Mine is leaking but no groaning from it. At the price of the ram I will let it go until I have a need to replace it. Shop around for the best price!

 

The roof operating slowly can be the fluid or the fluid level or the petcock partially open. Check the petcock on the pump and confirm that it is closed and the level of the fluid. I am unsure of the fluid you have and if it was ever replaced. I have a lot of info on the FAQ page at the bottom or you can go directly to my page on all the roof operation. I also have a short version on the fluid replacement that might help. Let us know what you find!

 

Gus, dealer spotted the leaking ram when the replaced my hydraulic hoses. I don't have to worry about that ever again.

 

Hey folks and forgive the dumbness of this questions but.....

This past weekend my wife had the car out of town and on the trip back home she called and said the top was making a funny noise when she tried to move it. When she got home, I checked out the forum and then found out the fluid in the pump reservoir was low.

I understand this can only mean a leak somewhere but it's not in the latch and I have never seen any fluid on the ground and there is not any in the trunk so I'm thinking either a catastrophic leak developed while she was gone or it is a VERY slow leak.

Well onto the question: If I'm reading the TSB correctly, only MY 99 and earlier had the "old" fluid that needed to flushed out before adding Pentosin CHF 11S (which I found in this little one horse town for $20 a liter )

Vehicle VIN is SAJJA42C7YNA03562 if it makes a difference.

 

The top rams can very slowly leak with little sign other than an oily area on the floor pan in front of the rear tires. While I do not understand it, there are more reports of the right ram leaking than the left.

 

Well the leak can be anywhere from the latch, hoses, rams (left & right) or at the pump. Chances are that the leak is at the rams and if it will make you feel any better both of my rams are leaking around the lift piston. Most of the time you will see a spot or two in front of the rear tires on the driveway. The good thing is that it is not leaking at the latch and I installed the pressure valve. If you go to your back seat you can peak between the headliner and the roof and catch a glimpse of the ram you will see fluid on the outside of it. The one that fails the most is the one on the right as you face forward.
You are correct in the replacement of the fluid from the old to the new and to be honest with you I have no idea what the old looks like. I do know this that if you look at the tank green in color is good. If you elect to change the fluid in made a procedure that is less painful than talking it to Jaguar. It is not that complicated! http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepairHydHose.htm The procedure is under the first set of photos the second photo is the pump.

 

Thanks I had read that also. I'm thinking I need to refill the reservoir and see what happens in the garage so I can see exactly what's going on.

Right this minute, I'm still trying to find out if it's safe to put the "new" Pentosin fluid in my car or do I need to try to flush it out before I add new.

 

Thanks Gus, apparently we were typing at the same time. I read your post and went out and checked and it's green as grass. I think I'll try to refill it (bought an oil can with a flexible spout thanks to another post I read) and operate the top with the trunk taken apart and on the clean garage floor so I can see what is going on.

Thanks for all the help and thanks to you guys, I'm buying another Jag; A 2000 XJ8 with 42k miles, black and tan to share the garage with the XK

 

The wife is still looking for the baster for the turkey!

 

I bought mine a brand new, never been used turkey baster at the Dollar Store. She will never know.