i have a 2005 XK8 that I have so far been unable to get service records on. The car is in great condition but the hydraulic line issues cause me to have a couple of questions.

question number one: If a car has suffered the leaking latch area condition is there permenat tell-tale signs from it? Permanent stains on window upholstery? fluid signs any place that might be apparent if I pulled off window or console trim, etc?
So far I see none, but I may need clues where to look.

second question: in looking over the car I found these hoses and fittings in the fuse box by the drivers left knee. It appears to me, the previous owner may have used the Jaguar kit with the short hose sections to repair this hydraulic issue preemptively. Is this the hose kit splices? What do you think?

The hoses were one on top of the other from the cameras viewing angle. I used my finger to push one aside so that both could be seen. These appear to be hydraulic lines and not coax cable. The inner blond fabric wrap can be seen above my finger.

Any help will be much appreciated

Nash Williams

 

Disregard the second picture. My mistake there

 

Howdy BMJ:
It Sure looks like the splice kit to me. If I were curious about what is going on or has gone on
in the top latch area, I would pull the metal windscreen header cover. Three phillips screws are visible, and one in each end at the "A" pillar hidden by the rubber weatherstrip.

 

+1 on it being the splice kit.

Pull the cover back in the trunk on the pump side (passenger side US). The cables will be marked with the original OEM part numbers if they have not been changed. Plus the original hydraulic lines were bad about shedding their skins, so if you see flaking... they are original.

 

Dr. D and Jag #4,
Thank you both for your replies.
I’m going to pull the windshield header piece and also check the trunk. I hope to find the over pressure limit valve in there.
This (previous) owner appears to have been pretty meticulous in the care of this car.

So far, still lacking records.
Given what little I know, it is beginning to appear the previous owner may be deceased.


Thanks again
BMJ. Nash Williams

 

The inside of the ceiling console (with the reading lights) usually has telltale fluid in it after a roof latch hydraulic leak incident.

 

WhiteXKR
Thanks also for your reply..

Presently, still out of town for Thanksgiving holidays.
Will check all of these items when I get back to the car......

N

 

My XKR has had it's upper latch hoses replaced, but I do not know if the Latch Mechanism itself has been rebuilt with the upgraded seals or not, as that is a failure point as well.

What remains visibly is a thin, dark green, semi-circle along the top inside edge of the drivers side light lens, right in front of the push button, that would indicate anything at all spilled over.

Since I do not know if this fluid was present when I bought it, or resulted in many top up/down cycles after I bought it, I do not know at this time, but judging by the color of the fluid, it is old, thick and dark, it has been there for a while. When the weather is better, I will take a look above and see what is going on, and have the latch rebuilt if it has not already been done.

I would rather switch out the hydraulic latch, to an electric latch and avoid the fluid problem altogether, but that will take some time to either find one that will fit the void, or come up with a design using the original housing and adding some gears, and using one of the original lines to house a cable to spin the 'screw' I will install into the original latch housing to drive an exterior 'straight line' gear strip that will push and pull the original latching equipment.

I plan on using an old drill motor mounted in the engine bay to spin the cable and move the gears to their open and closed positions utilizing all the original components of the latch setup, save the fluid.

 

^^ If you successfully pull that mod off, I will personally nominate you for the 2017/2018 Rube Goldberg Platinum Award....

 

Granted it's a little out there, but it would be fun to see it done.

I've been thinking about a system powered by a magneto ... (kidding).

 

Personally I think everyone is overly concerned about the top Hydralics hose issue. Have I had issues, yes. However I repaired them added a pressure reducer and do not expect any further problems. The factory design works perfect, what you spend time and money wise trying to make work a round IMHO is simply not worth it.

It you just like to tinker, go for it, it's your time and money!

 

Sorry I did not get to your post sooner. The attached link is to my hydraulic system evaluation and at the bottom you will see a link to the repair kit that Jaguar had. It also covers the roof hydraulic roof system.

Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

I do want to mention that many and I mean many have talked about replacing the latch system with an electrical conversion but I have yet to see it done.

 

This is my newly recovered header when my latch leaked. Upholsterer recovered for free after I had the latch rebuilt/uprated.

 

Gus,
I have been reading your information on the hydraulic operating system from almost the beginning of my researching which model years I might want to purchase. Your work is that of a true professional.
I think Walt’s and your answer is the most correct one.

It’s very obvious this system was created by the junior design engineers at Jaguar.
There is really no explanation, other than complete naïveté to hydraulic design requirements for robust systems.

Being in aviation for 47 years I am familiar with many different hydraulic systems and their design.
I can also make some observations as to how your solutions could be refined to give even more reliability.... And better failure margins.

1. From what I can see, there is no absolute requirement for speed of operation....., only desired speed, and the impression that the system is “fast”.
2 Also, there is no certain maximum, and also no minimum established pressure needed for proper operation.
3 pulling interior components and carpet to route new hoses is expensive and best avoided if possible.

The only minimum pressure needed in the system is that needed to reach the limit switches on each end of the up or down operation and finally actuate/ activate the latch.and turn the pump off.

To that end: there are variable over pressure relief valves available that allow, for example, 500 to 2000 psi upper pressure limiting. I saw one of these valves recently for sale at $149.00. The valve is approximately the same size with the added length of about two inches which is the dail. With this valve and some tinkering (experimenting at dialing different pressures in your driveway) one may very well establish acceptable operation at a lower limit ( say 800psi instead of a 1000psi).
Of course, the main cautions would be to establish proper operation and then add a little to accommodate cooler temperatures and........ complete operation to the pump cutoff switch.

Another and possible second course of action would be to search out a means to have the pump itself working on a lower ultimate pressure by means of any adjustment accommodations the pump may have built in.
Most commercially produced pumps have more than one single pressure they are able to operate with. This is simply a commercial expedient to allow more applications.... and for the same equipment to be used.
I plan to take a closer look at my pump soon.

These are only suggestions, but I think worth considering.


Nash Williams

 

You're on the right track. Already done. See the "zero-cost pressure reducer" link in my sig line below.