One month ago a parking attendant raised my convertible top without removing the tonneau. Externally there was a rip in passenger window seal. Now my convertible hydraulic began spewing oil.
Could the stress of raising the convertible top with the Attar he tonneau have caused or contributed to this problem?

 

possible that the extra force along with age deteriorated hoses caused the leak. What year is the car; where is it leaking? Is the black outer coating of the hoses flaking off? When I replaced mine - I used Cabriolet Hydraulics for replacement hoses, others here have used Top Hydraulics - both superior to OEM




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Top raised and lowered well never showing signs of hardening oil. All hoses and rubber on the car are excellent, only 26,000 miles ( bought 4K miles ago). Having said that I'm aware that the hydraulics has potential for deterioration.

The leak came out the small stereo speaker just above the rear view mirror.

When the parking attendant lowered the top with the tounneau on, it snapped with enough force to put a gouge in the rubber sealer over the passengers window. Of course the seal was under the tounneau at the time the roof was raised.

Looks like the Hotel's parking insurance will concede responsibility but I wanted some sense that my claim was justified.

 

I mistakenly said that the parking attendant lowered the top but in fact he raised it with the tounneau attatched.

 

There's little doubt that either your latch hoses or the latch ram or even both are leaking.

 

You can file the claim with a clear conscience. No way to ever know for sure, but the event would have caused an unusual hydraulic pressure pulse in the system and as you said these systems are not as robust as we would like.

It would be quite a coincidence if the leak was going to happen on its own at this exact time.

 

Do a search for 'Green Shower' to find detailed information on the areas that will need cleaning after this event, and make sure the work is done by a reputable Jaguar Dealership, for proper repairs. As far as 'hardening oil', that has not really been proven as the cause of failures in the hydraulic system, as far as I have read. Also, if you do not have the vehicles Owner's Manuals, there are several volumes, and Vehicle Care manuals and such, they can be downloaded from the 'STICKYS' Links on the Post Page. The 'STICKY' Links also have a tonne of information for repairing common problems all the way to engine replacement instructions and tutorials for the X100 with pictures and videos.

The concern is the seals in the Latch Ram itself coming apart, and/or the 'crimps' on the ends of the hydraulic hoses. The original hoses are not rated to handle the pressure the hydraulic system is capable of producing, ~1650+ psi at times during the latching process. High heat exposure to the Latch Ram in the 'Header' while cycling the top has been a cause of premature Ram Seal failure as well.

The Grille above the Rear View Mirror does not house a speaker, it houses an Ultra-Sonic 'Vehicle Occupancy Sensor', along with the silver grille in the Passenger's 'A-Pillar' cover, and the silver grille alongside the Passenger's Door Jamb, are all part of the Supplemental Restraint System, (airbags).

It is good that the Hotel concedes responsibility, get it in writing as soon as possible! Photograph and film EVERYTHING inside and out, you cannot have too much documentation. I would record the conversations with the Hotel staff accepting responsibility for the accident as well.

The hydraulic fluid will go everywhere, and you may find that something stops working a year down the road, and then you will be responsible for repairs. My car had suffered a 'Green Shower' latch failure at some point prior to my ownership, and a malfunctioning Cruise Control 'Set' button had green hydraulic fluid behind it when I took it apart to fix the button.

Schedule appointments for repair estimates ASAP, and present them directly to the Hotel's Insurance Company, time is your enemy in these types of matters, and though they may act like it, the Hotel Staff are not your friends. The more time that passes, the more memories fade, employee's lose their jobs, changes in management, etc., can bury this, you do not want to let them string this along, or end up in a reimbursement type of situation. When they find out how much this is going to cost to put right by the Dealership, they are going to start back peddling responsibility fast, be ready.

I believe your claim is 100% justified. Did you ask the attendant to raise the top? Is there any signage posted stating that they will secure your vehicle, including raising the top on Convertibles? Make sure these types of signs do not suddenly show up at the Parking Lot after the fact by documenting everything posted at the Parking Lot beforehand. Good Luck.

 

THIS is the main reason i am afraid to buy a convertible...is the green shower sure to happen sooner or later with a 2003-2006? how much does the replacement hose cost?
thank you for any info. any referrals in the LA/OC area are appreciated for repair shops.

 

If you spend enough time on these forums, you will never buy a Jaguar, because you will read about every single part on the car failing eventually.

The reality is that you are talking about cars 10-20 years old, that you are paying 10%-20% of the new price for. Bits will go wrong, rubber parts will fail and you have to have a budget for repairs out of the 80%-90% of the money you are saving by not buying new.

 

The short answer is yes!
I accidentally began raising mine that way. I did quickly stop before damaging the cover and / or lifting mechanism, but not before rupturing the latch/ hose connection in the overhead console. I had to cleanup, have latch rebuilt, replace hoses, and reupholster header and A pillars. I was liable and I think that the valet should be also.
(This happened after I had installed the LSI pressure reducer which I still highly recommend.)

 

I hear you! When I researched here before buying my vehicle back in 2008 I was well aware of the green shower but figured it wouldn't happen with me since the car was so little used by previous owners. Imagine my surprise when a couple of months after owing the car I found a drop of oil on the center console after opening the top one day. Fortunately it was still covered under the original warranty so all hoses were replaced. Also I immediately installed one of Gus' relief valves and was happy for a time. But then a couple of months later I try to lower the top and nothing. Now there was a pump motor problem and, again, that was covered and the motor/pump was replaced.

Needless to say these convertible incidents freaked me out so that I find I don't lower the top as much as I should given almost year-round nice weather here.

The local shops I use are in the Valley. Most economical is Rene at European Auto Service in Reseda and the most dealer-like is Just Jaguar in Sherman Oaks. There is also a guy I wanted to try in Canoga Park (Steve's Jaguar) who I heard good things about.

Doug

 

Earlier this year I tried to raise my top with the cover on. Before I caught my mistake the car shut off and stopped everything. I thought it was a safety feature but what if I was traveling at or below the 10 mph limit?

 

Inevitable, no, other than in the sense that nothing lasts forever. I'm on my 2nd XK8 without a hose failure. But hose failures are common; so I would not buy a rag top if I were not prepared to accept manual operation of the convertible top latch, or to replace the hoses myself, or to pay someone to do it

Replacement costs can vary from a few hundred $ to thousands, depending mostly on whether you can do the work yourself.

 

Well that is a bummer!!

 

Actually, I don't think anyone would be all that upset by the eventual failures of the hoses (the most common being the one at the latch) if it were not for the fact that the hose replacement exercise is so damn convoluted what with hoses running from front to rear beneath the interior seats and carpeting. Seems to me that hose replacement should have been an anticipated thing by the designers and that the design could (should) have consisted of a permanent robust center section (metal tubing or something) with fittings at the front and rear resulting in only short, easily accessible pieces of actual hose for replacement.

Doug

 

I do not want to bust a bubble but when the roof close is selected the pump sends pressure to the roof latch to open, once open it trips a switch to divert pressure to the rams. At that point all the pump pressure is diverted to the rams to lift the roof and the roof latch is in a static position and is not in the picture. Evidence is that the roof began to close making contact with the roof cover and damaging the roof seal.

My guess is that the roof latch hose was on its way out and this was the last straw.

 

So as to whether trying to raise the convertible top with its cover in place could contribute to a latch hose failure ... Yes it could, and this is so because:

For the entire time the top is being raised the latch circuit is pressurized, seeing the same pressure as is being applied to raise the top. A pressure spike in one circuit will be felt in the other.

Everything needed to see this is in the attached Jaguar Technical Bulletin, specifically the "Convertible Top Closing Sequence" shown on page 6. Note that when a control valve (Main or Latch) is set to "ON" in this part of the sequence, the corresponding hydraulic circuit is pressurized. The narrative and sequence chart for Steps 3 through 6 (the interval in question) are unambiguous: the latch circuit stays pressurized as the top is going up. And this should not surprise us because while the latch is already raised at this time, leaving pressure on it holds it in full up position in preparation for its being contacted by the claw when the top reaches it.

This is sort of a down-in-the-weeds question, but it does matter as to whether an event like the one described by the OP could effect the latch. So I would invite anyone with an interest to consult the Technical Bulletin and see what it says.

(Also, the above is confirmed by work done on resetting the pump's internal pressure control valves. Resetting the Latch circuit pressure valve does in fact effect the Main circuit pressure as the top is going up.)

 

Had a chance to do a little research and found that you are correct on the closing operation on the roof up operation. Both the Latch & Lift solenoids are engaged however, do not forget that the pump has an internal relief valve to prevent the excessive pressure of the pump to the hoses. So any excessive pressure that the pump could build up because of a blockage of movement will be released back into the pump and not the hoses.

Edit: After giving this a little more thought because the latch and roof up is open to pressure at the same time when closing the latch should have closed if the pressure reached its limit.

 

If only static pressure values mattered, the pump's internal pressure control valves should protect us here. But also the speed of pressure transitions matters, contributes to the stresses on the hoses / hose fittings.

Also, the control valves, being ball-and-spring devices, will take hundreds(?) of milliseconds to react to a pressure change. If some sort of mechanical lurch happens when trying to raise the top with the cover in place, a more abrupt pulse might well be created. The valves might not suppress that.

I really don't know. But two posters in this thread report latch hose failures coincident with trying to raise the top with the cover in place. Maybe just coincidence; maybe not. I don't think we can rule out some sort of cause-and-effect here.