There is only one thing worse that British plastic and it is British electric switches!
That is all, carry on

 

OK I give up. What is the problem?

 

Which of course are at least partially British plastic!

But seriously, plastic in general is bad unless it is cycolac.

 

Every time something plasticky breaks, I keep looking for "made in china" on it, yet keep running into "made in england"

For example, roundish bezel around J-gate has 2 switches on it and both have already fallen through the housing and got JBWelded before me, however this does not change the intermittent nature of their own performance. On top of it all, roof control switch fell out of its place, because metal retainer broke out of plastic that holds it against the external, coin holder, housing. These are the little things that make me go: ....really, $86K sticker, srsly? How about ordering them switches and plastics from Japan, or maybe even good China and by doing so letting them ******* in some quality forgotten parts of UK go out of business, or better yet work on improving their processes!?... The only petroleum based parts that I did not have to glue, or replace had Ford, or Bosch written on them.
I understand that my car came from Floridia, but 6 years before that it spent in MI and OH, so it is like the south of UK. So excessive heat and the car being black argument will not fly.

 

those switches get 'separated' from the trim piece VERY easily, a slight drop of something atop them and their tab breaks. I replaced my sport mode switch after getting the car (it fell through also), then a few weeks later, dropped my phone accidentally on it, now the switch has to be 'massaged' just right in order to get it to lock in to SPORT mode.

 

I know, Jaguar take a careful "massage therapist" of an owner and it's a part of the game

 

Yeah, and I just noticed that the exterior door handles on my wife's XJ8 are chrome-plated plastic. I know they were trying to keep the weight down, but plastic door handles???? Go figure.

 

Ok, my first post, but as you can see from my location I am well versed in poor quality electrics. A bit of history will explain why.... Joseph Lucas (prince of darkness) was a manufacturer of various auto electrics. Back in the 20's he masterminded a non-competitive agreement between the auto electrical suppliers worldwide. They all signed up to this agreeing that they would not sell into each other's markets. Lucas paid Autolite (US) $55,000 a year to keep out of the UK market. This was fine for several decades where most cars had 2 switches and a few feet of cable, but from the 50's onwards reliable electrics became quite important. Bosch and Nippon made good electrics, Delco ok, Magnetti Marelli and Lucas were very bad. UK and Italian cars broke down all the time. The UK motorcycle industry in the 50's and 60's made most of the world's bikes, the Japanese came along with less good machines but with electrics that worked when wet. The UK motorcycle industry collapsed in a handful of years. The years rolled on... Uk manufacturers were tied to Lucas making worse and worse electrics, if you think the Jag is bad you haven't seen the cheap car switches in the 80's that literally fell apart when touched. By the mid 90's the prince was failing and the company was broken up. Too late for the XK since it had already been designed. The short answer is that Joseph Lucas, Prince of Darkness, left a legacy that still haunted the UK car industry 100 years after he passed on.

 

Ok, my first post, but as you can see from my location I am well versed in poor quality electrics.

A bit of history will explain why.... Joseph Lucas (prince of darkness) was a manufacturer of various auto electrics. Back in the 20's he masterminded a non-competitive agreement between the auto electrical suppliers worldwide. They all signed up to this agreeing that they would not sell into each other's markets. Lucas paid Autolite (US) $55,000 a year to keep out of the UK market.

This was fine for several decades where most cars had 2 switches and a few feet of cable, but from the 50's onwards reliable electrics became quite important. Bosch and Nippon made good electrics, Delco ok, Magnetti Marelli and Lucas were very bad. UK and Italian cars broke down all the time.

The UK motorcycle industry in the 50's and 60's made most of the world's bikes, the Japanese came along with less good machines but with electrics that worked when wet. The UK motorcycle industry collapsed in a handful of years.

The years rolled on... Uk manufacturers were tied to Lucas making worse and worse electrics, if you think the Jag is bad you haven't seen the cheap car switches in the 80's that literally fell apart when touched.
By the mid 90's the prince was failing and the company was broken up.
Too late for the XK since it had already been designed.

The short answer is that Joseph Lucas, Prince of Darkness, left a legacy that still haunted the UK car industry 100 years after he passed on.

 

Damn, it all makes sense, all of the sudden! Cos I was thinking that "smart" Brits kept coming back to Lucas for more and more plague.
I do own 82 XJS V12, you know, so no need to tell me stories about British Leyland, Marks and Engels...

 

As quoted by XK8+XJ8L
I cannot believe they would make door handles out of plastic ( I believe you) I've replaced many metal ones because they break, Ford vehicles in particular. I can imagine whats going to happen a few years down the road.

 

Mish, sounds like you need the bumper sticker...

 

My first Jag was a 1993 XJ6 VDP, and I could go on and on about Mr. Lucas' contribution to my near mental breakdown. But in the door handle department, it had nice, shiny, flush metal handles. The term "metal" sounds like they were strong, but the brilliant designers made them from pot metal and the key stress point was a small eye where the linkage connected to the inside of the handle flap. This was WAY underdesigned and broke on two of my handles. The killer is that they get like $300 for the replacements. I reworked them to better than new using bits of sheet metal, epoxy and teenie tiny screws, but it was very tedious.

Cheers,

 

This sound like explicit collusion, a very illegal stuff in most of the world...
I'd believe this story to be true 50 years ago, but recently it would have to be no longer true.
Also, how come most of the electric in XK is Denso and Bosch?

 

I've seen some quality disappointments in every Jag I've owned or worked on...mostly plastic parts and small switches, yes. Jags are and always have been built down to a price...something has to give.

There's always been ballyhooing about low grade "British rubber" as well. I've never seen eveidence of it, not on Jags, at least. Cooling hoses, door weatherstrips, etc seem to hold up at least as well as any other I've seen.

I've long felt the whole "Lucas thing" is way overblown. Not entirely untrue, mind you, just overblown. Like Jaguars, Lucas electrics are generally good but there are some disappointments. The Lucas starters, alternators, relays, coils, and many other things are as long lasting as any other. As a rule, though, Lucas switches generally just seem to be pretty bad.

Getting back to Jaguar penny-pinching, I'm fairly certain that if Jaguar had specified and been willing to PAY for higher grade switches and wiring connectors (among other things) Lucas would have been happy to supply them. Jaguar was still using non-sealed bullet connectors in (weather-exposed areas of the cars) well into the 1980s. I can't believe that Lucas didn't or wouldn't offer, at a higher price, sealed connectors.

Legends do die hard, though. I've heard some owners of modern-ish Jags complain bitterly about electrical problems...not realizing that the misbehaving widget in question was made by Bosch, Delphi, Valeo, or Nippondenso :-)

Cheers
DD

 

You are correct, the European Union outlawed this practice in the 80's. All those restrictive practices are now gone.

Agree with the switches, but disagree with the alternators, bearings brushes and rectifiers were poor at best.

Interesting point about the sealed connectors, several of my neighbours work for Jag, i will ask them why they didn't buy sealed connectors.

 

exactly the same problems with the Ford handles on the Explorer, and the F Series trucks the weak spot was the tab where the linkage was, the only difference they were around $30.00.

 

Perhaps so, but, still, the starters and alternators seem to last as long as any others, in my experience. I've worked on (and owned) many 15-20+ year old Jags/MGs still running on the originals ! That's a respectable life by anyone's measure.

Cheers
DD

 

Easy Fix, Don't buy a British car if you are going to moan. Stick to American brands, only of course if you don't have to turn corners!!!

 

If they would actually use good plastic, it might not be so bad because some of it is superior to pot metal castings.

Take for example cycolac which is the plastic that was used for payphones and Bell supplied phones in the 70's and 80's before the breakup.

You could bang the receiver against the hook, or a desk to get the other end to shutup for a second ... and no damage ... to the phone. The desktop and the other person's ears was another story.