I'll take a look at the links you've cited and see if I can get anywhere. I'm not getting any error codes on the scanner, it just won't clear those 3 monitors.

Thank you for the info.

 

You're laboring under some delusions. I've made a career out of that.

I have access to four "high end" scan tools at my friend's Euro car shop. From older ones, to very new ones. NONE of them will tell you squat about an O2 sensor. If you're looking for a scan tool to tell you if a sensor is operating, or why a monitor isn't being set, then you're on a fool's errand. None of them will tell you that. Which really sucks, IMO. But it's a sad fact. BTW, I had to clear codes thanks to what ultimately appears to have been a flakey MAF, and now my CAT monitor doesn't want to set. Again. Ugh.

Anyway, the drive cycles are a bunch of bunk. On cars with good cats I've never had to do one. On cars with marginal cats the drive cycles have never worked. All you can do is to replace your downstream O2 sensors, and then check the cat temps. Get the car hot by a long drive, get under it, and measure the temps at the manifold, and then at the downstream sensor. If the temps are more or less equal you have a bad cat and the monitor will never, ever, set. To make matters more frustrating, you'll never get a cat-related error code until the monitors do set.
And the car will drive perfectly fine until the smog ***** take it away from you.

EVAP isn't that hard, it's just extremely tedious (and completely optional in California). In my experience, my EVAP wouldn't set, and never set a CEL, when my Canister Close Valve was dead. Once I fixed that I started to get CELs. I also started smelling fuel at times. That indicated a bad purge valve, so I replaced it. And the CELs continued. Long story short, I smoke tested the system and found cracks in one of the canisters, and a leaky o-ring on the other. After replacement the EVAP set. The annoying thing is that the EVAP purge only runs when the tank is between 3/4 and 1/4, and only every other tankful. However, the EVAP monitor itself will set more often, for some reason, because mine sets up after only a few miles of driving after a code reset. Anyway, EVAP is the least of your worries. But if you care to chase it, you'll need a scan tool that will close the purge valve for a period of time, and a smoke machine that will inject low-pressure smoke into the fuel filler neck. Then you can check for leaks in the canisters, the connecting hoses, the valves themselves, etc.

But the most important thing is your health. I hope your hand heals quickly, with no lingering side-effects. It kinda reminds me of my GF, who sustained a bullet wound in her right hand years ago. Long story. Surgery and physical therapy...

 

Hey Jag,

So if I'm understanding you I should just replace the downstream sensors and see what happens. Sounds like all that computer equipment that the government makes manufacturers put into cars, and cost us more, does absolutely nothing, except cost more and make money for repair shops. I've ordered the Denso sensors. Hopefully I'll be dexterous enough to replace them once the stitches come out. I guess I'll see what happens next. I've got until the end of this month to get it registered.

Joe

 

That's the first step. Yes, Uncle Sugar and his handmaidens in CA sure have our best interests at heart. Some countries don't have the downstream sensors. All they do is to check to see if the cat is working well, or not. The downstream ones are pretty easy. There's a straight shot. I posted a pic, in another thread, of the crow's foot socket I used. That and a couple of feet of extensions and you'll be good.

You can send in your registration fee before the deadline to avoid a penalty. You just won't get your sticker until the smog shop does the test and transmits it to the state.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but you can see in the live data the values from all the O2 sensors. The scanner won't tell you if the values are correct or not, but you can certainly see what they are and compare them to a known good car. It's an obvious thing to check before replacing them.

 

morning Dibbit,

What I was saying earlier was that the instructions for my iCarsoft scanner do not tell me how to get to the "live data".

Joe

 

just run the engine module test and you are there with all the data

 

Ok, now I understand. Maybe someone with the same code reader can point you to the right menu. We have lists of all the PID numbers (ID codes for all the different sensors) if this isn't already preset (I would imagine it is).
​​​​​
Cross posted with Zray above.

 

OK this is what I get when my LR V2.0 is plugged in: (sorry about the size of the photos)




















There is no system list screen that brings up a function list to select the engine control module. it just allows me to run the auto scan. And now I got the fault codes that you see. I guess I'm driving a stolen car!! Better watch out for "50"

 

This is why, if I can ever get this car registered it's going to be sold and I'm buying a car with no computer in it. At my age I'm too damn old for a car to have more than an engine, gas tank, gas pedal, and a key. All I want is to get in, turn the key, put it in gear, step on the gas and go. I don't need the government telling me if my computer monitors have reset to the point where they can tell my car to run. Should have never sold the '62 Healey!! :-)

 

Looks like the LR v2 got improved over the v1 to the point of uselessness.

Glad I was too cheap to get the v2

is your engine running during this diagnostic routine ? Or just the key turned to “ON” ?

if my engine isn’t running I have no results from the LR v1

Z

 

The instructions say to just turn the ignition "on" so no, the engine is not running. I can go turn the engine on and see what happens.

 

OK, I'm officially dumber than the computer in the car or the computer I bought to read the computer in the car. This time I plugged the scanner in and started the car and went to the "OBDII/EOBD" selection on the main menu and there was a selection for "live data", which I selected. (note: there is no section in the manual that has any info on this). I eventually went to a screen where I could select various monitors (not sure that's the correct term) and I brought up the O2 sensor voltage. There was one for "B1-S2" and another for "B2-S2". I recorded what they read. (I tried to send the videos to myself but got a message on my phone that the files were too large and wanted me to "air drop" them. Again, I'm old and the phone is smarter than me so I can't do that, whatever air drop is). I can tell you the readings on B1-S1 were between .95 V and .130 V. The B2-S2 was between .405 V and .705 V. There was also a selection for Oxygen Sensor Current and those readings were between (B1-S1) -60 mA and .29 mA and (B2-S1) -127.00 mA and 124.0 mA.

I'm not sure what all that means right now but I'll be searching to find out.

 

So I'm reading several articles about O2 sensor readings and they all talk about readings in Volts. So why is my upstream reading giving me mA?

 

From what I'm reading about the Downstream sensor it is supposed to read around .5 Volts. On mine Bank 2 looks to be holding at around .6 or thereabouts. However Bank 1 is hovering around .1 - .2, which is low. The only info I've found so far says that only a fluctuating reading means a bad sensor. Therefore, are my downstream sensors ok?

 

everyone on the forum knows more than I do about O2 sensors. Hopefully someone will chime in on those numbers.

Z

PS: keep scrolling down and you will find the fuel trim numbers . If they say N/A just keep scrolling down and the next set of them might be active. At least that’s the MO on my icarsoft LR-v1

 

PS: one can not rely on just the instructions. They will always be incomplete.

you have to experiment. Try the “Diagnostic” selection instead of the “OBD-II” selection and see where that leads, etc.


Z

 

So I figured how to get the videos from my phone to my computer. That Gates guy has nothing on me when it comes to tech stuff!! Here are the readings for the Upstream, Downstream and Fuel Trim settings:

Well, so much for my tech skills. It says the files are too big to upload. First time "too big" has ever been used in my presence.

Anyway, the O2 sensors are what I said they were reading above and the Fuel Trim read as follows:
Bank 1 Short Term - 0.8% to 1.6%
Bank 1 Long Term - 7.0%
Bank 2 Short Term - 0.8% to 1.6%
Bank 2 Long Term - 9.4%

I'm trying to look these numbers up to see what they mean.

 

Yes, you will only get live data when the engine is running - you also want the engine to be warm.

B1-S1 should mean the upstream sensor Bank 1
B1-S2 should mean the downstream sensor Bank 1

You also need the values for the Bank 2 B2 versions of those. The upstream sensors are wideband (I'm not sure if that is on all the engine versions, so you need to check) which is why the values are in mA, downstream are narrowband (so the data is in Volts). You can also get the lambda values if you look, which should be close to 1. Double check your figures because Bank 1 / Bank 2 upstream values should be in the same units ditto for the downstream units.

For reference on my car:-

Lambda 0.97 to 1.04
S1 -0.2ma to +0.2ma
S2 0.2v to 0.7v
MAF 5.1 g/s
RPM 650

This is with the engine fully warmed up, outside air temp 15ēC

I've got to say Torque looks a lot easier to use than the icarsoft.

ETA:-

Those fuel trim numbers (assuming they are positive) mean that the computer is adding fuel to both banks, which suggests an air leak (or the upstream O2 sensors are both over reading by a similar amount) - the engine is getting more air than the computer is calculating (MAF could be under reading), the O2 sensors read a lean condition and the computer compensates with more fuel. IIRC 20% is the maximum before a code is triggered.
​​​
Bank 1 Short Term - 0.8% to 1.6%
Bank 1 Long Term - 7.0%
Bank 2 Short Term - 0.8% to 1.6%
Bank 2 Long Term - 9.4%

 

Morning Dibbit,

Yes, the fuel trim numbers are all positive. The engine is running smoothly at all rpms. Shouldn't I get some rough idle if there's a vacuum leak? Everything I'm finding on the O2 sensors is giving me info in Volts, not milliamps so I'm not sure what the upstream sensors are showing. The info on the downstream sensors are saying they should read a steady +.5 Volts. So my questions on those are 1/ is Bank 1 bad with the low readings 2/ is Bank 2 bad because of the amount of fluctuation?

Joe

upstream sensors
Bank 1 - 0.49 mA - +0.29 mA
Bank 2 -0.127 mA - +0.124 mA
downstream sensors
Bank 1 .095 V - .210 V
Bank 2 .435 V - .725 V
The fuel trims are;
Bank 1 Short Term 1.6% - 8.0%
Long Term 7.0% - 7.0%
Bank 2 Short Term 1.6% - 8.0%
Long Term 9.4% - 9.4%