Car: 1998 XK8
Mileage: 65k on the clock.
Preemptive note: I know next to NOTHING about Auto transmissions. My only experience with them is with a 4L60-E. However, I'm not inept to mechanics, I can handle a wrench alright. My knowledge on the Jag is limited to the timing the strut mounts and various electrical components.
Goal: To repair this thing myself with some guidance, I'll pull the trans and take pics along the way if you guys can walk me through what I'm looking at.

Problem:
So... a few weeks ago I was driving the jag and I hit the gas to avoid being hit. I heard the car down shift normally, then up shift once the speed built. As I slowed down it downshifted with a loud BANG. I limped it home. I then promptly hurt my back and couldn't do a thing. So today, feeling a bit better, I jacked the car up. I crawled underneath, and I noticed a small bit of fluid coming out of the "window" in the bellhousing where you would put the plug into the flywheel when doing the timing. So, I decided to get the car up to operating temp and check the fluid. I took it out and it lagged with a stutter on the 1-2 shift. But only once, it drove normally otherwise. The next problem occurred when I threw the car in reverse. It went into reverse just fine however upon putting it back into drive, nothing. The car sits like it's in neutral. I tap the gas and the engine blips up to 2200rpm or so, then I can feel something start to happen and the car lurches forward as it throws the transmission fault, 5th gear limp ect. I then turn the car off and on again, and the code clears. Interestingly, it shifts from park to drive just fine. However, on occasion there is the 1-2 stutter and it refuses to go from reverse to drive.

Now, if I shift it to park from reverse it will go. If I then shift to drive from park it will go.

My first thought was A-drum, however if I'm not mistaken the A-drum has nothing to do with reverse correct?

Are there any diagnostics I can do before pulling the trans out? Should I just get to pulling this thing out today, cracking it open and taking some pics for you guys to look at? Should it be pretty obvious (like a 2-4 band in a 4l60-e) just by looking at the drums and what not?

 

Are you sure you cable is adjusted properly? Sounds like an issue I had with another car. Out of adjustment cable was not finding the correct gears.

 

Squirrel, did you look thru the ZF repair documents in the FAQ thread? It should be pretty close. I could not find any 5HP documents as detailed as the 6HP that we have.

 

I did read the repair docs, I also read the shifter cable thread which sounded suspiciously like mine until I got the 1722 and the car currently limps around in 5th gear.

I pulled the pan, Though I haven't the slightest what I'm looking at. I discovered lots of removal marks on the fasteners, as well as white out on the drive shaft. even the exhaust bolts are nice and loose. I'm guessing someone has been in this trans before I bought the car. The white out is fresh...


I'll post pics of the inside of the pan and what appears to be metal goo attached to what I' guessing to be four magnets placed at the corners of the inside of the pan. There is what looks to be additional "metal goo" in a few spots however I will leave that for the experts to tell me.

Otherwise the inside of the trans looks brand new. Everything is nice and clean, I didn't see and chunks or anything that would leave me to believe it's abnormal.

-Shaun

 

A note: the fluid looked fairly black upon draining it, but thinned out on the bottom of the pan it looked ok. The picture is not real representative of the color as the flash makes it appear a much more golden brown than it looks like in person.

Additionally this a good read for those with the urge to change the filter and oil in their 5hp24
http://home.comcast.net/~vicent/trannye38.html

Also the torque specs on the pan bolts are 10nm with 30nm for the drain plug.

 

you need to find out the codes in the trans to help diag. alot of times slamming is a torque convertor fault. But you need codes, the tcm(trans control module) will list the fault. But you need a Jaguar scanner to read the tcm, occassionally the tcm will also throw into the ecu

 

Ok, so..... only the jag dealership can pull those codes. I'll re-assemble this bad boy and bring it to the dealership and see what they pull. I'm assuming that since you didn't comment on the pics that the pan looks perfectly normal for the mileage. Additionally, I have one question for you. The problems were happening w/o throwing a CEL. Are you telling me that fault codes can be stored in he tcm w/o triggering an ecu fault ie. a CEL?

I almost forgot, THANK YOU for chiming in!! Actually, thank you in general for being available on the board to help people on a regular basis. I think i speak for everyone, (even those that don't say it) that it is truly good of you to help the lot of us out.

 

Double post, sorry

 

I'd also like to thank you H20Boy. I don't think I would have gotten half this far without you and TestPoint whipping me the whole way with words of encouragement. So thank you guys as well!

 

When I had the problems with 171, 174 codes, the CEL would not come on immediately. I would clear the codes, start the car and check for them, and they would be in a "Codes Pending" Section. I had heard/read that it takes couple of times for the problem to be confirmed before the light comes on.
Good luck with this issue, it sounds scary!
Brian

 

I also think Gus repaired is A-drum/B-drum himself, if you need to get further in, he might be able to help you, and he may already have a page on his website documenting it.

 

Yes if you look in the code manual there are many codes that get stored and has a "n" for no in the column under "check engine light on? Y/n" you may want to talk to a tranny shop first though since they "should" have scanner to perform tcm diag...that said though we do get alot of cars coming in here from trans shops that need codes read or reflashes done after repairs so...

 

squirrel

the http://www.autoenginuity.com/ scanner with the advanced jag system can scan every system in your car including your trans computer.

 

squirrel, I'll loan you my AE if you cover shipping to/from hawaii. Send me a PM if you want.

 

So I finally hooked up the scanner today and the only additional code it pulled was for a trans temp sensor...


I'm nice and lost now. I'm about 70% of the way on tranny removal. I'm going to inspect the A-drum and see if I can't find where the transmission fluid is coming from that is leaking from the check hole in the front of the bell housing...maybe I'll get lucky and a seal will be bad and I can just replace it and be on my merry way....or maybe not. Not with my luck.

I found the source of my mysterious coolant leak today as well...looks like it's streaming from the water pump, and I discovered a brand new oil leak coming from the cam sensor area...Yeah.

 

Update, trans is out, manual should arrive today! Time to tear this thing down....

 

Good luck, I applaud your bravery in doing this yourself. I also feel your pain, as working on a seat heating issue has buggered my back for the last couple weeks.

 

Was just talking about u in another thread. Wish u luck.

 

Ok today entailed removal and inspection of A and B drums. A drum and B-drum I believe are new. They looked to have been replaced, as I found several tool marks by the snap rings. Otherwise, no burnt smell from the clutch packs or the fluid. I couldn't see anything resembling damage to anything inside the trans. What I did see was what appeared to be a thin layer of what looked like fine metal dust on everything. It looked like kind of a light black dusting of wet transmission fluid coated metal. What it is, I dunno.

So recap,

guts of trans look great, no burnt smell from clutch packs or fluid. A and B drums look great. Only additional trans code is temp sensor. I'm lost.

 

When my A&B drum failed my transmission guy and I talked about the shavings and elected to replace the torque converter. His reasoning was the entire trans was rebuilt and any shavings from the A&B drums would still be in the converter that could invade the rebuilt trans. The way I saw it is that changing it was the right thing to do.