I have been reading this with much interest as I am thinking that since I am this far to go ahead and drop-out the mechatronics (valve body) and replace those five seals as well. I got the fluid kit from thectcs.com which does include the mechatronic sleeve but not the other five. I checked their web site this morning and they have the pump adapter seal, but the four tubular seals are currently not available. So far have not been able to locate them, any recommended sources?

Thanks

 

This guy has a good write-up, with part#: transmissionfault

Lately, I have found eBay has a lot of new parts...

 

If you go back to my first post in this thread you can see where I got the tubes on Amazon. They were sold out when I checked again a few days ago, but I believe others had them as well.

I think you will be happier with the CTS kit, It is the OEM one. Mine was a 3rd party (also linked in the first post) and that’s why I eventually wasn’t surprised that my mechatronic sleeve didn’t fit, and went back to the old one. I tried for about 20 minutes to get it to go, but it just wouldn’t get to a spot that the tab would slide in. My thought process was that based on what others have done, I’d probably be doing another flush to get the remainder of the old fluid out in a few months anyway, and I’d just replace the sleeve with an OEM one at that time. I liked that the kit came with all new screws, and the bridge seal, and those seemed fine, even the pan looked comparable to the OEM one. But in hindsight I really wish I had paid the extra for the OEM kit, and the shipping that went along with it.

Also, get a better transfer pump then the one that fits on the quart bottle I used, that was a pain in the but to switch bottles with out making a mess, and it didn’t fully reach the bottom, it would come about 4-6oz short.

The only thing going for the drip, is it is red, and that would be the new fluid I used, the old was yellowish brown. And so I’m more inclined to think that it didn’t come from the torque converter itself, since that is probably the one place that still has much of the old fluid. But that is just a theory, and a hope. When I get back next week, I will take the time to clean everything up well, and see if I can figure out where the drip came from. If I can’t I will start it up again, with thinner work gloves, and make sure it is up to 40c and check levels. And go from there.

 

I was able to find all the seals, got all ZF ones upon John's experience. Now just waiting for the five seals to arrive, which gives me time to get an 8mm hex key, and a transfer pump.

Thank you John, the info you provided will sure help me out. Looking to see what you find-out about that leak.

 

This is great and I just watched that video!

I have been suffering that whine from the trans that the mech talks about since I've owned this amazing machine. I think I actually even posted here asking about it once - way back when. Could it really be as simple as a non OEM filter? I need to check that out. Overdue for a fluid change anyways. Great stuff here! Love this forum!

 

So I finally got back on this project. I got home late on Tuesday, and procrastinated digging into this until this morning. I think I was a bit afraid of what I'd find. Popped off the cap, and found a shallow pool inside the bottom of the case that had red fluid in it, but couldn't see any active leaks. So I thought I'd check the fluid level again. I made the stupid mistake of popping off the fill cap, before starting the car, because I totally forgot how that worked. Quickly got out from under the car and started the engine, but still lost a bit of fluid. I waited until the transmission was up to about 35c and ran through the gears, and started pumping fluid back in, It took me a while to do it this time, and the temp was just above 40 before I got the stream. Then remembering my past experience, I tried using the thinner gloves to put the cap back in. But kept failing, since I had no feel, and I couldn't get it to catch a thread. Finally I said screw it, and went bare handed again, and got it but in the mean time the temp had kept climbing, and I was approaching 50c. After it was capped a little bit, I shut off the engine, and finished tightening the fill plug to torque. In the mean time I had burned my upper arm a bit up by my armpit on the center muffler when I was trying to reach back over my gloved hand to help. Needless to say, I know many have done this job on jack stands before, but I don't think I will try again, next time is on a lift.

So, then I went back in the house to wait a couple of hours to see if the drip from the bell housing re appeared. To my great surprise it didn't seem to, so I took it off the stands, and took it for a ride around the block. No big dripping again. So I put a drip pan under, and waited a few more hours. Came out, and hardly anything. So I took it for a bit of a longer run, but still probably only 30 minutes. Looked under, and still no dripping. I have a chunk of cardboard under, instead of the drip pan, and will see what happens, but hopefully problem solved, unfortunately I still don't know what it was.

But of course it can't be all good. I will follow up with another post on a mostly unrelated matter, but looks like I need new transmission cooler lines. Yay me.

 

Well done and thanks for the update. You always had to get in there again to check ATF levels especially if it’s overfilled.

If I ever have to do the job again on my car, I’ll also consider dropping the exhaust for safer access. Burning yourself is no fun!

Hope your transmission cooler lines are ok.

 

Hey everyone, I'm a newbie here - in fact this is my first ever attempt to post - so forgive me when I screw up any forum protocol if you will! I read this thread with great interest as I did this procedure a couple months ago on my '04 XKR. I opted for a steel pan conversion so I can just buy filters in the future and the fill procedure is so much easier as the pan has a filling provision in the center rear ... more than a foot from any exhaust pipes!

What I'm looking to find out is, what have you found with that leak in the bell housing? I had and still have the same problem! I did the exact same procedure you did (I even opted to send the valve body out and had it re-manned). Everything went together like warm butter and then that leak developed. This happened late October so I only got to drive the car for about a week and then November came in with our typical 2 feet of snow so it was time to put the car up. But in that whole week it never stopped leaking! It might sit for a day and not leave a drop, then it would sit for 2 days and leave a puddle under it of anywhere from 8 to 12 ounces!! I might add though that aside from that the x-mission did work just fine. So I put the car up for the winter (literally, I bought a lift this year - awesome to have!! - and now my garage is packed, I have to put the car in the air so I can put the motorcycles under it!) and I put a pan beneath the trans. It continued leaking at a rate of up to an ounce per day. After nearly 2 months of the car just sitting there and the engine never being turned over it had leaked about 50 ounces - and was STILL dripping several drops per day!! It doesn't even seem possible, almost like it's siphoning or something. When removing the fill plug oil still came out so I risked starting it. When I did it went into gear fine but within seconds I got the "trans fault" message, so I shut it off. Being well fed up by now I pulled the pan, only got about 1 gallon of fluid out, can't for the life of me see anything wrong up there. The leak simulates a leak from the input seal in the front, but I have found that ZF in their infinite wisdom have run a tube from the vent right into the top of the bell housing so any fluid escaping from the vent simulates a seal leak. Thanks ZF! What was their point? I'm pretty convinced it's all from the vent, there's no reason that seal should've just failed, but I'm at a total loss as to what's causing it. The firm that did the VB reman is scratching their heads too. No one seems to have any answers and then I run across your thread here and that picture of exactly what I had to deal with.

So, is yours still leaking too? Did you ever find what caused it? Damn, at this point I'd pay money to know now!

 

I'm posting this quickly,,, and I could be way off, so please, take a second opinion...

I have an xk8 02. I changed the fluid and filter. Was not a bad job in my book. I have an XJS... Talk about occasional pain, lol. Anyways, I also had a leak after reassembly. It was alarming. Never 8 or 12 oz,,, which is a lot. Maybe you are over estimating?

Anyways, someone sent this picture to me in reference to work I am doing on my xkr... I can't find the article now, but what was suggested in the article is that on overfill, or occasionally, agitation, trans function/action and fluid movement (especially on over fill) will push it's way up and out through this vent. It was bad enough that Jag made the bulletin and people were coming in thinking all kinds of holy hell was breaking loose.

Mine stopped leaking,,, I dare think, self regulated fluid level,,, and is shifting and running fine... Hope this is useful. And I hope I'm not steering you wrong.

Maybe you didn't fill warm enough, and now the fluid has expanded and is overful?

OH,,, IF YOU WOULD, I WOULD LOVE LOVE LOOVE TO SEE ANY INFO ON THAT STEEL PAN!!!

 

Yep, that's all the info I came up with too. When I filled the trans I'd put a level on the machined surface and made sure it was right on level, filled it right by the book. After the initial fill I started it to finish the fill and it wouldn't take any more! That baffled me, but after an hour or so I tried again and it took fluid just fine. Everything I did with draining/filling this thing I, as accurately as I could, measured everything that came out and everything that went in. I drained out 230 ounces (that doesn't include a few ounces that would still be in the filter and valve body - and the valve body got sent out and remanned). I had 8 liters of new fluid (270 ounces), everywhere I read it says the steel pan will take about 1 liter less so it bothered me when, by the time I got done filling I only had about 28 ounces left. It had theoretically taken in over 240 ounces, about 45 ounces more than it was supposed to! That's about 1 1/3 liters.

After that the leak started. I refused to think that the input seal would decide to fail right then and there (seeing as they almost never fail anyway), I think it pretty much HAS to be coming out of the vent (and running down as per your diagram, emulating a seal leak). The thing is it never stopped leaking long after 1.3 liters leaked out. During the week I drove it I can only guess how much leaked on the floor (or while driving) but I wasn't kidding when at least twice it left puddles of no less than 8 ounces and likely more. I'd say at least 1/2 and as much as 1 full liter leaked out during that week. The killer is, even after I put the car on the lift for the winter from November 3 that engine never turned a single revolution and by Dec. 28 I had caught about 50 more measured ounces in my drain pan ... and it was STILL seeping several drops per day! 2 months - still dripping!! So do the math, 230 oz. out, 242 in (when it was allegedly supposed to only take about 197), 50 plus 15-32 ounces (or more) leaked out leaves between 160 and 175 ounces left in. I drained it again, got about a gallon plus and it's probably dripped a bit more the past week.

As for the steel pan, apparently there are 2 different types and it's probably easiest to refer to them as the black one and the silver one, you can find numerous pics all over the internet. I don't know anything about the pans Ford uses. I THINK the silver one is the one that is supposed to fit the Range Rovers and I'm sure that that one would have the 1 liter less capacity. The black one sure seems to look about the same size as the plastic one, I should try filling them on the bench and see what they take. Then you have to subtract a bit for the space the separate filter takes up. It's a nice heavy duty pan and it has the >1" fill port in the center rear that goes up and stands roughly 1/2"-3/4" proud of the mounting surface (the normal fill plug in the trans is just 1/2" above the machined surface) with a white plastic "T" shaped shield over it. Fluid apparently runs out of the valve body right at that point so if the engine is running and that T isn't there it'll run right back out the fill hole. To fill it I bought a 1.5 gallon pump up sprayer at Harbor Freight for about $12, removed the wand and put on a length of clear tubing. It worked like a charm!! I also install a tire valve stem in the top and just charge it with an air hose. Anyone that has more knowledge about these pans or anything else, feel free to chime in!

Meanwhile, if John Nevets is still out there and would kindly give us an update on what he's found with his leak, I'm all ears!

 

There are two possible causes for that leak.

One you overfilled the transmission and it overflowed thru a duct at the top of the transmission inside the bell housing. It is there for that purpose apparently.

Two the transmission front seal, in the pump, is leaking. Which is bad news.

That just happened to me and in fact I have the transmission out and am in the process of rebuilding it. Some of my clutches show slight burning.

I am detailing all of this in another thread.

I have the ZF6HP26 transmission.

 

There have been reports of challenges for the refill procedure with the metal pan. From what I understand, there is a drain plug and a separate fill plug on the pan itself. The installation of the metal pan is supposed to result is one less litre of fluid as compared to the plastic pan, somehow. Someone reported doing this conversion a while back and ending up with way less fluid than necessary, and going back to filling from the side of the trans instead to get the proper level. I assume the fill plug in the pan is somehow elevated to result in a proper fluid level, but who knows if this works for an X100. Maybe give a call to a reputable place like CTSC or Ericson Industries (ZF support) for advice. On the face of it, yours was likely overfilled. Did you do the temperature-based procedure?

 

It sure seems like it overfilled. And all that leakage I was beginning to think was the trans expelling excess and setting its own level. But whereas I thought it took about 45 or so ounces too much it spit out considerably more (more than double that), and, strangely, even after sitting idle for 2 full months! Yes, I did it by temp and did everything right by the book. I just couldn't believe it kept taking fluid long after I thought it should be full but with the engine idling, temp in the 30's nothing was dribbling out of the fill hole so I kept pumping it in until it did.

Yes, the the steel pan has both a small drain plug and a fairly large (>1") fill port near each other in the bottom. The fill port is basically a tube that runs up to about 1/2" to 3/4" above the gasket surface. The bottom of the normal fill plug we have in the side is exactly 1/2" above the mating surface so that would seem in order. For that matter I can't for the life of me figure out why you still can't use that fill plug level as a level check regardless of how much the pan holds as the level of the fluid is what's important. But, whatever.

I don't know for a fact whether this particular style pan holds 1 liter less or not. I'm assuming it does but the pan is obviously different from the other steel pan used on the Range Rovers (which I believe is purposefully thinner to allow installation in that vehicle). My big issue is why and how did it continue to leak long after it had spit out the excess and for a full 2 months since the engine had even been run! Almost like it had developed the worlds' slowest siphon!

Last night I found a thread by a "LoganR" that praised a firm on the west coast called Transmissions Express so I dropped them a line, still waiting to hear back.

 

Well, I sort of had the problem fixed, and yes it was what most have figured. I took it to a mechanic, and it was overfilled. He was able to fix that problem (hasn't come back in 4 months or so). If I remember correctly, even though he doesn't usually work on Jag's, he was able to find enough info in his manuals to go by pressure, and determine the correct level by that. I think I just didn't let enough fluid come back out after it got up to temp, since I was so worried about capping it off, and not burning my self any more then I already had.

Unfortunately my trans was on the way out anyway, and really needs to be replaced or rebuilt at this point. I haven't taken this next step yet. I probably should have jumped on the rebuilt one that Galaxy Jaguar had for sale last year, but didn't. Come spring, when I can move the car around a bit easier, I may try and find someplace that will rebuild at a reasonable cost. The mechanic mentioned above, tried calling around, and didn't have any suggestions on people who would wanted to work on it except the Jag dealer, about 50 miles away (and paying dealer prices). I've also tried calling a few places, but really need to try a few more.

Surprised I saw this, I don't check back as often as I was doing last summer.

Good luck

 

Hey Brother...
Would ya be so kind as to link that thread,,, when ya can?

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...re-ids-173922/

Post #14 is where I start hijacking the thread.

 

Wow, sorry to hear that. I figured mine was just overfilled, it DID seem to take in a lot more than it was supposed to. It just never got done leaking even after it was too low! I've got the pan off now, going to try it again, going to go with the Mercon this time, already wasted $130 of fluid in this last fiasco, hope I have better luck next time. At least I'll have pretty much changed all the fluid by then.

Meanwhile, I ran across this last night, LoganR really praised these guys; https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...s-type-173743/

I checked out their website, they're on the west coast. A remanned (as opposed to "rebuilt") for ours I think went a little over $1725 plus a $1500 refundable core. Didn't think that sounded bad, I'm thinking they might be able to set you up with a reputable shop near you to pull and ship the trans.

 

Finally getting ready to do the fluid/filter change...finally.....anyways where can I find the diagram for the valve body bolt torquing sequence?

Thanks.

 

Great documentation here: CTSC FAQs

 

This is how Don B recommends doing the pan bolts:

"The pan gasket and transmission gasket mating surface should be clean and dry before the pan is installed. I torque the screws in about 3 steps, following the spiral pattern each time: first, by hand until I feel the gasket just begin to compress, then with the torque wrench to about 1/2 of the full specified torque, then to the full specified torque. I then go around the perimeter checking the torque of each screw to be sure none have moved".

Since he has done this procedure many times I will use his methodology when I do mine hopefully soon.