[quote=walt_00XKRConv;462327]
It could be that the threads were crossed at initial install (with a power driver) which would render any removal efforts useless as it is effectively welded in place.

quote]

Walt,

I do not believe the plug was cross threaded on my pump. When the machinist removed the remains of the plug with a reversing bit, it screwed right out. The threads on the pump (and the removed plug) were perfect. In fact I was able to use the pump threads to complete installation of the device. No leaks. All is well after one year.

Jack

 

[quote=BlkCat;462370]That's good info. Based on this I think heat, properly applied, is the solution to the stuck plug. Steel parts threaded into aluminum is always a dicey situation. I think back to my days rebuilding the VW engines. I either couldn't get the bolts out or couldn't get them to stay in.

Assuming the red stuff is Locktite 262, I checked the MSRP and it takes something over 300F to soften it up. I saw a post that recommends 400F which fits with this. An IR temperature sensor is a good way to monitor this. If Locktite is the culprit this would do the trick. Maybe some of the pumps got a heavier dose. I would use a hot air gun with a small nozzle although I saw a post that recommended a soldering iron.

Also, sorry for my confusion regarding the roof problem. There have been a number of people who have had the problem of hanging after the latch has released. I am pretty sure this is caused by the switch in the latch mechanism that doesn't signal the controller. The first step in dealing with this is to clean and lubricate. WD40 is particularly good with switches and a dry lube with the rest of that Rube Goldberg contraption.

 

You may have sorted this but try an old trick. I use an ancient copper soldering bit, the sort you heat with a blow torch. Get it really hot (green flame) and push it firmly onto the plug.
Then use what we call an 'American Screwdriver" - a small cold chisel - and a moderately heavy hammer to turn the plug. Ususally works

 

Using an impact driver accomplishes the same results better... There are spiral grooves cut in the handle, and when it is impacted with a hammer, they cause the screwdriver tip to twist in a counterclockwise direction.

You get the impact, plus the twist-off together for maximum effect.

 

But he's got nothing to turn now. All he can do is try to catch the edge of the plug.
There IS another solution which is to forget the plug (it is just a tap into the high pressure feed of the pump), replace the 90° connector supplying one of the hydraulic feed lines (probably the one next to the recalcitrant plug) with a tee and attach hose 1 to that. Just the same result.

 

I'm not sure this would work. The pump works in both directions, and any given hose or fitting is on the high pressure side when pumping in one direction, but on the return side when pumping in the other direction.

 

Good point - I don't know enough to argue. Are you saying the pump motor reverses? I've never heard of such a thing (but that doesn't mean Jaguar can't manage it!)
Surely the dreaded plug is just part of the high pressure manifold.
If you're right then the pressure seen at the plug would be high one way and low the other.
There must be solenoid valves to send the high pressure to the relevant side of the rams, I can't see how it could work otherwise.

 

Yessir, the pump does indeed turn in both directions. All the fittings and hoses do reverse roles ... high-pressure / return.

There has to be some sort of mechanism or configuration internal to the pump that causes the pump body, at the spot the plug is located, to always be on the high pressure side, but I don't know how that is done.

There are solenoids present; one to direct fluid to the "raise/lower top" circuit, the other to the "open/close latch" circuit.

 

Dear God, The Devil Incarnate is on Earth and in my boot (trunk).
How could anyone pretending to be an engineer commit such an obscenity.
I shall immediately proceed to consume large quantities of French Red Medicine to avoid further psychological damage.

 

This system was designed in Europe by PowerPackers Power-Packer Europa - Europe

As for the pump it does work the motor in both directions to perform the up and down operation. This link will give you the operating oneline for the car along with charts on the pressures associated with the operation. I hope it helps.

 

If the broken part of the torque bit can be removed I would try to use an easy-out bolt/screw extractor. With a little heat and the right size extractor it could come right out.

Extractor Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more
Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

Gordo I do not have the Impact Driver but it is on my list of things to get.

 

Gus, I can't seem to find the info on the pump function in the PowerPacker link.
Am I being silly?

 

The pump information is not on the link to PowerPackers I forgot to add the other link.

Pressure charts JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

The wiring diagram http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepa...eline99xk8.pdf

 

Dennis, are you sure this is the case?

I was having a poke around mine recently and I see the pump is only anchored with two bolts on the one side and sits on rubber mounts on the other.
This would indicate that it rotates in the same direction all the time otherwise it would tend to lift off the mount in one direction.

Just a thought that was bothering me.

 

A pump that works in both directions? As in its rotation is reversed to achieve a different result? Just how in the heck does that work and why would anyone engineer something so bassackward? Centrifugal pumps provide pressure in one direction because they only work efficiently in one direction. Piston pumps only push in one direction no matter what rotation because they employ one-way check valves. The valving beyond the pump is opened and closed in order to achieve desired results.

I admit I haven't kept up with the entire thread and I'm jumping in here at the end, but...

 

Hi, Norri

Yeah, I think it's pretty well nailed down that the pump does indeed turn in both directions. Just a thought or two about this for tonight -- I'm on the fly -- we can kick around tomorrow if you wish.

The schematics make clear that the voltage to the pump gets reversed at different stages of the raise / lower top cycles. There is no reason (maybe better to say none I can see) to do this other than to reverse the direction of the pump, of the fluid flow.

The hydraulic circuits are consistent with this, and the only valving is a pair of solenoids that direct fluid to either the ram circuits or the latch circuit but do not change the direction of flow. These circuits are push-pull arrangements in both cases. In other words, push fluid this way to (for example) close the latch; push it the reverse way to open the latch.

The anchoring of the pump ... as I recall there is rubber on all four points (it has to be isolated to permit the voltage polarity to be reversed) but I don't recall anything that indicated the pump would not be supported rotating either way. Maybe you saw something I did not.

How do you see it?

 

Dennis is right on the money. This pump both pushes and pulls.

 

I did forget about swash plate pumps but a) there's no reason to reverse their rotation and b) there would be no reason to use one in this application. However, a little googling shows there are quite a few reversible pumps out there. Most seem to be low-power/low-flow types but I may not be looking thoroughly. It would answer my doubts to efficiency. See: SPX Fenner Reversible Hydraulic Pump Testing, Hooked to a White's Hydraulic Wheel Motor. - YouTube then: ENERPAC -* HYDRAULIC, OHS INC. COMPANIES SINCE 1953, ENERPAC, BVA, HEIN-WERNER, POWER PACKER, POWER TEAM, RAM-PAC, TK SIMPLEX. for a dealer/repair shop that handles PowerPacker, et al.

 

I think the original 'design' came from Holland. It does look like something produced while smoking herbal tobacco.
It does definitely reverse but there's no external torque if you think about it so it doesn't need anything more than location from the mountings.
The whole setup is awful.
Why didn't they run steel brake line type pipes under the chassis with short flexibles where needed. That's how all normal hydraulic machinery does it.
The flows are so small (particularly to the front latch) that you could get away with very fine bore tube.

 

Thanks guys, I guess that clears that up, it was just a niggle I had.

So it looks like the mounting is as poorly designed as the rest of the system.