The Results of the XK8 & XKR Hydraulic Hose & Equipment Evaluation
Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 47
Likes: 7
From: Washington State
I have an 03 XK8.I live 50 miles north of Seattle and the car is always garaged. The previous owner lived in Seattle and had the car garaged both at home and at work. He bought the car in January 05. Prior to that the car was in Florida for 18 months. I am pretty certain that the latch hoses have never been replaced.
Anyone willing to give me a guess as to my chances of avoiding a hose failure given the mild climate here ( Current temp is 52F with 2+ inches of rain in the last 2 days!) and that the car lives indoors.
I am sure that you will all recomend the LSI kit anyway and I am leaning that way somewhat.
Thanks Walt and Gus for your work.
Anyone willing to give me a guess as to my chances of avoiding a hose failure given the mild climate here ( Current temp is 52F with 2+ inches of rain in the last 2 days!) and that the car lives indoors.
I am sure that you will all recomend the LSI kit anyway and I am leaning that way somewhat.
Thanks Walt and Gus for your work.
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,431
Likes: 573
From: Los Angeles
Go for the kit--good insurance. After having my hoses replaced by the dealer I was somewhat hesitant to be operating the top. At about the same time Gus/Walt came out with the kit. So I bought and installed on and do not feel nearly as nervous now about using the convertible.
Doug
Doug
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 47
Likes: 3
From: Oahu, Hawaii
You can probably inspect the hoses at the point that they connect to the top latch, relatively easily by removing a few screws that hold the top header cover and the latch assembly on (ref to Gus's website instructions).
This would give you some insight as to the condition of your hoses. When my hose blew it happened right where the hose goes into the fitting that screws into the latch assembly. I believe that this is the same for most failures.
The condition of both hoses was poor; the black outer coating was brittle and flaking off along the area that is exposed to high temp (along the header above the windshield) which I believe is a tell tale sign of imminent failure.
I think that the conditions that you have described (garage kept, cooler climate) may prolong the life of the hoses, but for how long ????
The LSI kit will undoubtedly help prolong the life as well.
This would give you some insight as to the condition of your hoses. When my hose blew it happened right where the hose goes into the fitting that screws into the latch assembly. I believe that this is the same for most failures.
The condition of both hoses was poor; the black outer coating was brittle and flaking off along the area that is exposed to high temp (along the header above the windshield) which I believe is a tell tale sign of imminent failure.
I think that the conditions that you have described (garage kept, cooler climate) may prolong the life of the hoses, but for how long ????
The LSI kit will undoubtedly help prolong the life as well.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 533
Likes: 45
From: Bellevue, WA
I have an 03 XK8.I live 50 miles north of Seattle and the car is always garaged. The previous owner lived in Seattle and had the car garaged both at home and at work. He bought the car in January 05. Prior to that the car was in Florida for 18 months. I am pretty certain that the latch hoses have never been replaced.
Anyone willing to give me a guess as to my chances of avoiding a hose failure given the mild climate here ( Current temp is 52F with 2+ inches of rain in the last 2 days!) and that the car lives indoors.
I am sure that you will all recomend the LSI kit anyway and I am leaning that way somewhat.
Thanks Walt and Gus for your work.
Anyone willing to give me a guess as to my chances of avoiding a hose failure given the mild climate here ( Current temp is 52F with 2+ inches of rain in the last 2 days!) and that the car lives indoors.
I am sure that you will all recomend the LSI kit anyway and I am leaning that way somewhat.
Thanks Walt and Gus for your work.
I also want to second the thanks to Walt and Gus.
Cheers,
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 533
Likes: 45
From: Bellevue, WA
Big time thanks to Gus!
I recently completed the "Green Shower Avoidance Mod" and cannot express how grateful I am to Gus for making those super-helpul pictures and instructions available to us. THANKS A TON MAN!!
Cheers,
Cheers,
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 33
From: Monument Colorado
Changed hydraulic fluid and installed pressure relief
The system was tested to find out what pressure is required to operate the roof. This involved taking a pump apart to find out how it works, installing a pressure sensor in the system, and coming up with a design that can be easily installed DIY. The relief valve kit dumps any flow that occurs above this pressure back to the tank. The system does not have a built in pressure relief so when the cylinders hit the end of travel the pressure builds to the maximum that the pump can deliver. You can see this in the graphs taken from the data logger that Gus has published. The excessive pressure is 500-600 psi above what is required to operate the roof system.
My company is buying the calibrated valves in bulk from the factory. If for some reason the roof does not operated properly the valve can be adjusted. The hoses are rated at 6000psi and are the highest quality possible. Nothing was spared in that regard. A full DIY instruction will be available on our web site later today. This is all just hitting the street.
The operate time is not affected. It takes around 3 seconds to open and about 17 seconds to close more or less. The graphs came from my car and some variability is to be expected based on temperature, battery voltage, and phase of the moon.
The system self purges so there is no need to bleed off trapped air. Very little oil is lost during the install if the instructions are followed.
There is no need to change hoses unless the car has Nylaflow hoses to the latch. Nylaflow hoses were used up to a certain date when it was discovered that they fall apart in the high temperature conditions at the latch. The Polyflex replacement does not have this problem. This upgrade reduces the stress on the system by 33% so the hoses will be on easy street. I have been in contact with Parker, who made the custom hose for Power Packer, and that hose (product #363) has been discontinued. This means that the factory hose will not be available at some point very soon. Gus and I are looking into making a replacement available, but I doubt that a reliable splice hose will be possible, so only a full length hose will be feasible (in my opinion). The fittings must exactly match the dimensions of the hose (ID and OD) and the special hose used in the car does not match up with any of the commercially available hose fittings according to Parker. We have not been able to find a fitting that would be reliable for a DIY install.
Please feel free to contact me directly with any additional questions.
My company is buying the calibrated valves in bulk from the factory. If for some reason the roof does not operated properly the valve can be adjusted. The hoses are rated at 6000psi and are the highest quality possible. Nothing was spared in that regard. A full DIY instruction will be available on our web site later today. This is all just hitting the street.
The operate time is not affected. It takes around 3 seconds to open and about 17 seconds to close more or less. The graphs came from my car and some variability is to be expected based on temperature, battery voltage, and phase of the moon.
The system self purges so there is no need to bleed off trapped air. Very little oil is lost during the install if the instructions are followed.
There is no need to change hoses unless the car has Nylaflow hoses to the latch. Nylaflow hoses were used up to a certain date when it was discovered that they fall apart in the high temperature conditions at the latch. The Polyflex replacement does not have this problem. This upgrade reduces the stress on the system by 33% so the hoses will be on easy street. I have been in contact with Parker, who made the custom hose for Power Packer, and that hose (product #363) has been discontinued. This means that the factory hose will not be available at some point very soon. Gus and I are looking into making a replacement available, but I doubt that a reliable splice hose will be possible, so only a full length hose will be feasible (in my opinion). The fittings must exactly match the dimensions of the hose (ID and OD) and the special hose used in the car does not match up with any of the commercially available hose fittings according to Parker. We have not been able to find a fitting that would be reliable for a DIY install.
Please feel free to contact me directly with any additional questions.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 149
Likes: 10
From: Arizona
Much appreciate the thorough research and the easy to follow photos. I learn more than I ever did with the Jag dealer. I am planning to order and install the kit - even after the dealer (who charged me $3500) claimed he fixed the green rain, there is a slow leak on the drivers side door column (right above the hood latch).
Over the past year I have worked endlessly to provide a solution related to the problem of the rupturing hydraulic hoses for the xk8 convertible top. Several months later after receiving many hoses I worked to develop a hose that would accept the pressure and temperature. Soon after I received a latch that had evidence of the seal being dislodged causing a leak. Shortly after that the lifts were failing at what I thought was an alarming rate. I began to think that several other latches were failing just did not know how many or why. Well at the same time Tom (TestPoint) had a pump that he was willing to give away to a good home. Well I did all I could to get my hands on it and in a few days I got it in the mail. During that time I had several conversations with Walt (Walt Nuschke 00XKR Conv) about the pump and the new findings related to the seals in the latch and lifts. Seeing Walt was better qualified in the evaluation I sent the pump to him. You can see his findings on my page, I will provide a link below. Walt has since developed a device to be installed at the pump that will reduce the operating pressure to the entire roof operating system. We feel that this reduction in operation pressure will dramatically reduce and in most cases eliminate the frequency of hose, latch and lift failures. Because we are unable to predict the life of the existing system in your car we are reluctant to say you will never have another leak.
I am so confident about this device I installed it in my car! I am also going to end my quest to finding a solution to the hyd hose problem because this is it. I want to thank everyone for their input and patience when dealing with me. And thank you Chick & Ron for the hose and Tom for the old pump & Walt for the Hydraulic pressure relief valve and the many people that provided parts for evaluation!
http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepairJ...esRelValve.htm To see the pressure valve and how to get it and links to the hose evaluation, hose replacement and new hose. I am not making a penny from this product. I am however, placing this information for the person that wants and needs it.
A great deal of unselfish time and effort went into the research and development of the roof operation information that was used in the design and development of the new hose and new pressure relief valve.
When I took this project on I told those involved I would stay on it until the end and I did just that!
This post should not be taken as an advertisement in any way. It is to say that this project is completed.
Gus
I am so confident about this device I installed it in my car! I am also going to end my quest to finding a solution to the hyd hose problem because this is it. I want to thank everyone for their input and patience when dealing with me. And thank you Chick & Ron for the hose and Tom for the old pump & Walt for the Hydraulic pressure relief valve and the many people that provided parts for evaluation!
http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepairJ...esRelValve.htm To see the pressure valve and how to get it and links to the hose evaluation, hose replacement and new hose. I am not making a penny from this product. I am however, placing this information for the person that wants and needs it.
A great deal of unselfish time and effort went into the research and development of the roof operation information that was used in the design and development of the new hose and new pressure relief valve.
When I took this project on I told those involved I would stay on it until the end and I did just that!
This post should not be taken as an advertisement in any way. It is to say that this project is completed.
Gus
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 179
Likes: 19
From: Vienna, Va
Sorry to hear about your continuing leak. I had the dealer replace my failed hydraulic line (2003 XKR) with the repair kit which also failed. A slow leak in the same spot that you mention. I finally had the entire line replaced and also installed the pressure relief valve. I'm afaird that your dealer used a repair kit which is no longer recommended for use. I gave Gus my failed repair kit hoses as part of his efforts to investigate a permanennt solution. I'm sure Gus can give you further information.
Good Luck
BobF
Good Luck
BobF
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,431
Likes: 573
From: Los Angeles
Much appreciate the thorough research and the easy to follow photos. I learn more than I ever did with the Jag dealer. I am planning to order and install the kit - even after the dealer (who charged me $3500) claimed he fixed the green rain, there is a slow leak on the drivers side door column (right above the hood latch).
It sound like the dealer installed the splice kit rather than the complete hose. What else could possibly result in leaks in the A-pillar?
Doug
That is the way it sounds to me. If it is leaking and the kit / hose was installed recently I would go back to the dealership and see what they have to say. From what I can remember Jaguar pulled the kits knowing that they had a high failure rate.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 149
Likes: 10
From: Arizona
Pressure relief kit on back order
Thank you all - I think that's right - but it was three years ago and they have closed that dealership.
FYI I ordered the kit yesterday and received an email saying the fitting is back ordered.
I will look again at the 6+ hour project that Gus undertook to replace the entire hose - anyone know a good Jag mechanic in Phoenix?
Kal
FYI I ordered the kit yesterday and received an email saying the fitting is back ordered.
I will look again at the 6+ hour project that Gus undertook to replace the entire hose - anyone know a good Jag mechanic in Phoenix?
Kal
Anyone with the tools and a little mechanical ability can do this. The big drawback it the time involved. Find someone to help and offer them dinner you will get it done and have company in the process. Just remember that misery loves company.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 427
Likes: 48
From: US
My mechanically inclined friend is going to help me. Can't wait to get it and install it so I can use the top sort of worry free.
Jack
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 149
Likes: 10
From: Arizona
This is the best part of convertible time in the Southwest! However, if its a couple of weeks, I will survive.
Gus - Re the splice on the drivers side, is there a way to repair the hose there rather than replace the entire hose? Or is the pressure so high that any fitting will just pop off?
Thanks
Kal
Gus - Re the splice on the drivers side, is there a way to repair the hose there rather than replace the entire hose? Or is the pressure so high that any fitting will just pop off?
Thanks
Kal
I spent a little over a year trying to make one work and most all the people I talked to about splices did not want to have a thing to do with it. After my full investigation on the hose and the pump pressures I elected to can the idea. Hoses failing and seals failing at the lifts and latch splices were doomed to fail. As for the existing splice it has a right and wrong way to install it either way it is doomed. I personally installed one two times because of leaks and in another car one time then the entire line was replaced. The pressure valve has eliminated the excessive pressure but understand that the system is still operating at 1000psi and I personally feel the splice will still fail. I hope I answered your question. Sorry for the rambling but a little tired, it has been a long day.
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 41
Likes: 6
From: California
Fantastic job on all of the work done on this problem.
So I had the green drips out of my speaker grill at the end of last summer. Well, summer is on it's way again so it's time to fix it.
What is the final verdict on the replacement hoses? Get the Jag parts or has a better replacement been found?
If the fittings are unique can an adapter be made and then standard size, braided steel hoses be used?
So I had the green drips out of my speaker grill at the end of last summer. Well, summer is on it's way again so it's time to fix it.
What is the final verdict on the replacement hoses? Get the Jag parts or has a better replacement been found?
If the fittings are unique can an adapter be made and then standard size, braided steel hoses be used?
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,431
Likes: 573
From: Los Angeles
The fact that this has been a chronic problem with these cars that was never properly addressed by Jaguar is amazing enough. But, come on, how difficult could it be to have designed a decent splice kit. You can't tell me that hydraulic lines are never successfully spliced so what is the big mystery about developing a decent kit? Whatever the cost of the parts it would be infinitely preferable to tearing out the entire interior to run full length hoses.
Doug
Doug